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Class 345 progress

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JonathanH

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They seem to be using the tunnels alternately bidirectionally so one train will use the 'platform A' tunnels to & from TCR whilst the other will use the 'platform B' tunnels.
Some of the runs are from Tottenham Court Road to & from the Westbourne Park carriage sidings - will this be to test the auto-reverse feature of the CBTC?

Simon
Do the trains actually run to the schedules in RTT? The whole route from Acton into the tunnels is under possession whilst this is happening so they presumably have some flexibility as to what actually happens.

In other class 345 news, the number of failures on Heathrow services seems not to be relenting. They lost a number of workings yesterday and the first round trip to the airport this morning only got as far as Southall on its return leg.
 
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JN114

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Predominantly ETCS issues, although 9P01 this morning was a Pantograph fault.

NR Western have implemented a “3 strikes” policy per unit, if an individual unit has 3 separate ETCS issues they will pressure MTR to remove the unit from traffic and replace it.

The first traffic hours runs of 387s over the branch and there’s been no such issues, so it really does look to be 345-related
 

Horizon22

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I read yesterday that FLU 345s have the worst MTIN (miles per technical incident) of ANY stock in the UK. It's a pitifully low (bad) number. Multiple ETCS or DOO problems daily or any other fault you care to mention. Good thing they aren't running in the tunnels which would block all traffic...
 

JonathanH

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Looks like there is overnight testing to Reading scheduled this week, the first time since 4 September. There appear to be three schedules.

This one appears to come off 9P45 2322 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington as the usual path to Old Oak Depot is cancelled.
5Z13 0002 London Paddington to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F00021/2020-10-13/detailed
5Z14 0122 Reading to London Paddington
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F00022/2020-10-13/detailed
5Z15 0210 London Paddington to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F00023/2020-10-13/detailed

A second unit works
5Z16 0035 Old Oak Depot to London Paddington
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F00024/2020-10-13/detailed
5Z17 0059 London Paddington to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F00025/2020-10-13/detailed
5Z18 0150 Reading to London Paddington
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F00026/2020-10-13/detailed
5Z19 0240 London Paddington to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F00027/2020-10-13/detailed

However, another unit appears to be running (early) on another schedule, closer to the one which ran in early September.
5Zxx 2316 Old Oak Depot to London Paddington
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C25984/2020-10-12/detailed
5Z81 2336 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington Loop
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/63193/2020-10-12/detailed
5Z82 2356 Hayes & Harlington Loop to Paddington
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/63196/2020-10-12/detailed
5Zxx 0052 London Paddington to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C25987/2020-10-13/detailed
5Zxx 0147 Reading to London Paddington
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C25988/2020-10-13/detailed
5Zxx 0247 London Paddington to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C25989/2020-10-13/detailed
5Zxx 0411 Reading to London Paddington
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C25990/2020-10-13/detailed
5Zxx 0506 London Paddington to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C25991/2020-10-13/detailed

All three of these worked with the last one progressively running earlier through the night.
 
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samuelmorris

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Not that long ago I was on a 315 service from Shenfield. I believe they still work peak time Shenfield services, just probably not any off peak diagrams any more.
 

306024

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Some dodgy info there. 315s still work off peak Shenfield services Monday to Friday at the moment. The December timetable change sees them relegated to peak only workings, plus a bit after the evening peak, but nothing off peak and at weekends.
 

MatthewRead

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Some dodgy info there. 315s still work off peak Shenfield services Monday to Friday at the moment. The December timetable change sees them relegated to peak only workings, plus a bit after the evening peak, but nothing off peak and at weekends.
They've been used on weekday peak only diagrams since last September!
 

306024

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They've been used on weekday peak only diagrams since last September!

Some diagrams are peak only, and always have been as you only need half the fleet to run the off peak timetable. But they are still used on some diagrams that run all day Monday to Friday, and will continue to do so until the December timetable change.
 

JonathanH

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Reading testing of 9-car units appears to be continuing overnight this week - running from Old Oak Depot to Reading then two return trips to Paddington and back before going to Old Oak Depot (5Z21-5Z26, 5Z51-5Z56). Daytime testing to Heathrow also continues.

A Class 37 appears to have arrived at Old Oak Depot this morning but the only schedule shown appears to be it leaving on Saturday morning, so not clear what the purpose is at the moment.

Still some delays to Heathrow services - today, one spent 10 minutes at Ealing Broadway and another picked up 13 minutes delay at Heathrow Central. 387 training runs seem to be going well though.
 

kevin_roche

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For those who are wondering when the full train service to Heathrow will be likely to be run. The latest available Jacobs Project Representative Report for 2020/1 Period-5 has just been published and has some news on the plans for 345 train services to Heathrow on the last page (page 6). It already quite outdated as it covers the period 26 July 2020 to 22 August 2020.


Introduction of a Class 345 2TPH service to Heathrow, followed by the 4TPH service, is delayed due to train control software issues. To release the current Class 360 fleet from continuing to operate passenger services, MTREL has agreed to implement the Class 345 2TPH service by mid-September 2020, with operational mitigations to manage risk. However, implementation of the 4TPH service depends on the software issues resolution, which may not be until mid-November 2020.
 
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JonathanH

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While it absolutely doesn't represent a definitive source, the current 2tph Heathrow / 2tph Hayes timetable is in the open data feeds until 27 November with unadjusted WTT schedules after that so it seems likely that implementation of the 4tph timetable to Heathrow is continuing to slip. As noted before, there still seems to be at least one issue each day with the Heathrow operations.

Reading 9-car testing continues overnight tonight (with one of the units coming off Heathrow services). No sign of daytime testing to Reading resuming yet although there are empty runs to Heathrow (5Z01-5Z06, 5Z07-5Z12) ongoing.

EDIT: 2tph Heathrow extended for at least another week since I wrote the above.

Interestingly, there appears to be testing at Heathrow under a possession this evening for a second Friday / Saturday overnight.

This seems to involve a locomotive dragging a 345 to Hayes & Harlington Loop on this working 2242 Old Oak Depot to Hayes & Harlington Loop https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00223/2020-10-30/detailed, the unit going to Heathrow Terminal 4 after close of service on 0022 Hayes & Harlington Loop to Heathrow Airport Terminal 4 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00150/2020-10-31/detailed operating under a possession and then returning on 0415 Heathrow Airport Terminal 4 to Hayes & Harlington Loop https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00151/2020-10-31/detailed to be dragged on 0515 Hayes & Harlington Loop to Old Oak Depot https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00224/2020-10-31/detailed.
 
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dmncf

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kevin_roche

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Realtime Trains shows that Class 345s will do test runs between Old Oak Common and Farringdon this Sunday 1 November in the afternoon: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/PDX/2020-11-01/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt


Edit: Testing is underway today. Here's a Class 345 emerging from the tunnel at Westbourne Park, running 'wrong line'. Another Class 345 emerged a few minutes later running on the correct line.

View attachment 85371

Thank you for the photo. I was hoping to go and see if I could spot one myself but could no go out in the end.

Can you (or anyone else) explain why real-time trains have a time shown for arrival and departure even before it happens?
 

samuelmorris

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JonathanH

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I see that on SWR quite a lot. The train shows as having arrived at the station at the normal time, 5 minutes before it has reached there, or it is actually that time of day. I assume it's something to do with the reporting system feed in that area.
They are only reporting at Ladbroke Grove and Portobello Junction in any case. The bit in the tunnel does not report.
 

rebmcr

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Here's a Class 345 emerging from the tunnel at Westbourne Park, running 'wrong line'.

Is there even such a thing as 'wrong line' under CBTC? As I understand it, the Movement Authority is golden, kinglike, immune to any other rules.
 

JN114

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Is there even such a thing as 'wrong line' under CBTC? As I understand it, the Movement Authority is golden, kinglike, immune to any other rules.

Even under CBTC each line has a nominal direction. It is wrong line in that sense, as opposed to a wrong direction movement, which is a very different kettle of fish in the rulebook.
 

kevin_roche

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ijmad

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Even under CBTC each line has a nominal direction. It is wrong line in that sense, as opposed to a wrong direction movement, which is a very different kettle of fish in the rulebook.

Would really confuse the passengers if the system routed trains randomly in both directions :D
 

JonathanH

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Reports elsewhere that 345046 was (re)delivered from Old Dalby to Old Oak Depot yesterday.
 

JonathanH

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Anyone seen a update of how the core testing is going with the 345?
Is core testing, while clearly important, even the primary concern at the moment given that the line won't be open for at least eighteen months? It appears ongoing - wasn't the idea that there are a huge number of scenarios to work through as and when there is access to the tunnels? There appear to be periodic swaps of the units involved to and from Old Oak Depot so it hasn't stopped.

It would be good to see them working successfully on Heathrow services first. Two trips lost yesterday due to 345s being taken out of service (although many run without delay).
9P61 1252 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington lost ten minutes at Airport Junction with the unit being taken out of service on arrival at Paddington with the next round trip uncovered.
9P85 1552 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington didn't run. The unit going empty to Old Oak Depot with a replacement for its next trip from Paddington.
9P93 1652 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington was seven minutes late from Airport Junction
9P29 2122 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington was fourteen minutes late from Heathrow Terminal 5 with a knock on impact on the next service from Paddington

Overnight testing to Reading has continued this week and seems to be timetabled for next week too.

It appears that once again, same as 30/31 October and two weeks previous, testing tonight at Heathrow involves a unit being dragged to Hayes & Harlington Loop then a possession on the Heathrow branch. Presumably the unit involved has some kind of upgrade that means it can't operate under its own power between the depot and the Heathrow branch? It would be interesting to know what this is about. It seems to be the third time this has happened - almost as if there is currently a two week testing schedule in place on the main line side of the test plan.

0V73 1730 Leicester L.I.P. to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/71986/2020-11-13/detailed
2242 Old Oak Depot to Hayes & Harlington Loop
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03021/2020-11-13/detailed
0028 Hayes & Harlington Loop to Heathrow Airport Terminal 4
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00150/2020-11-14/detailed
0415 Heathrow Airport Terminal 4 to Hayes & Harlington Loop
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00151/2020-11-14/detailed
0515 Hayes & Harlington Loop to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03022/2020-11-14/detailed
0712 Old Oak Depot to Wembley H.S.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R03363/2020-11-14/detailed

7-car operation very much still in place on the west side to Reading / Hayes & Harlington. No daytime testing of 9-cars to Reading has happened yet, despite the overnight trips there for the last five weeks.
 

rebmcr

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It appears that once again, same as 30/31 October and two weeks previous, testing tonight at Heathrow involves a unit being dragged to Hayes & Harlington Loop then a possession on the Heathrow branch. Presumably the unit involved has some kind of upgrade that means it can't operate under its own power between the depot and the Heathrow branch? It would be interesting to know what this is about.
Judging by the most recent London Assembly information, it seems very likely to be experimental version(s) of the next signalling software (P_D+13 I think), which will need testing before being mainline certified.
 
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