Class 350/1 refurbishment

[py_megapixel]

WMT are handing the 350/2s back to Porterbrook, and Porterbrook want them in an almost "as-new" condition.

Sounds entirely pointless to me. There's no future lease planned for them so could they not be done after return to Porterbrok, even if WM Trains are paying for it?

 

[adc82140]

Idle speculation: I wonder if Porterbrook have plans for them?

 

[RealTrains07]

Technically they do. Battery conversion

How many 350/1s units have the full LNR livery and how many have the undercoat?

 

[59CosG95]

Sounds entirely pointless to me. There's no future lease planned for them so could they not be done after return to Porterbrok, even if WM Trains are paying for it?

The conditions of the lease say that they need to be handed back spotless. And WMT wanted rid of the /2s *because* they were Porterbrook-owned, opting to have a fleet owned only by Angel Trains.

 

[DannyMich2018]

WMT are handing the 350/2s back to Porterbrook, and Porterbrook want them in an almost "as-new" condition.

Fair enough. Just hope someone takes these on cause be a waste to store (relatively) new trains.

 

[DBS92042]

350112 now in full LNWR colours as well. Just seen it paired with 350402

 

[59CosG95]

i believe 6. they are 109, 111, 120, 122, 127 and 128. do correct me if neccesary!

350122 appears to have been refurbished. https://flic.kr/p/2juYZKd

 

[XCTurbostar]

I'm not sure if its been pointed out yet but it looks like;
350101 has 'Double Shift Train' with the words "I also work in the West Midlands" on the Driving end coaches.
350102 has "I'm seeing other passengers" with the words "I also work in the West Midlands" on the Driving end coaches.




It doesn't look like any of the repainted 350/3s or 350/4s have these stickers.

 

[Wolfie]

Sounds entirely pointless to me. There's no future lease planned for them so could they not be done after return to Porterbrok, even if WM Trains are paying for it?

There may be some legal implications if the contract is varied. Perhaps an unwelcome precedent (e.g. a timing issue where a TOC can put off refurbs during their lease time).

 

[OTRail]

I'm not sure if its been pointed out yet but it looks like;
350101 has 'Double Shift Train' with the words "I also work in the West Midlands" on the Driving end coaches.
350102 has "I'm seeing other passengers" with the words "I also work in the West Midlands" on the Driving end coaches.

View attachment 82556View attachment 82557

It doesn't look like any of the repainted 350/3s or 350/4s have these stickers.

Are these on the other liveried /1s?

 

[Energy]

There may be some legal implications if the contract is varied. Perhaps an unwelcome precedent (e.g. a timing issue where a TOC can put off refurbs during their lease time).

Porterbrook may also charge more to Abellio in other leases expecting its other trains to be in a poor state.

 

[221101 Voyager]

I'm not sure if its been pointed out yet but it looks like;
350101 has 'Double Shift Train' with the words "I also work in the West Midlands" on the Driving end coaches.
350102 has "I'm seeing other passengers" with the words "I also work in the West Midlands" on the Driving end coaches.

View attachment 82556
View attachment 82557

It doesn't look like any of the repainted 350/3s or 350/4s have these stickers.

These are only on full livery LNWR 350/1s,

I've seen -

350101 with "Double Shift Train I also work in the West Midlands"

350102 "I'm seeing other passengers I also work in the West Midlands" (This one sounds like the train is having some sort of affair!?)

350103 with "Double Life Train, I also work in the West Midlands"

350104 with "Second Home Train I also work in the West Midlands"

350112 with "Twin Sister Train I also work in the West Midlands"

350125 with "Twin Brother Train I also work in the West Midlands"

I've seen others but can't recall the unit nos.
These extra WM labels are a distinguising feature of the /1s but what is the point of them? The only people who notice or care are only trainspotters like myself and others.

 

[Nym]

Because of the need to have branding on everything?

 

[trundlewagon]

Perhaps been some feedback from customers about a bit of confusion when a London Northwestern train turns up on a West Midlands Railway service?

 

[221101 Voyager]

350106 was brifely repainted into LNWR livery with the phrase "Secret Agent Train, I also work in the West Midlands" my photo of it is from August 12th 2019


Then shortly after the vinyls were taken off and it's been plain ever since.

Does anyone know why this happened with 106?

Perhaps been some feedback from customers about a bit of confusion when a London Northwestern train turns up on a West Midlands Railway service?

Possibly. But people should look at timetables and info screens for this. People can't be that stupid surely?! Or maybe they are!

 

[Merle Haggard]

Possibly. But people should look at timetables and info screens for this. People can't be that stupid surely?! Or maybe they are!

It's just possible that someone may have had the past experience of mistakenly boarding a train branded as operated by 'X' with a ticket only valid on company 'Y' and been excessed, and don't want to make that mistake again.

But what are the West Midlands Railway services that the 350s operate, as far as the public is concerned? I've just been on National Rail Enquiries to check, and every service that's operated by 350's that I can think of are shown as 'get your ticket from London Northwestern Railway', even the Birmingham suburban ones, so the public would expect a London Northwestern train and not a West Midlands Railway one to turn up.

And using NRES, the Northampton departure screen for Northampton - Euston trains shows them as operated by 'West Midlands Railways'.
I don't think it's a sign of stupidity for a passenger to be confused...

 

[221101 Voyager]

It's just possible that someone may have had the past experience of mistakenly boarding a train branded as operated by 'X' with a ticket only valid on company 'Y' and been excessed, and don't want to make that mistake again.

But what are the West Midlands Railway services that the 350s operate, as far as the public is concerned? I've just been on National Rail Enquiries to check, and every service that's operated by 350's that I can think of are shown as 'get your ticket from London Northwestern Railway', even the Birmingham suburban ones, so the public would expect a London Northwestern train and not a West Midlands Railway one to turn up.

I don’t get why they didn’t just have one brand name like LNWR or WMR not both as this can cause confusion for some I suppose. The WMR livery is overall slightly better than the LNWR livery anyways. I’ve heard the 2 separate brand names are for if they decide to only keep either the LNWR services or the WMR ones when the franchise renewal date comes around.
Is this true?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But what are the West Midlands Railway services that the 350s operate, as far as the public is concerned? I've just been on National Rail Enquiries to check, and every service that's operated by 350's that I can think of are shown as 'get your ticket from London Northwestern Railway', even the Birmingham suburban ones, so the public would expect a London Northwestern train and not a West Midlands Railway one to turn up.

And (further to post above) usine NRES, the Northampton departure screen for Northampton - Euston trains shows them as operated by 'West Midlands Railways'.
I don't think it's a sign of stupidity for a passenger to be confused...

I suspect it's because the WMCA wants their logo on the trains that they're paying a subsidy to.

As for the NRE departure screens, these show "West Midlands Trains", which is the name of the actual franchise company (West Midlands Trains Ltd) rather than its two brands it operates under. It's the equivalent of GTR which is a TOC as distinct from Southern/Thameslink/Great Northern which are brands. They really could have done with giving it a less confusing name, though, anything would have done.

I don’t get why they didn’t just have one brand name like LNWR or WMR not both as this can cause confusion for some I suppose. The WMR livery is overall slightly better than the LNWR livery anyways. I’ve heard the 2 separate brand names are for if they decide to only keep either the LNWR services or the WMR ones when the franchise renewal date comes around.
Is this true?

It's because the original intention is that the two would be split at the next franchise round, allowing the WMCA to issue a local concession for its services in the manner of Merseyrail, and then the LNR bit would either be franchised as a smaller TOC or would be merged into Avanti West Coast. This does seem to have fallen somewhat by the wayside, though, and if anything the two have become more integrated. It's now more like the way services operated by NorthWest Regional Railways carried the "Merseyrail" brand in the late 90s.

 

[OTRail]

But what are the West Midlands Railway services that the 350s operate, as far as the public is concerned? I've just been on National Rail Enquiries to check, and every service that's operated by 350's that I can think of are shown as 'get your ticket from London Northwestern Railway', even the Birmingham suburban ones, so the public would expect a London Northwestern train and not a West Midlands Railway one to turn up.

And using NRES, the Northampton departure screen for Northampton - Euston trains shows them as operated by 'West Midlands Railways'.
I don't think it's a sign of stupidity for a passenger to be confused...

They frequently operate services from Wolverhampton to Walsall via New Street. Also, since Chase Line services no longer serve Euston they are seen as an WMR service instead of an LNR one now.

 

[Merle Haggard]

As for the NRE departure screens, these show "West Midlands Trains", which is the name of the actual franchise company (West Midlands Trains Ltd) rather than its two brands it operates under.

Thanks, sorry I did realise that but made a quick edit (added the last para) and fell into the trap.
Bearing in mind the hostility shown by some Avanti conductors towards 'WMT Only' ticket holders (who may have bought those tickets from 'London Northwestern Railway') the industry really doesn't try to make things comprehensible for its passengers, in my opinion - but I'm sure I'll be told I'm wrong...

They frequently operate services from Wolverhampton to Walsall via New Street. Also, since Chase Line services no longer serve Euston they are seen as an WMR service instead of an LNR one now.

Yes, but if a passenger goes onto NRES to buy a New Street - Walsall ticket, it says 'buy from London Northwestern railway' Same with New St- Wolverhampton.
This is the point I was making - confusion by the industry, not stupidity by the passenger, IMO

 

[py_megapixel]

These extra WM labels are a distinguising feature of the /1s but what is the point of them?

Because of the need to have branding on everything?

The West Midlands Trains branding is specced by the PTE, Transport for the West Midlands (TfWM).
I think it's highly likely that the use of that brand on all relevant services is a condition of either their franchise agreement or of the subsidies they get from TfWM.

The only people who notice or care are only trainspotters like myself and others.

Precisely. I think these tiny little stickers on the driving cars aren't actually to convey any information to the passengers - as you rightly say, they may not notice, and if they do they won't care. I suspect they are more a box-ticking formality to ensure that they are not breaking any contractual obligations.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Just seen newly repainted 350115 on 5N89 from BLY TMD to Northampton with the phrase “Double Date Train, I also work in the West Midlands”.

 

[OTRail]

Yes, but if a passenger goes onto NRES to buy a New Street - Walsall ticket, it says 'buy from London Northwestern railway' Same with New St- Wolverhampton.
This is the point I was making - confusion by the industry, not stupidity by the passenger, IMO

I understand what you mean, station announcements I’ve heard (including at New Street) refer to it as a WMR service.

 

[Spirit555]

350111 off to Long Marston from Wolverton today for corrosion repairs. 37601 doing the honours on 5Q94

Mark

 

[DBS92042]

350111 off to Long Marston from Wolverton today for corrosion repairs. 37601 doing the honours on 5Q94

Mark

Looks like its had some repairs done to the cab end of coach D

350115 has also gained full livery now

 

[Dan15812]

350/1 refurb situation

350101 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350102 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350103 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350104 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350105 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350106 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350107 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350108 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350109 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350110 - Refurbished, LM ‘Project 110’ Livery with LNR branding
350111 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350112 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350113 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350114 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350115 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350116 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350117 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350118 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350119 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350120 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350121 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350122 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350123 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350124 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350125 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350126 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350127 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350128 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350129 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350130 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery

Key:

Normal text = no refurb, LM Livery with LNR branding
Bold text = no refurb, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat or full livery
Green text = refurb, LM Livery with LNR branding
Bold green text = refurb, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat or full livery



Please do keep me updated with any changes and I will update the list!

 

[DBS92042]

Current refurb situation as far as I'm aware...

350101 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350102 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350103 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350104 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350105 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350106 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350107 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350108 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350109 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350110 - Refurbished, LM ‘Project 110’ Livery with LNR branding
350111 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350112 - Unrefurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350113 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350114 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350115 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350116 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350117 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350118 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350119 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350120 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350121 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350122 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350123 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350124 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350125 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR full livery
350126 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350127 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350128 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350129 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350130 - Unrefurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery

Key:

Normal text = no refurb, LM Livery with LNR branding
Bold text = no refurb, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat or full livery
Green text = refurb, LM Livery with LNR branding
Bold green text = refurb, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat or full livery



Please do keep me updated with any changes and I will update the list!

350122 is also in full livery

 

[Dan15812]

Thanks for letting me know!

 

[DBS92042]

Thanks for letting me know!

No problem!

 

[Spirit555]

350128 refurbished, still in LM Livery

Mark