From a few other forums on the internet, the feeling is that some if not all of this order could well be Reading Bound to compliment those either already on order or to come from TSGN - Future total Turbo elimination perhaps, with something shorter for the branches like a D-Train, although the Downs line still needs a solution. But if these are to be ordered as duel voltage...
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WatcherZero
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Dual voltage is a bit of a misnomer, everything is nowadays as its now pretty cheap functionality to offer and increases their resale value.
Indeed increases the float and pretty welcome, couple of times in recent years the financially stronger franchises have sought their own extra rolling stock but this is first time in a decade a rosco has done it for anything other than locomotives.
Indeed increases the float and pretty welcome, couple of times in recent years the financially stronger franchises have sought their own extra rolling stock but this is first time in a decade a rosco has done it for anything other than locomotives.
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Mikey C
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If the rival leasing companies are forced to cut their rates or spend serious money to keep older stock attractive against the newer stock, then that's a good development...
It would be nice is the 12 car platforms on Southeastern Metro services actually got used at some point...
Aren't power supplies the issue there?
Class 466
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Nope, 12 car services already run in the peaks. The lack of spare stock limits it to just a few trains a day.
I would guess that buying the units speculatively for future use on the Down's line is probably quite risky. In that the tender process for the gWr area isn't due to be started until about the same time as the trains are due and electrification will not be starting prior to 2020, although it at least saves NR the issue of what infill electrification to use.
Mikey C
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Was the issue concerning stations with short platforms (e.g. Woolwich Dockyard) and the lack of SDO on the Networkers resolved?
Yes. The 12 coach trains that does run via Woolwich Dockyard don't stop there.
As soon as Crossrail comes in, the freed capacity on the North Kent will mean anything more than 8 (even in Peak on the current timetable) will be overkill.
12 Car, however, for the Bexleyheath and Grove Park all-stoppers, as well as a couple of Hayes trains, is getting really "in demand" and yet only one diagram exists down towards Orpington. Absolutely appalling.
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To be honest, I don't know why King's Lynn is staying as an "Island" anyway. It would be better serviced from Liverpool Street by the Anglia franchise using the Class 379 fleet every 30 minutes.
Arrange the timetable such as there is a "Cambridge Express" from Liverpool Street to King's Lynn calling only at Tottenham Hale, Harlow Town, Bishop's Stortford, Audley End and Cambridge with a headline journey time of just over an hour (admittedly a journey time increase on King's Cross to Cambridge but made up for on the Fen line with the increase in direct journeys). Attach a Stansted Express every 30 minutes (there isn't honestly the need for it given the clientèle and how empty the trains are) calling at Tottenham Hale, Harlow Town, Bishop's Stortford and Stansted Mountfitchet; then two local Cambridge 317s, two Hertford Easts and the Stratford to Bishop's Stortford service extending to Stansted Airport to create the new direct journey opportunities.
If you are then only needing the four Thameslink departures an hour from London to Cambridge; two "all shacks" and two Finsbury, Letchworth and Royston only you can cope with the relevant demand whilst also encouraging more people to use Liverpool Street and the Crossrail connection (and for ease of getting to Stratford) with the faster trains. At peak times, use the additional two paths from Thameslink to make Ely fast trains; slowing the Cambridge fast off-peak paths slightly to include the likes of Baldock. From King's Cross "High Level", have two Royston semi-fast and two Peterborough express paths each hour.
The fleet for those can be the 23 x 377/5 which, assuming maintenance is reasonably light, can be formed up as 7 x 12 Car between 17:10 and 18:40; more than enough.
Given that the 377/2s return from Thameslink to Southern; that creates the fleet of 15 x 377/2 as well as 377/7s for West London. The 700s, including the Peak services to Grinstead / Eastbourne / Three Bridges, will get rid of a need for a lot of units formed up as 3 x 4 so the 377/5s shouldn't be sorely missed given that 9 units will come back from Thameslink.
Slide across the 36 x 376 fleet from Southeastern to Southern for the 10 Car Metro services, this frees up the 455s for other things (Coastway or South West); and permits the 40 x 365 to move to Southeastern. The 35 x 465/9 then move to Southeastern Metro. Southeastern then has a deficit; but with more units for Southern Metro there is a lower need for Southern 377/3 / 377 diagrams. I would personally move across the 30 x 375/6 units from Southeastern to Southern; and bring back the 64 members of the 377/1 fleet. I would equip them with a 375/9-style interior and then have them in a common pool alongside the 375/7 and 375/8 fleet with the "better" interior for thinner routes such as Charing Cross to Hastings and Victoria to Ramsgate / Dover. The 365s, with the lower-density layout, is suited to use on a Metro diagram as happily as Tunbridge Wells workings, Gillingham "stoppers" via Longfield and Ashford via Maidstone East.
The mathematics for the Southern franchise would suggest:
Current: 1075
- 377/1 819
- 313 762
+ 377/2 from TL 798
+ 376 1014
+ 375/6 1134
So that's a huge positive change for Southern, notably Metro.
And then on Southeastern:
Current (excluding High Speed): 1328
- 375/6 1208
- 376 992
+ 365 1152
+ 377/1 1408
A net increase of 80 vehicles; with the entire fleet (with the exception of the 375/3s which are for the likes of Sheerness, Maidstone West and in this case Bromley North) and the 466s (kept for some 10 car workings in Metro) are fit for 8 and 12 car.
The 377/5s on Great Northern have good performance for the route and supplement the 700s whilst the King's Lynn route receives key benefits including an all-day and better service (especially peak) to London using the most modern sort of stock. The 387s being built for what seems to be LOROL can transfer across to Great Western in turn once they're finished with and the electric services on Great Western for now can be formed of surplus Class 319 units for the "crap"; such as Oxford to Banbury, Newbury and the half-hourly stoppers down via Slough. They can then deflect to the North once more electrification is completed there like TransPennine.
The 317s from Great Northern can join their brothers and sisters on West Anglia along with the ex-London Overground lot (once they in turn are replaced) and all be fully-refurbished.
I think I now have Writer's Cramp.
Ha ha, bizarrely over-thought!! 
Word of note is that, i believe the 377/7s will primarily be used on metro services when the 377s return (releasing more 455s), rather than West Londons...
The use of "overkill" in the first sentence is exactly what we DO want.....!
Word of note is that, i believe the 377/7s will primarily be used on metro services when the 377s return (releasing more 455s), rather than West Londons...
The use of "overkill" in the first sentence is exactly what we DO want.....!
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notadriver
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Isn't using 100 mph units on inner suburban DC work bad for punctuality ?
RobShipway
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I think that you will find that the 377/3's will go back to Coastway routes such as Brighton - Seaford trains once the class 700's have moved into the TSGN services, so that the class 313's can be pensioned off.
D365
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No, you won't find that. The Brighton-based Class 313s won't be replaced on Coastway routes until the next franchise at the earliest.
Mikey C
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While the North Kent Line may not need 12 car services, it would be useful on the slow Greenwich line stoppers. Either way, Crossrail won't open until after the major disruptions at London Bridge have finished, which is when Southeastern Metro services need longer trains.
Nym
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Just because the power can cope in the peaks doesn't mean it's rated for that load all the time...
currently the off-peak Cambridge Express is 45 minutes (in reality). I really don't think adding nearly 50% to the fastest CBG-London journey would be make you popular. If anything, there's demand for that journey time to be reduced, between Cambridge & Hitchin feels like a trundle for much of the distance.
And until Broxbourne-Tottenham Hale is four track there's no space for more trains on the West Anglia anyway, certainly not express services.
Stansted Express services are often very busy.
And until Broxbourne-Tottenham Hale is four track there's no space for more trains on the West Anglia anyway, certainly not express services.
Stansted Express services are often very busy.
Class377/5
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Correct. Let's not forget the 377/3 will in pay be to provide more 10 car trains along the released 377 meaning peak everything go to max length for that route.
Also the 455s are too start to fall down more so 377s will need to replace some 455 . Next franchise will replace 313 and 455 on the 'Southern' routes.
Oh and getting back on topic, 387202 is on route to Bletchley.
It isn't the first time that Robbies has been corrected on where the 377/3 are going post 700 arrival.
swt_passenger
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That seems to be the only sensible interpretation of the CP5 enhancement plans for the Kent route, because there are still a number of further parts to the power strengthening due by 2018 and 2019.
Specifically for further 12 car operation that cannot start until after Thameslink KO2.
Class377/5
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387201/202 making thier way to the 3rd rail currently.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P91094/2015/11/10/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P91094/2015/11/10/advanced
Is there first class on the gatwick units? From recent videos all i can see is the rock hard seats the other 387s and 377/6 377/7 have
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AhCoc6AcRY8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7L0x-oc_9Q
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AhCoc6AcRY8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7L0x-oc_9Q
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Deary me. They could have gone with the First Class seats that the 700s are getting. At least they've managed to negotiate a deal for a red variant of the ironing boards, rather than their usual off-green I suppose!
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LM 170
Member
I am shocked that these 387/2s have no proper 1st Class seating I am disappointed that the 1st Class has not been put on the Gatwick Express of all things. If there's no proper comfortable seating for the Gatwick Express passenger what hope has the rest of the rail network got for new train seating!!!!
RobShipway
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I can see regular Gatwick Express customers wanting to keep the class 442's after watching the above videos.
they have plug sockets and will have wifi so i bet this takes preference over what the 442 offered, and of course the wider doors with a smaller step up.
Its just a shame the are two inches of memory foam away from being excellent units.
RobShipway
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You also have to remember that the class 387/2's of which 27 will be built are probably mostly going to be doing Brighton - Gatwick - Victoria express trains/Eastbourne - Victoria express trains, as well as the Gatwick - Victoria trains so more executive type seating will not be needed as these trains will no longer be premium trains, it is just that there will be premium fares charged on them for the Gatwick - Victoria trains service.
Wont be on Eastbourne to Vics....... but yeh they should be premium service if you pay a premium!
The illuminated pantograph almost makes the train look sinister coming around the bend at the start of that first video!
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