Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[D365]

Well, these rumours are a bit fishy.

 

[Class377/5]

Remaining 442 workings from Monday

SL051/052
5F82 06+45 Eastbourne Sidings to Eastbourne
1F82 07.12 Eastbourne to London Bridge
5F82 09+00 London Bridge to Streatham Hill
5Y81 11+54 Streatham Hill to Stewarts Lane
Berth

5Y82 14+35 Stewarts Lane to Streatham Hill
3F27 16+55 Streatham Hill to London Bridge
1B47 17.57 London Bridge to Brighton
1A13 19.28 Brighton to Victoria
1A36 20.50 Victoria to Brighton
1A39 21.58 Brighton to Victoria
1A26 23.07 Victoria to Brighton
5H74 00+13 Brighton to Hove Yard via Preston Park

SL059/060
5A65 06+55 Hove Yard to Brighton via Preston Park
1B08 07.32 Brighton to London Bridge
5B13 08+58 London Bridge to Lovers Walk
Berth
5B46 15+46 Lovers Walk to Brighton
1B46 16.58 Brighton to London Bridge
1F83 18.23 London Bridge to Eastbourne
5F83 20+16 Eastbourne to Eastbourne Sidings

SL068/069
5T60 05+20 Stewarts Lane to Victoria
1A02 06.06 Victoria to Brighton
1A13 07.29 Brighton to Victoria
5T13 08+45 Victoria to Stewarts Lane
Berth

 

[najaB]

I don't see how breath can be baited?!

Danged autocorrect! (And me not proof reading)

 

[RichardKing]

Remaining 442 workings from Monday

SL051/052
5F82 06+45 Eastbourne Sidings to Eastbourne
1F82 07.12 Eastbourne to London Bridge
5F82 09+00 London Bridge to Streatham Hill
5Y81 11+54 Streatham Hill to Stewarts Lane
Berth

5Y82 14+35 Stewarts Lane to Streatham Hill
3F27 16+55 Streatham Hill to London Bridge
1B47 17.57 London Bridge to Brighton
1A13 19.28 Brighton to Victoria
1A36 20.50 Victoria to Brighton
1A39 21.58 Brighton to Victoria
1A26 23.07 Victoria to Brighton
5H74 00+13 Brighton to Hove Yard via Preston Park

SL059/060
5A65 06+55 Hove Yard to Brighton via Preston Park
1B08 07.32 Brighton to London Bridge
5B13 08+58 London Bridge to Lovers Walk
Berth
5B46 15+46 Lovers Walk to Brighton
1B46 16.58 Brighton to London Bridge
1F83 18.23 London Bridge to Eastbourne
5F83 20+16 Eastbourne to Eastbourne Sidings

SL068/069
5T60 05+20 Stewarts Lane to Victoria
1A02 06.06 Victoria to Brighton
1A13 07.29 Brighton to Victoria
5T13 08+45 Victoria to Stewarts Lane
Berth

With one added ECS move from Eastbourne Sidings to Eastleigh at some point.

 

[hello]

is what i dont understand is, if these trains were destined for the scrap yard why arent they going straight to the scrap yard rather than being kept in warm store? im sure everyone insisted the same about great westerns hsts, but that turned out to be incorrect and a lot of those are destined for scotrail

 

[deanparkr]

is what i dont understand is, if these trains were destined for the scrap yard why arent they going straight to the scrap yard rather than being kept in warm store? im sure everyone insisted the same about great westerns hsts, but that turned out to be incorrect and a lot of those are destined for scotrail

I imagine some sort of plan has been put in place if they are in warm store. I'm sure Angel has had long notice to put something together.

 

[Class377/5]

is what i dont understand is, if these trains were destined for the scrap yard why arent they going straight to the scrap yard rather than being kept in warm store? im sure everyone insisted the same about great westerns hsts, but that turned out to be incorrect and a lot of those are destined for scotrail

The HST is a 23m diesel engine train so suited to many parts of the network. The 23m 442 need 3rd rail (rebuild is so expensive new build will likely be cheaper right right) and limited places where you can put a 23m train in 3rd rail land. And anywhere they fit doesn't want them.

 

[Please Explain]

Hi fellas,

I've just came up with an innovative idea that the 5WES' could be converted to LHCS and hauled by locomotives on TPE!

Now I bet no ones ever thought of that before?!

 

[MatthewRead]

Hi fellas,

I've just came up with an innovative idea that the 5WES' could be converted to LHCS and hauled by locomotives on TPE!

Now I bet no ones ever thought of that before?!

Has been of before.
Already been dropped

 

[Please Explain]

Couldn't resist!

 

[D365]

So even though TPE has brand-new rolling stock on order... we're still "supposed" to be getting "London cast-offs" up north?!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The HST is a 23m diesel engine train so suited to many parts of the network. The 23m 442 need 3rd rail (rebuild is so expensive new build will likely be cheaper right right) and limited places where you can put a 23m train in 3rd rail land. And anywhere they fit doesn't want them.

Also the traction motors are knackered and replacement motors might well mean replacing a lot of the traction stuff under the motor coach would need replacing so to even stay on 3rd rail territory they'd need a lot of expensive work, so again new build would probably be cheaper

 

[43074]

The GWR plan* was first mentioned publicly by a member of GWR's fleet management on the wnxx forum who suggested they will have a shortfall of units between the 150/1s departing and the 16x units from the Thames Valley arriving, so there would be 4 diagrams for loco hauled stock on Cardiff - Plymouth to cover the shortfall... 442s have been suggested as the coaching stock for this work. It seems plausible that there may be a shortage of trains when stock is transferred away with GWR wiring running late, and that a stop gap may therefore be required, but whether or not 442s will feature we will have to wait and see.

* The GWR ''plan'' seems to be changing pretty much weekly so do not take any of the above as gospel, as with anything rolling stock related I'd take it with a pinch of salt until something actually happens!

 

[nottsnurse]

How about this for a plan? Re-gauge Class 442 to 3ft gauge, transport them to Shore Station at Southend, disconnect all their brakes, give them a small nudge and set them on their merry little way for about a mile and a half?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

How about this for a plan? Re-gauge Class 442 to 3ft gauge, transport them to Shore Station at Southend, disconnect all their brakes, give them a small nudge and set them on their merry little way for about a mile and a half?

Southend Pier has already had its troubles (after the fire a few years ago) so don't want any more mishaps!

 

[Domh245]

The GWR plan* was first mentioned publicly by a member of GWR's fleet management on the wnxx forum who suggested they will have a shortfall of units between the 150/1s departing and the 16x units from the Thames Valley arriving, so there would be 4 diagrams for loco hauled stock on Cardiff - Plymouth to cover the shortfall... 442s have been suggested as the coaching stock for this work. It seems plausible that there may be a shortage of trains when stock is transferred away with GWR wiring running late, and that a stop gap may therefore be required, but whether or not 442s will feature we will have to wait and see.

* The GWR ''plan'' seems to be changing pretty much weekly so do not take any of the above as gospel, as with anything rolling stock related I'd take it with a pinch of salt until something actually happens!

I thought that the solution to that was going to be the shortened HST 'GTI' sets

 

[43074]

I thought that the solution to that was going to be the shortened HST 'GTI' sets

That appears to have been put on hold, as posted in the 185 thread by Rich McLean:

That plan has been put on hold now. There is a new plan for 11 x 2+8 HST sets to head to XC, in exchange for 11 x 220s or 221s to head to GWR, awaiting DfT approval, and maybe revealed in the AXC Direct Award as a quick win solution, especially as the Direct Award for XC is pretty much confirmed to be zero growth (no joke), so no additional stock will be brought in.

If the above goes ahead, the Voyagers will work Cardiff - Taunton and Plymouth - Penzance (alongside 150/2's), along with a few through services each day.

However, the plan has changed so many times, I will believe it when I see it

 

[Clarence Yard]

That appears to have been put on hold, as posted in the 185 thread by Rich McLean:

No, it's very much on. The final details on the legals are being worked on now, together with the plan for the work to be done. This involves The XC and Scottish sets as they are all planned to be done at the same works.

The loco hauled option is just that. It is a straw man to compare with other DMU options, such as retaining stock that was due to go to Northern for a few months more. The DfT are to be the ones who are deciding but they are known to be not currently keen on the LHCS option for GWR.

So far as we so far know the 150/1 that were due to go in August 2017 are almost certainly being authorised to be retained in GWR to December 2017 and the 5 Porterbrook cl.153 have been authorised to be kept too. The fate of 3 of the Angel cl.153 are yet unknown but FG are on the case with these too. The 143 sets look as if they will be around to mid to late 2018.

So the shortfall is looking like 6 cars on present stock levels and it doesn't take a genius to work out that if wires to Maidenhead can release another 2 turbos from what is expected, the 2 150/0 units could head west to fill the gap before the Turbos start arriving or the first HST-GTI set gets converted, both of which will now be sometime in summer 2017.

 

[Mordac]

No, it's very much on. The final details on the legals are being worked on now, together with the plan for the work to be done. This involves The XC and Scottish sets as they are all planned to be done at the same works.

The loco hauled option is just that. It is a straw man to compare with other DMU options, such as retaining stock that was due to go to Northern for a few months more. The DfT are to be the ones who are deciding but they are known to be not currently keen on the LHCS option for GWR.

So far as we so far know the 150/1 that were due to go in August 2017 are almost certainly being authorised to be retained in GWR to December 2017 and the 5 Porterbrook cl.153 have been authorised to be kept too. The fate of 3 of the Angel cl.153 are yet unknown but FG are on the case with these too. The 143 sets look as if they will be around to mid to late 2018.

So the shortfall is looking like 6 cars on present stock levels and it doesn't take a genius to work out that if wires to Maidenhead can release another 2 turbos from what is expected, the 2 150/0 units could head west to fill the gap before the Turbos start arriving or the first HST-GTI set gets converted, both of which will now be sometime in summer 2017.

So Northern just gets screwed over in the process? What are they going to do to make up for the 150/1s not being there when they should?

 

[43096]

Couldn't resist!

Neither can I: do shut up. 442 "gags" are just tedious now.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Neither can I: do shut up. 442 "gags" are just tedious now.

They're just getting a little plastic now

 

[Clarence Yard]

So Northern just gets screwed over in the process? What are they going to do to make up for the 150/1s not being there when they should?

Northern need them for the December 2017 timetable whenever that finally gets implemented, thanks to NR being late with the infrastructure again.

Nobody is getting screwed over - it's just a short delay in the transfer (August to December 2017) which shouldn't have any materially adverse effect.

 

[Please Explain]

They're just getting a little plastic now

This forum is obsessed with these trains!

 

[scott118]

This forum is obsessed with these trains!

or perhaps, just this thread, numpty...

 

[reddragon]

I thought the 442s were going onto the North Downs service replacing the Turbos.

As I understand it, one driving car is to become a battery car to cover the gaps in the 3rd rail.

There will be 2 new services operated by them involving a couple of extra spurs.

1 - Reading to Gatwick, with a spur to the runway where wings will pop out so that they can fly to Paris

2 - Reading to Gatwick then Brighton, where a spur to the rebuilt pier will enable their hovercraft function to get them across the channel and onwards.

A bit chitty chitty bang bang really.

 

[Please Explain]

I thought the 442s were going onto the North Downs service replacing the Turbos.

As I understand it, one driving car is to become a battery car to cover the gaps in the 3rd rail.

There will be 2 new services operated by them involving a couple of extra spurs.

1 - Reading to Gatwick, with a spur to the runway where wings will pop out so that they can fly to Paris

2 - Reading to Gatwick then Brighton, where a spur to the rebuilt pier will enable their hovercraft function to get them across the channel and onwards.

A bit chitty chitty bang bang really.

Where is the like button?!

 

[Bantamzen]

I thought the 442s were going onto the North Downs service replacing the Turbos.

As I understand it, one driving car is to become a battery car to cover the gaps in the 3rd rail.

There will be 2 new services operated by them involving a couple of extra spurs.

1 - Reading to Gatwick, with a spur to the runway where wings will pop out so that they can fly to Paris

2 - Reading to Gatwick then Brighton, where a spur to the rebuilt pier will enable their hovercraft function to get them across the channel and onwards.

A bit chitty chitty bang bang really.

I would have thought an easier option would be to offer a replacement for services running off platform 9 3/4 from Kings Cross.....

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I would have thought an easier option would be to offer a replacement for services running off platform 9 3/4 from Kings Cross.....

Platform 9 3/4 still runs on steam even tho the obvious OHLE and GNER mk4's can be seen thru the windows.

Would need 90 050 for traction power.....

 

[RobShipway]

I thought the 442s were going onto the North Downs service replacing the Turbos.

As I understand it, one driving car is to become a battery car to cover the gaps in the 3rd rail.

There will be 2 new services operated by them involving a couple of extra spurs.

1 - Reading to Gatwick, with a spur to the runway where wings will pop out so that they can fly to Paris

2 - Reading to Gatwick then Brighton, where a spur to the rebuilt pier will enable their hovercraft function to get them across the channel and onwards.

A bit chitty chitty bang bang really.

Next there will be a Toyota Hybrid car engine added to each coach for power when not on the 3rd rail......

However, I can only see two ways the class 442 will go as I have stated before which is either to be scrapped or used in some way as temporary hauled coaching stock for which there is a few requirements coming up within the next year or more to be used for anything from 6 months to 2 years to plug the gap.

One such requirement will be the GWR services out of Weymouth such as the Heart of Wessex line when the class 150/0's and 150/1's move up to Northern next year.

 

[reddragon]

In the latest RAIL mag it states that GWR have advertised for LH services next year from Cardiff to Taunton.

Maybe 442s & 73s!

What about HST power cars at each end of a 442, maybe cheaper than converting all those old Mk3 coaches?

Now, we just need to fit in the spare class 460 DMLVs and class 373s!