Class 456 for Ascot-Guildford line

[davetheguard]

So you want all the crews and fitters to be trained up on another type of unit?

SWT have spare 158s so they use them on the branch during the week, what happens up Country is nothing to do with them, oh they also have various 158/159s parked up at Basingstoke, Exeter, Clapham jn and Salisbury all day; should they be given to other operators as well?

I'm shocked to hear a railwayman referring to trains as parked.

Whatever happened to stabled?

Honestly, whatever next? Trucks instead of wagons? Carriages instead of coaches? "Train" when you mean a locomotive?

 

[bb21]

Honestly, whatever next? Trucks instead of wagons? Carriages instead of coaches? "Train" when you mean a locomotive?

Captains instead of drivers, customer service agents/assistants instead of guards.

 

[455driver]

They are also about to hire a second unit to FGW, to allow a couple of 153s to be internally cascaded for the Paignton and Melksham extra services. IIRC SWT already used 8 from 11 158s on their own diagrams, so that must take daily utilisation up to 10 from 11.

FGW are looking to hire the SWT unit that sits at Exeter all day it is a 159 on that diagram at the moment but it is possible that it will be a 158 from December to enable the hire in to take place.
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I'm shocked to hear a railwayman referring to trains as parked.

Whatever happened to stabled?

Honestly, whatever next? Trucks instead of wagons? Carriages instead of coaches? "Train" when you mean a locomotive?

Oh woteva, yawn! :roll:

Did you understand what I meant, yes? So whats the problem!

I was berated on here a while ago for calling a colour light signal situated before a station a home signal, when I asked the smart arse what it should be called the silence was deafening.
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One might ask what all this has got to do with 456s on the Guidford to Ascot line , but it wasnt me that took it off topic!

 

[Chris125]

Perhaps some slightly more lateral thinking. The Lymington Branch could potentially be given the 'new stock' when the Island Line gets eventually gets 'new trains'.

Don't forget that tube stock requires a reduction in platform height, not only adding to the cost but preventing the use of mainline stock.

Chris

 

[Starmill]

This is only a problem for enthusiasts, it seems.

And anyone with the required perspective to see that, on a national scale, the use of a DMU on this line is a blatant misallocation of resources. Frankly all of this nonsense about how inconvenient it would be to South West Trains (or, as I've seen much of, how it doesn't actually cost any capacity elsewhere) is not the market's problem. It simply states that this is a sub-optimal allocation. How this is sorted out is, in my opinion, the Government's problem. Lymington could maintain it's status quo if the demand for DMUs from other quarters weren't so high. In fact I'd wager that if we aren't already, we'd soon be at the stage where it would be economically beneficial to use buses on the Lymington service and send the 158 away. Not that I think that will happen/it is a particularly good idea, but if we don't get some more DMUs soon...

 

[Eagle]

It is a misallocation of resources, I agree. (As well as all the other SWT DMU services over electrified routes, which people keep forgetting.) But the problem is that there is no reasonable alternative at the moment.

 

[Starmill]

Indeed... you know, now that I've said it, even though I was scoffing, I think it actually would be be reasonable and feasible to use buses, it would only be bad press that stopped it - a sense of indignation from the locals.

And we are well aware there other places where DMUs run under the wires. It's just that this one is easy to pick on, but the others are no less wasteful: Hazel Grove and Morpeth are the examples where everyone jumps out and says 'but the diagrams interwork to Metrocentre and Buxton' - answer: well they wouldn't if Northern had enough EMUs to cover them :roll:

 

[Goatboy]

This is only a problem for enthusiasts, it seems.

I don't know why a few people are so offended by the fact that there is nothing more suitable to the Lymington Branch at the moment.

Because it's annoying to sit on a 150 with partially effective heating for several hours whilst at the same time a 158 shuttles back and forth on a little used branch line.

Thats why people are 'offended'. I appreciate it happens for a reason, but that doesn't stop it being irritating.

It's like running a National Express coach on a park and ride shuttle whilst sending a Dennis Dart on a 5 hour motorway trip.

 

[Eagle]

Again, focusing on the Lymington branch when it's a wider problem in SWT.

It annoys me when people just focus on that one train because it's the one they've heard of.

 

[Monty]

Again, focusing on the Lymington branch when it's a wider problem in SWT.

It annoys me when people just focus on that one train because it's the one they've heard of.

It's even more annoying when it's been explained to death why this happens and for the time being there is no viable alternative.

 

[Eagle]

In fact, there is a solution, and it's the subject of this thread :P

456s in Surrey free up 450s. 450s in Hampshire free up 158s and 159s. However (IMO wrongly) SWT have decided to hold on to them rather than subleasing them to a more needy operator.

 

[455driver]

In fact, there is a solution, and it's the subject of this thread :P

456s in Surrey free up 450s. 450s in Hampshire free up 158s and 159s. However (IMO wrongly) SWT have decided to hold on to them rather than subleasing them to a more needy operator.

Have you travelled on the (Exeter to) Salisbury to Waterloo services during rush hour?
There is a need to extend these trains and the stock cascade will enable that to happen, the problems up Country are for the DaFT to sort out and if they thought like some on here then they would compel SWT to sublease them, the fact they dont surely answers the question?

IMHO people are obsessed with the lymmy and there is no problem with running the 158 on the route because there are no 450s available.

 

[Techniquest]

In fact, there is a solution, and it's the subject of this thread :P

456s in Surrey free up 450s. 450s in Hampshire free up 158s and 159s. However (IMO wrongly) SWT have decided to hold on to them rather than subleasing them to a more needy operator.

What absolutely horses**ting nonsense we have to put up with! Takes the mick when huge numbers of passengers around the country, across the majority of TOCs, on non-electrified railways (or at least with very little electrified railway to use, the example in my head is ATW), could quite happily use the extra DMUs to provide capacity where it's needed :roll:

As for the Lymington situation, it is outrageous for sure. However I'm not going to go on about that, although I'm sure I could for some time.

To think though, if it hadn't taken so frigging long to get the new Thameslink trains being started on, we may have got the EMU cascade started by now or at least very soon, and things would start looking better. Ridiculous it is that we have a new bit of track almost ready for passenger services up North, but nothing to use on it. That would be like opening a new supermarket with plenty of tills but no-one to operate them for 12 months...

 

[Eagle]

To think though, if it hadn't taken so frigging long to get the new Thameslink trains being started on, we may have got the EMU cascade started by now or at least very soon, and things would start looking better.

Although on the flipside of that, if the Thameslink order hadn't been so delayed, then Southern wouldn't have ordered as many 377s as they have, so there would be fewer overall EMUs to cascade in the long run.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I heard using a 158 on the Limmie branch is doing them no good at all.A 456 seems to be a better option.I remember at one time they used to use a 159 on the 1415 Southampton,which I had worked myself and this seemed a bit pointless also.

 

[Techniquest]

I heard using a 158 on the Limmie branch is doing them no good at all.A 456 seems to be a better option.I remember at one time they used to use a 159 on the 1415 Southampton,which I had worked myself and this seemed a bit pointless also.

Not surprised, putting trains designed for express inter-regional work on a short commuter branch all day is just asking for trouble.

Eagle: Fair comment. Now all we need to do is still order more EMUs anyway, and finally sort out the DMU situation. Once the current electrifications are finally done, that really ought to be the priority. Order tons of them to replace the Pacers across the land and more besides to boost capacity elsewhere too and to future-proof requirements.

Look at the 175s for example, 2-car trains were deemed appropriate back then. Now we're stuck with ridiculously under-capacity trains for routes that are rather busy and getting busier. What things will be like in 5 or 10 years time I dread to think...

Not that I expect the DfT will even consider what the railways will need in 30 years time...

 

[capital12]

Because it's annoying to sit on a 150 with partially effective heating for several hours whilst at the same time a 158 shuttles back and forth on a little used branch line.

Thats why people are 'offended'. I appreciate it happens for a reason, but that doesn't stop it being irritating.

It's like running a National Express coach on a park and ride shuttle whilst sending a Dennis Dart on a 5 hour motorway trip.

I think the first part of your post says more about how Northern look after their stock than anything else! I travelled on one of their 158s recently and apart from new seat covers at some stage, everything else was unchanged from when new - apart from having aged about 20 odd years! It felt dirty and uncared for.

SWT obviously get good reliability from their units because they look after them so why should they lose them because Northern can't look after theirs?! If they did they would be able to get better utilisation out of the units they have!

 

[Starmill]

I'm not sure maintenance schedules and reliability should be confused with the quality of the internal furnishings.

That said the latter is certainly worse on Northern so it wouldn't surprise me if the former were also.

 

[TEW]

That the interior is well maintained and clean suggests that the units are generally well looked after though, including mechanically.

 

[JB25]

Yeah it makes sense to put them on the Lymington as it's a 2-car EMU opposed to a DMU in a national shortage of DMUs.

Also the crews and fitters are going to have to learn a new type anyway unless they are that similar to 455s or they get Southern to do them.

456s are almost identical to 455s, they just have less coaches and as such less stuff to worry about underneath them. Actually driving them is pretty much the same.