Class 458/5

[5920]

So the damaged car could still be going to be fixed at Bournemouth - but on its own?

Didn't combining the two units to make one good set get suggested somewhere the day the Clapham Yard incident happened, does it really take months to make that sort of decision?

It takes that long because all the vehicles are individual. They are not like slammers where you wedge in any old vehicle.

A phase 2 458/5 is formed
676 BJ
744 BZ
740 BK
741 BL
677 BM

Because the TMS system relies on the different vehicles reporting in, the hybrid needed for 8518 isn't a piece of **** as both damaged vehicles are the 676 BJ type. You then need to reconfigure a 677 vehicle to become a BJ. Because they are different there are various other things to consider.
One of the driving vehicles has the batteries. So you will either have no batteries or two sets. Neither will be ideal. The brakes work on weights being interpreted by an ACU. Changing the weight by adding/removing batteries will mean that needs sorting.

You also have issues such as
Paperwork? It's probably not been done before so you need a safety case
How much aggro is it to do? Remember it needs all the temporary frigging, unfrigged once you need to reform.

 

[Bigfoot]

158/9 are not regularly but often either short formed or formed up with a unit from a different vehicle. Whilst I understand this is isn't the same electrically it is definitely the same on the paperwork front.

 

[swt_passenger]

Whatever happens we will end up with a mega-bad unit that could take absolutely ages to be repaired. Unless, that is, they haven't been repaired yet because they want to spend more resources getting the rest of the fleet done, which seems more sensible. How long would a repair like this take theoretically?

The side swiped unit is fairly minor damage, so the timescales for the two damaged cars together is mainly dependent on the fire damaged one, as they don't have to be done consecutively, or even at the same place. But despite all the debate earlier in the thread, no seems to have decided how they are going to fix it yet. (At least it hasn't been mentioned publicly.)

 

[southern442]

The side swiped unit is fairly minor damage, so the timescales for the two damaged cars together is mainly dependent on the fire damaged one, as they don't have to be done consecutively, or even at the same place. But despite all the debate earlier in the thread, no seems to have decided how they are going to fix it yet. (At least it hasn't been mentioned publicly.)

It could just be something that they will quietly get on with once the rest of the 458 jobs are done and dusted.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How much aggro is it to do? Remember it needs all the temporary frigging, unfrigged once you need to reform.

Does that mean that once it's done it's likely to remain as a permanent reform and they'll just reconfigure the other vehicle as well while it's being repaired and put that into 458 501 when that gets fixed?

 

[5920]

Does that mean that once it's done it's likely to remain as a permanent reform and they'll just reconfigure the other vehicle as well while it's being repaired and put that into 458 501 when that gets fixed?

No. Not if they think logically. Because you would also have to bodge either of 67601 and 67618 once they were repaired. Also you'd want to keep C4 mileages as closely banded as possible. From what I recall, one (8518) has done 200k more than the other and to C4 a unit too early will waste many thousands.......

 

[Peter Mugridge]

No. Not if they think logically. Because you would also have to bodge either of 67601 and 67618 once they were repaired. Also you'd want to keep C4 mileages as closely banded as possible. From what I recall, one (8518) has done 200k more than the other and to C4 a unit too early will waste many thousands.......

Surely if they have to bodge 67701 in order to put it into 458 518, they'll have to spend just as much time and effort on bodging it back again to put it back into 458 501 later as they would on bodging one of the other two vehicles?

By which time, presumably, 67701 will have run quite a lot of miles more than the rest of 458 501 will have? The damaged vehicle from 458 518, meanwhile, will have run correspondingly fewer miles than the rest of that unit, so the mileage thing would be "out" as much whichever way they do it?

 

[5920]

Surely if they have to bodge 67701 in order to put it into 458 518, they'll have to spend just as much time and effort on bodging it back again to put it back into 458 501 later as they would on bodging one of the other two vehicles?

By which time, presumably, 67701 will have run quite a lot of miles more than the rest of 458 501 will have? The damaged vehicle from 458 518, meanwhile, will have run correspondingly fewer miles than the rest of that unit, so the mileage thing would be "out" as much whichever way they do it?

It's around 15k a month so three months shouldn't hurt too much. You'd also have more combinations of units. It's difficult enough with two distinct phases plus the differing BZ vehicle configurations, let alone remembering 67701 is not a BM when looking at a schematic at 3 in the morning

 

[jopsuk]

158/9 are not regularly but often either short formed or formed up with a unit from a different vehicle. Whilst I understand this is isn't the same electrically it is definitely the same on the paperwork front.

On the technical front all the 15x classes were designed such that each individual vehicle is effectively a complete unit.this has allowed all sorts of hybrid units down the years. A specification intended for and resulting in flexibility that the modern EMUs simply have not been set up for

 

[Juniper Driver]

Last two trips were on 458/5s

458519+458525 then last trip of the year was on 458532+458508.

 

[5920]

8506 and 8514 were in traffic today.

 

[deepeetw]

A random question - when/why did they modify the air suspension by shimming a spacer in between the bodyshell and the airbag?

Saw a label on 8503 today saying it had been carried out in accordance with an instruction (too far away to read the exact wording) - other 458/5s I've seen seem to be missing this.

 

[Bigfoot]

A random question - when/why did they modify the air suspension by shimming a spacer in between the bodyshell and the airbag?

Saw a label on 8503 today saying it had been carried out in accordance with an instruction (too far away to read the exact wording) - other 458/5s I've seen seem to be missing this.

They've all got the shims or at least all the original 458 conversions have. Haven't looked at 8531-6 come to think of it. Perhaps the ride heights between the 458 and the 460 were ever so slightly different.

 

[deepeetw]

They've all got the shims or at least all the original 458 conversions have. Haven't looked at 8531-6 come to think of it. Perhaps the ride heights between the 458 and the 460 were ever so slightly different.

Just seemed odd that a body-side decal had been made to indicate it had been done.

 

[swt_passenger]

A random question - when/why did they modify the air suspension by shimming a spacer in between the bodyshell and the airbag?

Saw a label on 8503 today saying it had been carried out in accordance with an instruction (too far away to read the exact wording) - other 458/5s I've seen seem to be missing this.

Modern Railways explained that the suspension was modified to change the dynamic characteristics of the 458/5 specification vehicles when crush loaded. With more standing area and less seats, the centre of mass of the passenger load must be higher.

 

[WWTownEnth]

458501 Out of service - fire damaged
458502 In service
458503 In service
458504 In service
458505 In service 21/04/15
458506 In service 04/01/16
458507 Doncaster 17/11/15
458508 In service 02/11/15
458509 In service 29/08/15
458510 In service 28/04/15
458511 In service 04/05/15
458812 In service 14/12/15
458513 In service 14/12/15
458514 In service 04/01/16
458515 In service 14/12/15
458516 Doncaster 09/12/15
458517 Wimbledon testing 21/12/15
458518 Out of service - collision damaged
458519 In service 14/09/15
458520 In service
458521 Doncaster 30/11/15
458522 In service 02/11/15
458523 In service 10/12/15
458524 In service 26/05/15
458525 In service 09/06/15
458526 In service 29/08/15
458527 In service 20/07/15
458528 Doncaster 02/11/15
458529 In service 28/09/15
458530 In service
458531 In service
458532 In service
458533 In service
458534 In service
458535 In service
458536 In service

In summary:

2 458/5s out of service and awaiting repair
1 458/5 in testing
4 458/5s in conversion
29 458/5s in service

 

[jopsuk]

so once 458517 is in service that's the fleet back up to previous strength (but at 5-car formation); the remaining conversions and repairs are then truly additional stock.

 

[5920]

so once 458517 is in service that's the fleet back up to previous strength (but at 5-car formation); the remaining conversions and repairs are then truly additional stock.

Next week!

 

[Juniper Driver]

As opposed to the earlier conversions the later conversion seem to be getting back into traffic quicker.

 

[SWT_USER]

458506 currently in P17 at Waterloo with 'This train is experiencing technical difficulties' scrolling across the destination blinds.

 

[Bigfoot]

Known asdo issue in higher number platforms at Waterloo. Train drops to default door mode and plays/displays the issues message. Nothing exciting...

 

[Goldfish62]

Known asdo issue in higher number platforms at Waterloo. Train drops to default door mode and plays/displays the issues message. Nothing exciting...

When I caught the 1728 to Windsor yesterday the doors of the three coaches nearest the buffers at Waterloo had failed to open. Only just prior to departure did the guard manage to release them.

 

[Juniper Driver]

When I caught the 1728 to Windsor yesterday the doors of the three coaches nearest the buffers at Waterloo had failed to open. Only just prior to departure did the guard manage to release them.

That's a bit wierd as default mode would be four coaches open.I got on 522 yesterday with 535...Also noticed 503 whizzing through Winnersh down road at 2050.

 

[43096]

Also noticed 503 whizzing through Winnersh down road at 2050.

That's a new working from the timetable change. There's a new 2C99 1935 Waterloo-Reading that runs during the week and is booked for a single 458/5; showing as standard class only in the timetable. It goes back ECS. That'll be why they put up new 4-5 car stop boards on the Reading line, then!

 

[RobShipway]

That's a new working from the timetable change. There's a new 2C99 1935 Waterloo-Reading that runs during the week and is booked for a single 458/5; showing as standard class only in the timetable. It goes back ECS. That'll be why they put up new 4-5 car stop boards on the Reading line, then!

I think that they where using the 4 -5 car stop signs before that as they where through Christmas and New Year juts using 4 car class 450's on the Reading route as reported earlier in this thread.

 

[Goldfish62]

That's a new working from the timetable change. There's a new 2C99 1935 Waterloo-Reading that runs during the week and is booked for a single 458/5; showing as standard class only in the timetable. It goes back ECS. That'll be why they put up new 4-5 car stop boards on the Reading line, then!

Curiously, Bracknell also has 8-10 car stop boards.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Any idea how the introduction of a 10 car 458/5 has gone down with ALUA or ALUG or whatever they call themselves this week/month/year?

The train concerned is the 2153 Waterloo - Alton.

 

[TEW]

Haven't heard anything about that train. The use of a 10-458 on the 0641 Woking-London Waterloo really hasn't gone down well though with a lot of complaints about overcrowding now.

 

[43096]

I think that they where using the 4 -5 car stop signs before that as they where through Christmas and New Year juts using 4 car class 450's on the Reading route as reported earlier in this thread.

There have always been 4 car stop boards on the Reading line. The point I'm making is that they've been changed to 4-5 stop boards for the 458/5 introduction.

 

[Juniper Driver]

That's a new working from the timetable change. There's a new 2C99 1935 Waterloo-Reading that runs during the week and is booked for a single 458/5; showing as standard class only in the timetable. It goes back ECS. That'll be why they put up new 4-5 car stop boards on the Reading line, then!

Ah thanks...