Class 458/5

[hassaanhc]

Because when the train left Waterloo for Reading at 0720 there wouldn't have been any stock in Clapham Yard.

Actually, no, it's because SWT think it's funny when everyone can't get on the train, and they did it on purpose. :roll:

3. They weren't in working order for passenger service

But yes, I've seen Clapham Yard around 0715-0730, completely empty if everything is working.

Anyway, the 1907 Waterloo to Waterloo only reached Vauxhall on the outward before failing! :P

 

[Juniper Driver]

Because when the train left Waterloo for Reading at 0720 there wouldn't have been any stock in Clapham Yard.

Actually, no, it's because SWT think it's funny when everyone can't get on the train, and they did it on purpose. :roll:

SWT aren't always flavour of the month with me sometimes (like recently) but you are joking aren't you? Even I don't believe this clap trap and I've worked enough 4 car trains in the rush hour which is no fun for the Guard/Driver/Passengers and has a knock on effect to the service.Like door trouble and interlock problems.Longer dwell times @ stations.Yes they do some baffling things sometimes and make mistakes but I know people in the WICC always try to run the best service they can (and others involved in railway working).

Anyway back on topic,I was on 458504+458520 (for 4 hours) thought they were both new to me but have already worked 520.Behaved themselves admirably.

 

[infobleep]

The short formations before though where just first thing in the morning before the peak time and after 8pm in the evening.

Now there seems to be short formations on any trains certainly after 9am from Reading and also after 2pm from Waterloo for which the services where previously 8 cars trains. These services where quite packed normally when 8 car trains either from or too Egham.

As an example the 09:12 from Reading last Monday was just a 4 car trains and by the time it got to Staines there was very little room, such that when it got to Clapham Junction it was almost to the point that people would have to sit in people's laps that where already sitting down.

I would not mind but there was both some class 455 and class 450's in Clapham yard not being used, so why make the passengers suffer? The 450's will be moving over to the Reading route at some point soon to work the route regularly, while the 458/5 rebuilds settle down on the Windsor and Hounslow routes.

If there is likely to be no space at Clapham Junction, they miss out the stop so clearly there was standing space.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I don't think trains are in Clapham Yard all day unless there is something wrong with them.SWT don't work like that.Generally they seem to be down to the bare bones with stock.

 

[456]

then why do they keep lending a class 158 or class 159 to first great western if they were desperate they could send that 158 or 159 to help the reading services.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

then why do they keep lending a class 158 or class 159 to first great western if they were desperate they could send that 158 or 159 to help the reading services.

I don't think Reading Line commuters would be very impressed when a 2/3-car service turns up in lieu of a 4/5/8/10...

 

[samuelmorris]

then why do they keep lending a class 158 or class 159 to first great western if they were desperate they could send that 158 or 159 to help the reading services.

Surely because the shortage is of EMUs and not DMUs (admittedly, in stark contrast to the rest of the country - hence the lease) - can't exactly tack 158s onto the end of 450s I'm afraid!

 

[RobShipway]

Surely because the shortage is of EMUs and not DMUs (admittedly, in stark contrast to the rest of the country - hence the lease) - can't exactly tack 158s onto the end of 450s I'm afraid!

You could have 3 class 159/158's if they are spare attached together doing the Reading route instead of a single 4 car 458.

 

[notadriver]

They would be too slow and would cause hold ups.

 

[CosherB]

You could have 3 class 159/158's if they are spare attached together doing the Reading route instead of a single 4 car 458.

That's a massive 'if'.

 

[jopsuk]

you'd need to have a driver and a guard that signed the traction AND route.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

then why do they keep lending a class 158 or class 159 to first great western if they were desperate they could send that 158 or 159 to help the reading services.

If they were going to use that anywhere on their own network it would probably be on the Lymington branch with the 450 used for the branch being sent to help out the Reading-Waterloo route

 

[455driver]

You could have 3 class 159/158's if they are spare attached together doing the Reading route instead of a single 4 car 458.

If my Aunty was a man 'she' would be my Uncle!

I really don't get the point you are trying to make! :roll:

 

[RobShipway]

If my Aunty was a man 'she' would be my Uncle!

I really don't get the point you are trying to make! :roll:

The point that I am making is that if there is spare rolling stock within South west trains that would be longer than a 4 car class 458/0, then SWT should be using it at times when it is busy on the Reading - Waterloo route.

Hopefully that is clear enough for you?

 

[455driver]

The point that I am making is that if there is spare rolling stock within South west trains that would be longer than a 4 car class 458/0, then SWT should be using it at times when it is busy on the Reading - Waterloo route.

Hopefully that is clear enough for you?

Where is this 'spare' stock then?
Is it actually spare or is it actually under maintenance or in between trips on its own diagram?
Is the 'spare' stock cleared for the route?
Do the normal crews sign the 'spare' stock?

Your 'point' does the rounds every couple of months and its getting rather tedious explaining the reasons it isn't actually 'spare'! :roll:

 

[RobShipway]

Where is this 'spare' stock then?
Is it actually spare or is it actually under maintenance or in between trips on its own diagram?
Is the 'spare' stock cleared for the route?
Do the normal crews sign the 'spare' stock?

Your 'point' does the rounds every couple of months and its getting rather tedious explaining the reasons it isn't actually 'spare'! :roll:

I have only made the point once in this thread, but others have stated the same point about the use of spare stock and I happen to know that there is spare stock not being used which is not under maintenance or has not got to its MPC value before needing maintenance which is lying idle.

Also, if the point is being made by several people every couple of months then surely that shows that there is a need for more stock to be used before anything tragic may happen as it shows that people are concerned not only for their own safety but for others?

 

[3141]

SWT hire one 2-car class 158 to FGW.

That's very different from the idea of taking 3 x 3-car class 159s off their normal route to work on Reading services.

As a user of the West of England route I know that more stock is needed, if possible, not 3 units less.

 

[RobShipway]

SWT hire one 2-car class 158 to FGW.

That's very different from the idea of taking 3 x 3-car class 159s off their normal route to work on Reading services.

As a user of the West of England route I know that more stock is needed, if possible, not 3 units less.

More units are needed all round and trains with capacity not just to cope withe the amount of passengers today, but for future growth as well.

 

[infobleep]

More units are needed all round and trains with capacity not just to cope withe the amount of passengers today, but for future growth as well.

That is due to happen but it takes time unfortunately. I guess you could say why wasn't the stock ordered sooner so this situation occurred when less people were travelling than they are now. Of course perhaps the money for this has only existed in recent times.

One can't buy something without money to pay for it outright or pay off in installments. Well people do but it's better to be able to pay for it with money you have.

The more passengers that travel, the more money that exists to pay for rolling stock.

 

[ARoo21]

SWT hire one 2-car class 158 to FGW.

That's very different from the idea of taking 3 x 3-car class 159s off their normal route to work on Reading services.

As a user of the West of England route I know that more stock is needed, if possible, not 3 units less.

Which 158 is this?

 

[5920]

I have only made the point once in this thread, but others have stated the same point about the use of spare stock and I happen to know that there is spare stock not being used which is not under maintenance or has not got to its MPC value before needing maintenance which is lying idle.

Also, if the point is being made by several people every couple of months then surely that shows that there is a need for more stock to be used before anything tragic may happen as it shows that people are concerned not only for their own safety but for others?

There is very rarely ANYTHING spare during the week. And for rustling up 3 159s?

Fleet 30. Daily requirement 26. One on bogie overhaul at any time pretty much, one at Loughborough for PRM and C6 overhaul, leaves 2 which are probably on exams as you can't do them all at night. The depot was built for 22 trains and they have 41. There is nothing spare......

455s - don't know the requirement but there are normally three at Bournemouth. Two are being prototypes for the AC drive project, so that's five straight off. If it's 84 for a day, again that's only two 'spare' but you will have mods/exams/defects.

As for 'spare trains' at Clapham many get their cleans done during this time, CET tanking etc. Also everything's balanced very delicately, run more miles and you then throw your exam regime up in the air. No TOC runs short formed for a laugh, it may have been tongue in cheek but it's a ridiculous statement

There is a need for more stock. That's why there's 108 coaches as part of the HLOS and SWT are going for 707s
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Which 158 is this?

The unit rotates. It'll be any one of the fleet bar 158885. 881 today

 

[455driver]

I have only made the point once in this thread, but others have stated the same point about the use of spare stock and I happen to know that there is spare stock not being used which is not under maintenance or has not got to its MPC value before needing maintenance which is lying idle.

Also, if the point is being made by several people every couple of months then surely that shows that there is a need for more stock to be used before anything tragic may happen as it shows that people are concerned not only for their own safety but for others?

Really?
You know more than me then!
There was I thinking that all the stock at CLJ (during the day) was there because it is between trips and not because it is spare!

How much spare stock is there between 0600 and 0900 or between 1600 and 1900 then?

 

[5920]

Where is this 'spare' stock then?
Is it actually spare or is it actually under maintenance or in between trips on its own diagram?
Is the 'spare' stock cleared for the route?
Do the normal crews sign the 'spare' stock?

Your 'point' does the rounds every couple of months and its getting rather tedious explaining the reasons it isn't actually 'spare'! :roll:

Bravo!

 

[Juniper Driver]

I thought TEW was right for a minute and the SWT top brass were running trains down the Reading short formed,deliberately.I had spied an 8 Car 458 in either 47 or 48 road at Clapped out yard for a few hours,bumped into a guard who had just worked a Reading and wasn't very happy because it had been a four car he had worked down there in the rush hour time.After passing him I worked my train to Weybridge stopping off at Clapham Jn and the 458 which I had spied there earlier was gone.So much for my conspiracy theory.

I noticed that 458015 still has hardly turned a wheel in a month though.

I worked 458533 and my old mate 458536 together yesterday.No probs,long may the good run continue.

 

[5920]

I noticed that 458015 still has hardly turned a wheel in a month though

It hasn't. It's out of miles for overhaul. Can't be used in service.

 

[Juniper Driver]

then why do they keep lending a class 158 or class 159 to first great western if they were desperate they could send that 158 or 159 to help the reading services.

That is possible I suppose but there are a ton of speed restrictions on 158/159s from Mortlake to Virginia Water (not so many via Hounslow) and there are more between Virginia Water to Reading and back.(Which I don't know and would have to look up.)

It hasn't. It's out of miles for overhaul. Can't be used in service.

Well I guessed it was something like that (I think the shunter said a C4).Can't they tow it or is that a stupid question? (oh and thanks)

I've heard of drivers been taken off track but not trains lazing about for a month.

 

[456]

Surely because the shortage is of EMUs and not DMUs (admittedly, in stark contrast to the rest of the country - hence the lease) - can't exactly tack 158s onto the end of 450s I'm afraid!

just to answer your quote. you take the spare 158/159 have it running on its own from waterloo to reading that would free up a 458/0 to go connect up another 458/0 and get them to run a busy diagram. south west trains could ask midland trains for a class 153 then that could run the lymington shuttle and that frees up the 158 which currently runs it. I'm just offering suggestions that's all
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I thought TEW was right for a minute and the SWT top brass were running trains down the Reading short formed,deliberately.I had spied an 8 Car 458 in either 47 or 48 road at Clapped out yard for a few hours,bumped into a guard who had just worked a Reading and wasn't very happy because it had been a four car he had worked down there in the rush hour time.After passing him I worked my train to Weybridge stopping off at Clapham Jn and the 458 which I had spied there earlier was gone.So much for my conspiracy theory.

I noticed that 458015 still has hardly turned a wheel in a month though.

I worked 458533 and my old mate 458536 together yesterday.No probs,long may the good run continue.

I was told that a class 458 has gone up to Doncaster recently why didn't they send up 458015 when that 458 which has gone to Doncaster could still have some mileage on it

 

[5920]

just to answer your quote. you take the spare 158/159 have it running on its own from waterloo to reading that would free up a 458/0 to go connect up another 458/0 and get them to run a busy diagram. south west trains could ask midland trains for a class 153 then that could run the lymington shuttle and that frees up the 158 which currently runs it. I'm just offering suggestions that's all
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I was told that a class 458 has gone up to Doncaster recently why didn't they send up 458015 when that 458 which has gone to Doncaster could still have some mileage on it

What part of 'there is no spare 159' did you miss?

 

[RobShipway]

just to answer your quote. you take the spare 158/159 have it running on its own from waterloo to reading that would free up a 458/0 to go connect up another 458/0 and get them to run a busy diagram. south west trains could ask midland trains for a class 153 then that could run the lymington shuttle and that frees up the 158 which currently runs it. I'm just offering suggestions that's all
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I was told that a class 458 has gone up to Doncaster recently why didn't they send up 458015 when that 458 which has gone to Doncaster could still have some mileage on it

With regards to 458015, due to the fact that it has completed its MPC it will probably have to go up to Doncaster by road now, which takes a bit of work to sort out.

With regards to 455drivers point about the subject of spare stock coming up every few months, he should learn not to have a go at someone that has only brought this question up once within this thread and instead I suggest that he has a go out those that continually bring up this subject which is not me.

There is spare stock around, maybe not with SWT but that is spare stock around and it is really quite shameless ho the TOCs are not being imaginative about supplying the trains to be in service.

For me the only imaginative TOC seems to be FGW, who when they do not have a class 150 available put on a loco hauled service to replace the class 150 that is having maintenance. The same should be being done by SWT, such that they are making sure that they have at least 5 car trains when they would have been having 4 cars.

As a for instance, I believe that Southern do not use all the class 442's and I know that drivers that work both Waterloo - Portsmouth or Waterloo - Bournemouth/weymouth used to drive these so a couple of these plugged together could be used together on Waterloo - Portsmouth route, which would then free up at least 2 4 car Class 450's to be used on Waterloo - Reading. But hey what can you expect from the SWT when all they are thinking about is getting their new class 707's in their fleet and not really caring about their customers such as me, which has been shown within this thread by 455drivers attitude to be honest.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Does anyone know if this unit went up to Doncaster? Thanks.