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Class 484 replacing class 483 on the island line: progress updates

swt_passenger

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Meerkat

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Apart from enthusiasts travelling on the cheapest tickets they can find, just how many tourists do the current trains attract?

When I have been on the line the passengers seemed to be at least a quarter tourists, increasing to most on one service.
It might be a small gain (each change is a chance for free publicity for a start) but it’s still better unless you can explain the gain in having boring corporate liveries.
 

Bletchleyite

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When I have been on the line the passengers seemed to be at least a quarter tourists, increasing to most on one service.
It might be a small gain (each change is a chance for free publicity for a start) but it’s still better unless you can explain the gain in having boring corporate liveries.

While it seems this hasn't been done to the Marston Vale units, naming them and giving them a relevant graphical inset in the livery would work quite well while keeping the corporate style. They could perhaps be named after Island attractions or famous people.

By "inset" I mean this kind of thing:
post-5891-0-95453900-1528459204.jpg

Model of Northern Class 158 showing promotional "inset" type livery
 

jopsuk

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The fleets have been getting smaller since electrification- the original "standard stock" based Class 485/486 4-VEC/3-TIS fleet effectively was six seven carriage trains (though with about a carriage or so of that being motor compartment) - 42 carriages (and a spare!). Replaced with 9x483, all two car units, just 18 carriages (plus two more carriages for parts). And now just 5 two car 484, ten carriages total.
 

Chris125

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The fleets have been getting smaller since electrification- the original "standard stock" based Class 485/486 4-VEC/3-TIS fleet effectively was six seven carriage trains (though with about a carriage or so of that being motor compartment) - 42 carriages (and a spare!). Replaced with 9x483, all two car units, just 18 carriages (plus two more carriages for parts). And now just 5 two car 484, ten carriages total.

They had 9 but they weren't all needed even with the pier shuttle, as the regular 20min service was soon scrapped and it even went hourly in the Winter for a time, with the fleet quickly shrinking (005 went in 94, 003 in 95 and 001 in 96).

I'm not even sure the Ryde-Shanklin service was ever worked by more than four 483s, but happy to be corrected.
 
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Rick1984

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I think a
By "inset" I mean this kind of thing:
post-5891-0-95453900-1528459204.jpg

Model of Northern Class 158 showing promotional "inset" type livery
That could work quite well. Carisbroke Castle, Osbourne house and the Needles spring to mind. You could do them in a shilloute in the white space in the same dark blue as rest of carriage.
 

Goldfish62

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I think a

That could work quite well. Carisbroke Castle, Osbourne house and the Needles spring to mind. You could do them in a shilloute in the white space in the same dark blue as rest of carriage.
Agreed, that could work. It could always be added to the livery retrospectively. As long we don't have dinosaur or faux LT livery!
 

Meerkat

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What was wrong with the dinosaur livery? Got plenty of exposure for both the trains and the island.
 

Goldfish62

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What was wrong with the dinosaur livery? Got plenty of exposure for both the trains and the island.
Turned the line into a joke, an anachronism, as well as being completely hideous. Exposure is not always positive...
 

Meerkat

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Doesn’t most tourist stuff look naff to non-tourists?
And the dinosaur exposure was all good from what I saw (and heard from various parents and non-Rail fans)
The island line needs as much exposure as possible. After a trip there I was speaking to people at work and none of them knew about it, but the concept of train-ferry-train definitely appealed to them for a day out.
 

Clip

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Although that didn't stop them maintaining however many VEC-TIS units there were over the years.

But that was then and this is now and Im sure they wouldve done some workings out about how they can accomodate these new units and the best way to utilise them before they put an order in

And even with peak hours doubling up that still leaves one spare unit.
Is that not sufficient?

Turned the line into a joke, an anachronism, as well as being completely hideous. Exposure is not always positive..

I seem to remember it going down well when it first came out

How on earth will the Class 484 fit in the Ryde Tunnel?
Easily - look back through this thread and the other island line thread for all the info - theyve apparently been down there many years ago
 

Chris125

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What was wrong with the dinosaur livery? Got plenty of exposure for both the trains and the island.

It was mostly vinyl and looked tatty very quickly, encouraging rust. One unit in LT livery was always planned and a second made sense to allow a 4-car in red - by then the dinosaur livery was looking really tired so I think it was a pretty easy decision to repaint the rest.
 

DarloRich

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What was wrong with the dinosaur livery? Got plenty of exposure for both the trains and the island.

Turned the line into a joke, an anachronism, as well as being completely hideous. Exposure is not always positive...

It looked naff?

Doesn’t most tourist stuff look naff to non-tourists?
And the dinosaur exposure was all good from what I saw (and heard from various parents and non-Rail fans)
The island line needs as much exposure as possible. After a trip there I was speaking to people at work and none of them knew about it, but the concept of train-ferry-train definitely appealed to them for a day out.

It was mostly vinyl and looked tatty very quickly, encouraging rust. One unit in LT livery was always planned and a second made sense to allow a 4-car in red - by then the dinosaur livery was looking really tired so I think it was a pretty easy decision to repaint the rest.

I quite liked the dinosaur livery - but then it wasn't one of the 4 approved RailUK Forums livery colours so it will be hated here.
 
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Mikey C

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I never liked the dinosaur livery, but then I thought the NSE livery looked even worse on the 483s!
 

Mikey C

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The 483s were pretty ancient when they arrived whereas the D78s were withdrawn at a relatively young age and have already had lots of work done on them, so you'd hope that they'd need less maintenance
 

samuelmorris

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The 483s were pretty ancient when they arrived whereas the D78s were withdrawn at a relatively young age and have already had lots of work done on them, so you'd hope that they'd need less maintenance
If the 484s enter service next year the underlying units will be 40 years old. The 483s were 50 years old when they started operation, so not that much of a difference, but I appreciate the mid-2000s' refurbishment work on the D78s will certainly help.
 

hooverboy

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If the 484s enter service next year the underlying units will be 40 years old. The 483s were 50 years old when they started operation, so not that much of a difference, but I appreciate the mid-2000s' refurbishment work on the D78s will certainly help.
the bogies and running gear were replaced in 2005 or so, so not that old.

honestly,I think they'll be fine.
I'd say the one proviso is platform clearances.The D78's are substantially wider bodies than the 38 stock(20cm more i think), and with a longer wheelbase on the carriage.
ryde esplanade will need a bit of shaving off the platform edge, and the 484's will have to use end doors only(so middle sealed and seating bay fitted)
 

sprinterguy

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The 483s were pretty ancient when they arrived whereas the D78s were withdrawn at a relatively young age and have already had lots of work done on them, so you'd hope that they'd need less maintenance
Astonishing to think that, if the 484s have the same innings as the 38 stock, then Vivarail's legacy will still be running in 2059! o_O
 

Camden

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If you consider an underground line running 38 stock tube trains, those getting D78s as replacement would have seemed quite the upgrade. Worth bearing in mind that the District Line stock was never disliked too. This is a good deal.
 

Meerkat

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The big difference being D78s are grown up trains! They will feel much bigger
 

samuelmorris

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Astonishing to think that, if the 484s have the same innings as the 38 stock, then Vivarail's legacy will still be running in 2059! o_O
The 483s have only done 30 years on Island Line I think, not 40, but I assume you're talking about years since first constructed. At this stage it's entirely possible the 72TS will get a similar run, but with one operator throughout!
 

Mikey C

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It's funny how things work out. If Vivarail hadn't bought all those D78s, would the fleet have been scrapped by now?
 

samuelmorris

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It's funny how things work out. If Vivarail hadn't bought all those D78s, would the fleet have been scrapped by now?
Probably, and this I imagine is Vivarail's idea - as pressing requirements for small bespoke fleets come up, be in there with a potential solution (as long as >60mph running isn't required).
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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It's funny how things work out. If Vivarail hadn't bought all those D78s, would the fleet have been scrapped by now?
Without a doubt. After all, the vast majority of C Stock have been. I can foresee them lasting quite a long time on the Isle of Wight, after all - the older 483s did
 

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