Class 68 Progress, what's the latest?

[G_A_C_C_C]

Just noticed 68010 on Wembley LMD....

68003 dropped it off in the morning and then shot off back up north asap

 

[kennythelad]

68003 was on todays Crewe -Mountsorrel rtn. (don't know headcode, sorry).
68013 was on the Crown Point - Gresty Bridge light engine move, also.

 

[DownSouth]

That's good to know, especially as (reading between the lines of the recent announcements from EMD/Progress Rail) we've probably reached the end of the line for EMD's 2-stroke diesel engine in the US due to Tier-4 emissions regulations. Maybe the next competitor for the GE Powerhaul locos (class 70) will be Cat-powered and built in Valencia ?

Keeping in mind that Progress Rail is a division of Caterpillar, they would surely want to keep any big orders in-house as they have done with the JT42CWR export orders for Europe.

In recent years, Progress Rail and GE have both started taking steps to reduce the number of drivetrain kits sold to third-party manufacturers so that business could be brought in-house. It turns out that the brilliant reliability of the third-generation locos from the 1990s onwards (think GP60/SD60 from EMD and the Dash 9 series from GE) ended up surpassing that of the benchmark SD40-2, which along with the improvements of AC traction has had the unintended consequence of reducing the mainline loco market to the point the factories are harder to keep open.

 

[ac6000cw]

Keeping in mind that Progress Rail is a division of Caterpillar, they would surely want to keep any big orders in-house as they have done with the JT42CWR export orders for Europe.

In recent years, Progress Rail and GE have both started taking steps to reduce the number of drivetrain kits sold to third-party manufacturers so that business could be brought in-house. It turns out that the brilliant reliability of the third-generation locos from the 1990s onwards (think GP60/SD60 from EMD and the Dash 9 series from GE) ended up surpassing that of the benchmark SD40-2, which along with the improvements of AC traction has had the unintended consequence of reducing the mainline loco market to the point the factories are harder to keep open.

Until the oldest 66s start to need replacement, I don't think there are many big orders for European freight diesels on the cards. Since EMD buys in traction inverters from Mitsubishi, they don't really have a complete drivetrain kit of their own to sell (unlike GE) - which maybe part of the reason why the AC drive 68s/Eurolights use ABB traction equipment....

 

[Sunbird24]

The steady trickle of small and medium size orders, along with the ever-increasing demand for trams and train-trams which probably account for more than 50% of production at Valencia, are keeping the factory busy.
I suspect many possible customers will be waiting to see how the "Duals" fare when they start to appear next year. The UK Duals will have relatively low power diesel engines, and the African Duals are 4-axle so likely to be Euro 3000/3200 based but which diesel engine I don't know yet.
Whether there will be a future demand for 6-axle Euro 4000 with high power diesel and electric remains to be seen, but such a machine would be a useful replacement for ageing electrics where they can operate when the electric power is off or when diverted (or even scheduled) over non-electrified lines.
The ability to change gauges on the run would allow an even wider sphere of operation, but that is probably still a long way off for freight, although it is very common on passenger services in Spain with the class 130/730 series and class 120/121 series.

 

[ac6000cw]

Yes, the Valencia factory seems to have found a nice niche as a small/medium sized producer of rolling stock - certainly the build quality of the 68s looks very good to my eyes.

 

[DownSouth]

The ability to change gauges on the run would allow an even wider sphere of operation, but that is probably still a long way off for freight, although it is very common on passenger services in Spain with the class 130/730 series and class 120/121 series.

Variable gauge rolling stock is already in use for freight, both in Spain and in Poland.

 

[Sunbird24]

Variable gauge rolling stock is already in use for freight, both in Spain and in Poland.

Not sure what happens in Poland but all freights in Spain are hauled by fixed gauge locomotives which have to be removed while the wagons are hauled through a gauge changer which removes the axles/wheels and replaces them with the new gauge as they slowly pass through the system. A different locomotive is required to continue the journey. This process can take several hours.
Apart from experimental freight vehicles and locomotives used in testing automatic operation there are no freight trains which have the ability to run non-stop through any gauge changers, nor are there any commercial locomotives capable of doing so.
The passenger trains run through non-stop in under a minute normally. That is not going to happen with freight for a long time. All Spanish locomotives would have to undergo a complete bogie change which is very time-consuming, hence it just does not happen except on very rare occasions.
There is an article describing the various systems here http://www.vialibre-ffe.com/pdf/Track_gauge_changeover.pdf

 

[themiller]

Any news regarding the next delivery?

 

[Sunbird24]

Any news regarding the next delivery?

I have seen no sign of any more even partly built since my last report. The last few were rushed out during the summer break with some transfers missing and since then the factory has only been producing Euro 4000HPs (5 out of 20 seen almost complete) for South Africa and Euro 4000s for Europorte and what appears to be VFLI livery (4 & 2 respectively), and a huge bunch of trams.
On average I pass the factory once or twice a week so if I do see anything for UK I will report it here so no report = nothing seen.
No evidence yet of Euroduals (South African order for 50) or UK Duals (10x class 88).
Now that the weather is turning chilly at times there is little chance of seeing much inside as the doors will all be shut most of the time. The long, hot summer finally ceased about a week ago when daytime temperatures dropped from 38ºC to 14ºC in a few days.

 

[ash39]

68014 today became the first of the class to work a railtour, doing a marathon of a run from Newport to Leeds and back via Carnforth.

Pic here about to leave Leeds on the return. https://flic.kr/p/q34BNk

 

[route:oxford]

68014 today became the first of the class to work a railtour, doing a marathon of a run from Newport to Leeds and back via Carnforth.

Pic here about to leave Leeds on the return. https://flic.kr/p/q34BNk

Looks good.

Shame about the Mk3s in hertiage livery. Would look far better paired with some Chilternised stock, Pretendelino stock or even East Coast Mk4...

 

[Sunbird24]

Still no further news from Albuixech regarding the next batch of 68's or any 88's. They have been busy with trams, Euro 4000 orders for Europe and Euro 4000HP for South Africa.
Several Euro 4000's have been delivered to Europorte recently and the two Marathon Euro 4000's have been modified back to standard and almost ready for delivery to VFLI in France (leased from Beacon Rail).
The first Euro 4000HP was unveiled in Cape Town last week, 2 & 3 are believed to be on the way and 4 & 5 will leave by road for Porto on Tuesday morning before dawn for loading onto a ship bound for South Africa. Several more of this order for 20 are almost complete.
I would imaging work on the next 68's is well advanced and they could start appearing any time now. At this time of year the doors are all shut due to the cold so it is rarely possible to see what is inside but I imagine the erecting shop has room for around 30 locomotives at a time in various stages of construction and there are numerous (about 20) bays, some with pits for working underneath, which are used for a variety of purposes such as cleaning, painting, preparation, etc. Anything from bodyshells to completed locomotives can be seen when it is transferred from one area to another via the traverser.
It is quite likely that the remaining Euro 4000HPs, plus a few more Euro 4000's for Europorte and the remaining 68's are well under progress, and perhaps a start has already been made on the UK and SA Duals.

 

[captainbigun]

Or, things are on hold until the future of the factory is understood.

 

[ash39]

Looks good.

Shame about the Mk3s in hertiage livery. Would look far better paired with some Chilternised stock, Pretendelino stock or even East Coast Mk4...

I wouldn't call Virgin livery heritage! They were mk2's as well. I'm sure we'll see them on Chiltern mk3s soon enough, this week on training runs if the rumours are to be believed.

 

[MainlineD]

Or, things are on hold until the future of the factory is understood.

That is certainly not the case. The rolling stock factories are part of the transportation division which will continue to operate as Vossloh's fourth division until a new owner or major shareholder has been found by 2017 at the latest. Until that time, it's business as usual because there are a lot of firm orders still to be finished (concerning 85+ locomotives).

Furthermore, work on the EURO Dual locomotives for South Africa is already on its way. The first should pop out soon.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I wouldn't call Virgin livery heritage!

It's from a different millennium!

 

[fowler9]

It's from a different millennium!

So am I. Words will be said if anyone calls me heritage though. Ha ha.

 

[ash39]

Haha. Well I suppose the word heritage is open to interpretation!

 

[Techniquest]

Depends on what the definition of heritage is! I would call Virgin's old red and black livery heritage these days for sure, much in the same way in a few years time the white livery of Chiltern will be heritage. 91s and MK4s on the East Coast will be heritage to some degree too when the IEPs come into play.

As I say, it depends how you define heritage! I don't have a definite answer for that, I need to spend a while carefully wording my answer, which I suspect will be revealed on Twitter later this week

Bring on the 68s and their upcoming passenger work with Chiltern! Much time will be spent on the Snow Hill lines on 2015's WMDR trips I suspect

 

[Sunbird24]

Haha. Well I suppose the word heritage is open to interpretation!

Heritage applies to objects which have been passed down from a previous generation. A generation is a single stage in the development of a type of product or technology.
In the case of a livery it would become heritage when the original user changed to another one.
In the case of an object it would be when the original object was replaced by a newer version.

 

[Techniquest]

Well in that case a lot of liveries can be classed as heritage now!

 

[XCTurbostar]

Chiltern Class 68 Move - 16/12/2014

5J68 Marylebone to Stourbridge Junction

Empty Stock Class 68 + MK3s + DVT
Passing Tyseley 11 Minutes Early

Thanks,
Ross

 

[brick60000]

Chiltern Class 68 Move - 16/12/2014

5J68 Marylebone to Stourbridge Junction

Empty Stock Class 68 + MK3s + DVT
Passing Tyseley 11 Minutes Early

Thanks,
Ross

Looking at those, did the 68 ECS by any chance form the 1750 to Banbury? It arrives into Marylebone back from Stourbridge at 1728 by the looks of it, with nothing else seeming to show up on platform 1, which is where this is shown as arriving and the Banbury train is show as departing!

I could, however, be completely wrong [emoji1] !!

 

[sprinterguy]

Looks good.

Shame about the Mk3s in hertiage livery. Would look far better paired with some Chilternised stock, Pretendelino stock or even East Coast Mk4...

I didn't think that the Riviera Trains mark 2 rake (Not mark 3s, as has been said) of Virgin Trains liveried stock had been repainted since it was withdrawn from service with Virgin?

Heritage applies to objects which have been passed down from a previous generation. A generation is a single stage in the development of a type of product or technology.
In the case of a livery it would become heritage when the original user changed to another one.
In the case of an object it would be when the original object was replaced by a newer version.

If you ask me, it's not a "heritage" livery until the majority, or even the last, of the stock has been re-liveried, and then some stock has been repainted back into the older one.

Or was the Virgin "inherited" red/black livery a "heritage" one for at least two years while the Voyagers were still being introduced? hock:

 

[Class 170101]

Pretendelino stock

Currently to be found in Norwich, as per RAIL 763 Page 28 (with Photos of it passing through Colchester and at Crown Point last month)

 

[js47604]

Looking at those, did the 68 ECS by any chance form the 1750 to Banbury? It arrives into Marylebone back from Stourbridge at 1728 by the looks of it, with nothing else seeming to show up on platform 1, which is where this is shown as arriving and the Banbury train is show as departing!

I could, however, be completely wrong [emoji1] !!

Yes the ecs from Stourbridge forms the 1750 to Banbury

 

[midlandred]

Chiltern Class 68 Move - 16/12/2014

5J68 Marylebone to Stourbridge Junction

Empty Stock Class 68 + MK3s + DVT
Passing Tyseley 11 Minutes Early

Thanks,
Ross

Will the 68 be on today's 5J68?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Pedantically speaking it's a position light into the turnback at Kidderminster, not a feather.

(nice pictures by the way )

 

[Techniquest]

Ooh nice, the 68s have made it to Moor Street! Definitely doing a day out on Monday now!