ac6000cw
Established Member
Are there any more loco-hauled non-sleeper Mk3's still stored ?
(psst - don't mention the 442 trailers
)
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Class 68 Progress, what's the latest?
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Are there any more loco-hauled non-sleeper Mk3's still stored ?
(psst - don't mention the 442 trailers
)
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ac6000cw
Established Member
ex-HST vehicles would be more expensive to convert (non-standard ETS for one thing), although it's been done the other way in the past - some of the GC HST cars are ex-loco hauled, AFAIK. I guess converting sleepers might be too expensive to be worthwhile ?
TSGN announcment only said new trains to replace the Thameslink 313s. What about the ones on Coastway? In my view, Southern needs to retain the 442s in order to release some 377s back to the Coastway in order to completely clear the new super-franchise of 313s.(psst - don't mention the 442 trailers
There are no Mk3s in use in charter rakes (not since the demise of Cargo-D).
Spare Mk3s (loco hauled)
Kitchen Buffet Firsts
Arriva owned: 10202/215/222/226/233/235/237/242/250/257
Porterbrook Leasing owned: 10206/217/241/253
Open Firsts
DRS owned: 11006/011
Arriva owned: 11013/027/044/089 (at Crewe LNWR, being converted to TSOs for ATW), 11028/033/079/097.
Porterbrook Leasing owned: 11021/026/074
Open Standards
Porterbrook owned: 12008/022/029/036/045/083/092/095/101/142/144/156/160/163
DRS owned: 12047/063/065/087/134
Arriva owned: 12058/104/165
HST Trailers
Trailer Buffet Standard: 40402/419 (Arriva owned)
Trailers Guards Standard: 44065/088/089
A lot of these will be in a poor state, many last seeing use with Virgin Trains some years ago (some of RFMs last saw use with Cargo-D). Most of these are stored in the open at Long Marston. Arriva own plenty of DVTs as well.
The DRS owned vehicles were purchased some time last year, still confused why they purchased them. There is also the Pretendolino, which is due of lease by November.
The biggest source of good Mk3s, in reasonable order was the Irish Rail ones, already fitted with powered doors.
They were up for sale, although to be used here would need the bogies to be regauged. Not a show stopper. However nobody made a sensible offer to buy them and they have all recently been scrapped.
atsf_fT
Member
Class 68002 which ran to Stourbridge junction on 5th August for noise tests .
Sadly i didn't take my best tripod out with me ,so the filming is very shaky.
The flashing from the front light is from the camera at too high a shutter speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDt93IT8KSc&feature=youtu.be
Photos of the noise testing
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=104283
Sadly i didn't take my best tripod out with me ,so the filming is very shaky.
The flashing from the front light is from the camera at too high a shutter speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDt93IT8KSc&feature=youtu.be
Photos of the noise testing
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=104283
t_star2001uk
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- 723
I believe that the train supply voltage was different as well so they would have required a rewire as well as reguageing.
ac6000cw
Established Member
Yes, it was US (and HST) style three-phase AC.
fgwrich
Established Member
That said I'm surprised that even some of the bodies weren't brought over here for use as spares - possibly even for the Chiltern conversion jobs.
Speaking of Chiltern Railways again, 68011 Was out and about today on DRS's 6U76 Crewe to Mountsorrel working.
https://twitter.com/wnxxuk/status/504226721747701762/photo/1
Defiance149
Member
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- 30 Dec 2013
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- 402
The DRS owned Mk.3s have all recently moved to Barrow Hill from Long Marston so something is afoot with them.
68010 was also out on 0Z68 Crewe GB to Crewe GB http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O25836/2014/08/26/advanced
Got both 010 and 011 at Stafford, they do sound rather nice when running
dubscottie
Member
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- 916
As far as I am aware, only the Derby build ones had "grandfather rights" to run on on the Ex BR network.. (generator vans and buffets).
The others would need to go through all the paperwork/certification and wouldn't pass it anyway nowadays..
How are the 68's going to work push-pull? I can't see any sign of AAR MU sockets on any of them or are the red yokes under the windows RCH jumpers?
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High Dyke
Established Member
Hmm... So the Mem advises. It delayed her working into Leicester after it stopped at Syston Nth with a TPWS activation.
Looks like an AAR jumper under the left hand headlight?
The ones for Chiltern (and the two spares) are being modified for them, at Crewe Gresty Bridge.
ac6000cw
Established Member
I'm pretty sure that is the ETS jumper cable.
The loco-loco MU connectors are the red ones under the windscreen (I asked a DRS person at the open day). Maximum of two locos and only 68-68, I was told. As far as I remember, there were no AAR connectors on the 68s at the open day.
Either on this topic or perhaps the DRS fleet update one I read that the DRS DVT (82101 was it?) was so that they could test push-pull with the 68s. If so, has that DVT received the mods for AAR? Otherwise they might be planning to fit TDM to the 68s.
Cherry_Picker
Established Member
My understanding of that is slightly different. It's that two of the DRS fleet will be modified to work with Mk3 coaching stock for occasional use by Chiltern when maintenance to the silver 68s means they are unavailable.
Sunbird24
Member
They certainly have a system fitted to all the locos but I don't have the details to hand right now. 68001 was tested in multiple with one of the EuroLights at Velim and I was present when 68007 and 68008 were testing the system on the Albuixech test track. (See my avatar).
They can also use the remote control system which has been tested by Vossloh and partners already. Again, I was present at the test track when this system was tested on a Euro 4000. The operator had a portable controller like those used by aeromodellers only a little bigger strapped to his chest and was controlling the loco from the trackside. I was on the canal footpath and he explained what was going on. In practice two trains are coupled together with the second loco, now in the middle of a very long train, being remotely controlled from the loco at the front. Testing live was carried out in France and deemed successful and operation in service should commence next year. As the system is portable it could be easily adaptable for push-pull use. One of the 68s, I think it was No 9, was on the test track at the same time but may not have been involved in these tests. More details here: http://www.marathon-project.eu/
Sunbird24
Member
The systems used in the wide open spaces of Australia and USA were always deemed unsuitable for use in densely populated countries as in Europe where interference with and from other systems is greatly increased. Remote control shunting has been in use in Europe for many years but only using low-powered systems at extremely short range where the operator is always within a short walking distance of the locomotive under his control.
The new "Marathon" system is designed to overcome these problems and can communicate with another locomotive over 750 metres away and out of line of sight for much of the time such as when in cuttings or tunnels, or even when passing through the many towns en route, without causing any interference, or receiving interference, from other nearby systems, be they other remotes, various signalling systems or anything else.
Having worked in the electronics/avionics industry for over 50 years I do understand all the problems involved with trying to establish such systems, and getting them to work 100% safely under all conditions at all times and without having to shut them down when passing through densely populated areas where interference is high.
also have to deal with issues such as cuttings, bridges, tightly curved tunnels, cities, and trains passing right through big metal structures like grain or coal loaders.
The nearest stretch of railway to my home is on a segment where a 1800m freight train will be spread over four different curves (each in a narrow cutting) snaking around to follow the terrain contours, with a tunnel in the mix as well. Add in lots of homes alongside the line where people have WiFi routers, garage door remotes and so on, and you've got the most challenging situation possible for relying on radio communications, but somehow those inferior systems still manage to handle that without issue.
There's no incompatibility with AWS ramps and Eurobalises either.
Discrete frequencies and digital error checking have been standard practice for many years. Various versions of GE's Locotrol III are used on over 8,500 locomotives around the world, including a number of railroads in the USA which would each haul more tonne-kilometres in a year than the entire UK rail freight system in ten years which does necessitate trains passing one another along the way.
Sounds like the only "problem" being resolved is the obstacle caused by not invented here syndrome.
Does Marathon have both synchronous and independent control, or only one?
And meanwhile, operators in Australia and North America are laughing at the Marathon project's attempts to reinvent the wheel when said wheel has already been made obsolete! There's no need for radio control when you're using ECP, because the data signals to the distributed power units can be sent along the ECP data cables.
Sunbird24
Member
To answer your questions and for further information read this web site - every page of it. http://www.marathon-project.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28
ECP requires every vehicle to be fitted with the necessary cabling and connections and every locomotive to be fitted. This is just not feasible on a Europe-wide scale covering numerous different countries, locomotives and wagons. The Marathon system only requires the locomotives to have the equipment fitted, as and when required. The whole idea is that it does not matter what the train consist is, only that the locomotives can have the equipment fitted when required.
Should you wish to continue the discussion perhaps you should consider a separate thread, I merely said the 68s could use it, not would use it, currently it is only certified for use in France. End
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
System UIC (68008-68015 UIC + AAR)
Combinations UKLIGHT / UK DUAL
Number of units 2
Looks like 68008 and 68009 will be the 2 spares and not two from the second batch, unless of course the second batch are all going to be multiple fitted with AAR anyway.
ECP requires every vehicle to be fitted with the necessary cabling and connections and every locomotive to be fitted. This is just not feasible on a Europe-wide scale covering numerous different countries, locomotives and wagons. The Marathon system only requires the locomotives to have the equipment fitted, as and when required. The whole idea is that it does not matter what the train consist is, only that the locomotives can have the equipment fitted when required.
Should you wish to continue the discussion perhaps you should consider a separate thread, I merely said the 68s could use it, not would use it, currently it is only certified for use in France. End
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Multiple working
System UIC (68008-68015 UIC + AAR)
Combinations UKLIGHT / UK DUAL
Number of units 2
Looks like 68008 and 68009 will be the 2 spares and not two from the second batch, unless of course the second batch are all going to be multiple fitted with AAR anyway.
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Sunbird24
Member
Would not be surprised if there are 4 on it, none have been sighted in Albuixech for 2 weeks now, one may have gone to Innotrans already. Of course they could be tucked inside one of the bays but with all the doors wide open due to the heat (over 40ºC on some days) all that can be seen are Euro 4000s, a single JT42 (IR 767) and lots of tram units.
Surely their awaiting 5 now (68001/012-015). Now it was reported on WNXX that the ship bringing the 68s stopped off at three ports (Ijmuiden, Beverwijk and Antwerp West) between Spain and the UK. One 68 may have been dropped off at one of these ports to visit Berlin Innotrans event (which is at the end of next month).
So if 3 are now at Liverpool, then there will be 1 (or 2 if one hasn't gone to Berlin) still at Valencia?
ac6000cw
Established Member
Those were pretty much my thoughts too when I read about the Marathon trial runs....
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