Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[physics34]

At least the front end is not as horrific as the 345 or 710 regardless of whether its yellow or not.

 

[swt_passenger]

Wonder why they have had to go for a whole new front cab design surely the 717 don't have that much of a bigger cab front slant than the aventura

717 is a Desiro City variant with an end emergency door and folding ladder mechanism built in. Isn't it going to have completely different design features to an Aventra?

 

[theking]

717 is a Desiro City variant with an end emergency door and folding ladder mechanism built in. Isn't it going to have completely different design features to an Aventra?

Apologies meant the 707 (edited op) that they currently run. I heard because it's something to do with the length of platform at Waterloo but surely the 707's fronts are not that much different to a 710 or 345.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And once again a front which looks slightly different from the other Aventra's (the light clusters)

It is I believe different because the units are shorter than the other ones due to platform length issues.

 

[swt_passenger]

It is I believe different because the units are shorter than the other ones due to platform length issues.

Earlier in the thread it was suggested the cab was shorter to make the saloon longer...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Earlier in the thread it was suggested the cab was shorter to make the saloon longer...

That may be the case and I got it wrong. But the point is that this is an unusually shortened cab which is why it's different to other Aventra cabs.

 

[pompeyfan]

An executive of the drivers union ASLEF has reportedly been telling drivers on SWR to prepare for industrial action in regards to the 701 units, stating they’re unsafe and the cab is massively unsuitable. May well be wibble but I’ve heard 3 different unrelated people report this.

 

[lewisf]

An executive of the drivers union ASLEF has reportedly been telling drivers on SWR to prepare for industrial action in regards to the 701 units, stating they’re unsafe and the cab is massively unsuitable. May well be wibble but I’ve heard 3 different unrelated people report this.

Is there a completed unit for ASLEF to even inspect yet?

 

[Monty]

Is there a completed unit for ASLEF to even inspect yet?

Not to my knowledge no, but they had been supplied detailed plans of the trains interior layout. The cabs are considerably more cramped than other Aventra designs, which is the basis for the potential dispute.

 

[Aictos]

An executive of the drivers union ASLEF has reportedly been telling drivers on SWR to prepare for industrial action in regards to the 701 units, stating they’re unsafe and the cab is massively unsuitable. May well be wibble but I’ve heard 3 different unrelated people report this.

I've heard that the issues have been fixed so industrial actions looks to be averted...

 

[Goldfish62]

Not to my knowledge no, but they had been supplied detailed plans of the trains interior layout. The cabs are considerably more cramped than other Aventra designs, which is the basis for the potential dispute.

The offset driving seat can't help. I wonder why Bombardier are persisting with that when everything else these days has a central driving position.

 

[theking]

The offset driving seat can't help. I wonder why Bombardier are persisting with that when everything else these days has a central driving position.

The 345's 710's etc do have a central driving position the 701's are a swr special.
I'm sure bombardier would rather have just produced another 710/20 varient

 

[43096]

An executive of the drivers union ASLEF has reportedly been telling drivers on SWR to prepare for industrial action in regards to the 701 units, stating they’re unsafe and the cab is massively unsuitable. May well be wibble but I’ve heard 3 different unrelated people report this.

It is to be hoped any action is a) last resort after every negotiation option has been exhausted and b) limited to refusing to drive the new kit, rather than taking action that disrupts passengers now.

 

[Goldfish62]

The 345's 710's etc do have a central driving position the 701's are a swr special.
I'm sure bombardier would rather have just produced another 710/20 varient

No, the 345 and 710 have an offset driving position. I've had a look in a 345 cab and it's offset

 

[lewisf]

They’ve still got to be a massive improvement over a class 455 in terms of space. I would certainly hope so anyway, given that it’s a full width cab.

Hopefully any issues can be sorted amicably, much like the solution found for the class 385s.

 

[theking]

No, the 345 and 710 have an offset driving position. I've had a look in a 345 cab and it's offset

Slightly offset very slightly hardly talking about 717's or electrostars with end doors.

 

[Ethano92]

Not to my knowledge no, but they had been supplied detailed plans of the trains interior layout. The cabs are considerably more cramped than other Aventra designs, which is the basis for the potential dispute.

Surely they're no more cramped than a 456 cab since they're both only the width of the cab door with a 456 even having the similar slanting design.

These units really aren't going down well with the unions, much at the expense of passengers

 

[pompeyfan]

Surely they're no more cramped than a 456 cab since they're both only the width of the cab door with a 456 even having the similar slanting design.

These units really aren't going down well with the unions, much at the expense of passengers

I think it’s a bit harsh blaming the unions. Not even 2 years ago the same ASLEF branch accepted the 707s without any reported issues.

 

[Ethano92]

I think it’s a bit harsh blaming the unions. Not even 2 years ago the same ASLEF branch accepted the 707s without any reported issues.

Oh I didn't mean it in a way to blame the unions. I don't agree with the whole 'guard on every train' thing but I don't blame RMT for fighting for it, that's their job. Same way I don't blame ALSEF not liking the design of the cab, nevertheless with industrial action it's always the passengers that are most affected however its both SWR and the unions duty to ensure it doesn't happen although in the heat of the moment I wouldn't be surprised if I go against everything I just said and blame the unions profusely.

On the topic of 701s I'm interested to see the public's reaction. Of course there's the ironing board seats and clinical interior however for the Wimbledon side mainly that's the addition of air con, toilets, USB ports and publicised WiFi (I think the only reason WiFi works so well on 455s for me at least is because people don't know it's there)

 

[Bigfoot]

I think it’s a bit harsh blaming the unions. Not even 2 years ago the same ASLEF branch accepted the 707s without any reported issues.

Because the 707 is a well designed cab!

 

[43096]

On the topic of 701s I'm interested to see the public's reaction. Of course there's the ironing board seats and clinical interior however for the Wimbledon side mainly that's the addition of air con, toilets, USB ports and publicised WiFi (I think the only reason WiFi works so well on 455s for me at least is because people don't know it's there)

Out here on the Reading line, the 701s will be a MASSIVE downgrade on the 458s. I, for one, do not want the Aventras.

 

[321over360]

Im sure any cab is better than the converted end of a Class 153 with its tiny cab that was built where it used to be a non driving end of a Class 155 coach, besides, most train cabs, including Ex BR fleets (bar the idiotic 153s) that are still operating have big enough cabs for tall people to sit in, i mean i am 6ft6 and have comfortably sat in the Cab of a networker unit

 

[pompeyfan]

Because the 707 is a well designed cab!

Kind of my point. Give the staff a decent working environment and they’ll usually work quite happily and quietly.

 

[Mikey C]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, it's crazy for this to become a Union issue when the trains are on the verge of introduction.

 

[Goldfish62]

Out here on the Reading line, the 701s will be a MASSIVE downgrade on the 458s. I, for one, do not want the Aventras.

Same here, but they're on the way...

 

[fgwrich]

No, the 345 and 710 have an offset driving position. I've had a look in a 345 cab and it's offset

And if what has been mentioned on here before becomes reality, these cabs will be different. How much behind cab space will taken up if SWR has managed to change it compared to the rest of the Aventra family?

 

[Goldfish62]

Because the 707 is a well designed cab!

The 707 etc and the 68 and 88 use the standard European driver's desk. Surely it would make sense for this to be universally adopted as it appears to have been done in Germany and possibly other countries.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Out here on the Reading line, the 701s will be a MASSIVE downgrade on the 458s. I, for one, do not want the Aventras.

I don’t think you’ve got it that bad really when you consider the people of Maidenhead etc are also being downgraded to Aventras but from the rather nice 387s with tables and armrests

 

[Ethano92]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, it's crazy for this to become a Union issue when the trains are on the verge of introduction.

The fact that the issue only seems to be raised soon after construction started suggests SWR didn't share cab design with unions although are TOCs ever expected to? Bodyshells have been built now so what can change anyway?

 

[Malcolmffc]

Same here, but they're on the way...

As a long-suffering 455 user who roasts every summer, I can’t wait for them