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Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

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Class377/5

Class377/5

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Its no going anywhere. 707s are being commissioned from there.

Northam is busy dealing with the 444/450 fleet (remember the 707s aren't being maintained by Siemens but SWT) and Wimbledon doesn't have the space for commissioning as well its its work load.
 
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43096

43096

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Class377/5 said:
Its no going anywhere. 707s are being commissioned from there.

Northam is busy dealing with the 444/450 fleet (remember the 707s aren't being maintained by Siemens but SWT) and Wimbledon doesn't have the space for commissioning as well its its work load.
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Presumably Wimbledon will be involved for maintenance staff training?

The 455 AC conversion is pushed to be complete before the 707s enter service, I'd have thought.
 
Class377/5

Class377/5

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43096 said:
Presumably Wimbledon will be involved for maintenance staff training?

The 455 AC conversion is pushed to be complete before the 707s enter service, I'd have thought.
Click to expand...

I don't know for sure here but believe the current plan is all 707s in service before the end of the franchise. Not sure how the 455 AC work is going but seeing as the whole fleet is to be replaced in the next few years if the ROSCO wants to keep going with it.

Only 707 commissioning is to be based at Clapham. Bit like 387s being based at Bletchley for commissioning. Once commissioned the TOC then buys then and can do its training.

However I believe its 707001/002 coming first that won't be in service any time soon as they need to do AC testing prior to the equipment being removed.
 
43096

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Class377/5 said:
I don't know for sure here but believe the current plan is all 707s in service before the end of the franchise. Not sure how the 455 AC work is going but seeing as the whole fleet is to be replaced in the next few years if the ROSCO wants to keep going with it.

Only 707 commissioning is to be based at Clapham. Bit like 387s being based at Bletchley for commissioning. Once commissioned the TOC then buys then and can do its training.

However I believe its 707001/002 coming first that won't be in service any time soon as they need to do AC testing prior to the equipment being removed.
Click to expand...
It sounds about right getting the 707s into service before the franchise end. The franchise ends in the middle of the Waterloo upgrade works (not a clever move by DfT) and they're saying Reading line will have at least some 10 car trains for then - which means 707s in service to displace 458s to Reading trains.

As for the 455 AC motors, if I was Porterbrook I would have stopped the programme if they knew the 455s were going in the new franchise, and looked at re-using the kit elsewhere (maybe on 319s?). Further, I would be sending the bill to DfT, as they have clearly been mislead as to the future of the fleet, and if DfT refuse to compromise, would consider taking legal advice.
 
Class377/5

Class377/5

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43096 said:
It sounds about right getting the 707s into service before the franchise end. The franchise ends in the middle of the Waterloo upgrade works (not a clever move by DfT) and they're saying Reading line will have at least some 10 car trains for then - which means 707s in service to displace 458s to Reading trains.

As for the 455 AC motors, if I was Porterbrook I would have stopped the programme if they knew the 455s were going in the new franchise, and looked at re-using the kit elsewhere (maybe on 319s?). Further, I would be sending the bill to DfT, as they have clearly been mislead as to the future of the fleet, and if DfT refuse to compromise, would consider taking legal advice.
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The 707s will be useful in handing crowds and a good first test of them.

Re the 455 AC motors, DfT will say its the ROSCO risk to invest beyond the life span of the agreed contract for hiring the units and ROSCO cannot expect never ending contracts especially when they are no longer suitable for the routes they will be used on.

spark001uk said:
Could be http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O53225/2016/12/08/advanced
?
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Its almost like they don't want people to see the path! Then again the first 700 had quite a few different paths allocated!
 
43096

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Class377/5 said:
Re the 455 AC motors, DfT will say its the ROSCO risk to invest beyond the life span of the agreed contract for hiring the units and ROSCO cannot expect never ending contracts especially when they are no longer suitable for the routes they will be used on.
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I can absolutely see DfT using that argument.

But if they are no longer suitable, were they no longer suitable when the re-tractioning deal was signed? And if so, why was nothing said? It should be remembered that the re-tractioning was really all about creating depot capacity at Wimbledon for the 707s. The saving was DfT's through not needing a new depot. Such things will only make investors more risk averse - nothing will be done in future without a long lease, and suitable s54 lease protection where franchises are short.
 
Class377/5

Class377/5

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43096 said:
I can absolutely see DfT using that argument.

But if they are no longer suitable, were they no longer suitable when the re-tractioning deal was signed? And if so, why was nothing said? It should be remembered that the re-tractioning was really all about creating depot capacity at Wimbledon for the 707s. The saving was DfT's through not needing a new depot. Such things will only make investors more risk averse - nothing will be done in future without a long lease, and suitable s54 lease protection where franchises are short.
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The problem is the ROSCO has invested without knowing the stock would be used past the end date of the franchise. It took the risk and in this case its failed. The ROSCO demanding money is a bit like playing shares and asking for you money back if you fail. Especially as the work was done without being required so was a risk to begin with. The traction made the 707 case not the other way around.
 
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Class377/5 said:
I don't know for sure here but believe the current plan is all 707s in service before the end of the franchise. Not sure how the 455 AC work is going but seeing as the whole fleet is to be replaced in the next few years if the ROSCO wants to keep going with it.

Only 707 commissioning is to be based at Clapham. Bit like 387s being based at Bletchley for commissioning. Once commissioned the TOC then buys then and can do its training.

However I believe its 707001/002 coming first that won't be in service any time soon as they need to do AC testing prior to the equipment being removed.
Click to expand...

No. First 707s in service March. Franchise ends 19 August, last 707s in service "by end of the year". Quotes by SWT from Rail mag.
 
spark001uk

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BRX said:
Yes it is. Running now.
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Unfortunately I'm in Cornwall this week so won't see the move. Might go up Monday and have a look round, tho it might have gone to the WCML by then, if it's the AC fitted pair?
 
Domh245

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spark001uk said:
Unfortunately I'm in Cornwall this week so won't see the move. Might go up Monday and have a look round, tho it might have gone to the WCML by then, if it's the AC fitted pair?
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that the AC equipment was for commissioning purposes at Wildenrath - I don't think that there is any reason that they'd need to do any AC running in the UK?
 
Class377/5

Class377/5

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spark001uk said:
Unfortunately I'm in Cornwall this week so won't see the move. Might go up Monday and have a look round, tho it might have gone to the WCML by then, if it's the AC fitted pair?
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Who said they are going on the WCML?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Domh245 said:
I was under the impression that the AC equipment was for commissioning purposes at Wildenrath - I don't think that there is any reason that they'd need to do any AC running in the UK?
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No 001/002 are coming to the UK with pans for AC commissioning to prove to ROSCO they can work on AC. This has been stated publicly. AC equipment will be reused afterwards.
 
spark001uk

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Class377/5 said:
Who said they are going on the WCML?
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You said that they would be tested on AC before the pans were removed, and I thought someone previously mentioned WCML, I may have been wrong.
 
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03_179

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Can anyone tell me is 707001 visible at all at Clapham?

I intend to pop there tomorrow to try and get a few photographs of it.
 
Class377/5

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Surprised there is only one unit. Was supposed to be done in pairs.
 
spark001uk

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I'm assuming there will be some sort of reveal planned for the first unit(s), any ideas when or where yet?
 
Matt Taylor

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Probably not until they start running in service which should be no later than March, all units in service by July.
 
fgwrich

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Class377/5 said:
Surprised there is only one unit. Was supposed to be done in pairs.
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Would that explain the rather surprising amount of container flats for break force then? 6 in pairs either side + 2 Ferrywagon translators does seem a bit much for one 5 car.
 
BRX

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The cl375 refurb drags between Derby and Ramsgate (using these same ROG 37s) have no translator or braking force wagons at all ... so how come they are necessary for the 707s?
 
59CosG95

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BRX said:
The cl375 refurb drags between Derby and Ramsgate (using these same ROG 37s) have no translator or braking force wagons at all ... so how come they are necessary for the 707s?
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I'd assume that would be down to the fact that 375s are probably heavier, and have Dellner couplings, so can be moved without the need for translators. Not sure about the 707s however on the coupling front.
 
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