Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

[infobleep]

Surely, we would have recognized it if it was that serious?

Wouldn't they have said that years ago before introduced low floors buses or they didn't have accessible toilets on the trains, not to mention accessible trains themselves.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[J-2739]

Wouldn't they have said that years ago before introduced low floors buses or they didn't have accessible toilets on the trains, not to mention accessible trains themselves.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

It was a bit different, where some couldn't even board a train because their condition/disabilities disallowed them to. In this day, just about anyone can board one, even with no toilet facilities.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is it possible that some 707s might be arrive in the UK in the same train as a 700 before they both go off to their respective depots (what loco hauls them through the tunnel?)?

 

[jopsuk]

Is it possible that some 707s might be arrive in the UK in the same train as a 700 before they both go off to their respective depots (what loco hauls them through the tunnel?)?

highly unlikely. 707s however might (and could) be delivered two at a time

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How's it looking with the number of units built, number being tested and those ready to be delivered to SWT?

 

[hwl]

In this day and age of equality and disability rights, I think new trains should have loos. Disabilities are not just confined to people in wheelchairs or the blind and deaf.

The idea is to increase the number of passengers on metro services which you don't maximise by adding 2 cars then taking away 1/3 of car...
The alternative to providing the extra capacity taken up by the disabled loos is then going for 11 or 12 car max and lengthening all the platforms again.

 

[jon0844]

There's a simple solution to the problem with toilets on metro trains. You keep the toilets at stations open, and fund staffing to enable that. It has to be LOADS cheaper than putting them on trains, and having to service them.

If some stations don't have toilets, how about building some?

Yes, they're going to need extra attention at times but make it part of a franchise to provide such facilities and work out the best way to fund something I'd regard as very important, along with accessible platforms, passenger information, ticketing facilities etc.

 

[infobleep]

The idea is to increase the number of passengers on metro services which you don't maximise by adding 2 cars then taking away 1/3 of car...
The alternative to providing the extra capacity taken up by the disabled loos is then going for 11 or 12 car max and lengthening all the platforms again.

Perhaps we should remove the disabled space because wheelchairs take up more space than other passengers. Also how many standing spaces do a mobility scooter take up?

Everything that isn't a standing person will take up more space.

I do think toilets at stations being open might be good instead. Even the accessibility loos, which require a key, are often closed when stations are unstaffed

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Perhaps we should remove the disabled space because wheelchairs take up more space than other passengers. Also how many standing spaces do a mobility scooter take up?

Everything that isn't a standing person will take up more space.

I do think toilets at stations being open might be good instead. Even the accessibility loos, which require a key, are often closed when stations are unstaffed

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Being a penny pincher you sometimes have to pay at the station whist on the train is free.

 

[spark001uk]

Talking of that, I was stood on the platform at Staines yesterday, and the toilets were closed. No reason given, but an apology note on each door from the station manager, saying alternative toilet facilities are provided on "most of our trains". What it didn't say was that 90% of the time they're all locked out.!

 

[Mordac]

Perhaps we should remove the disabled space because wheelchairs take up more space than other passengers. Also how many standing spaces do a mobility scooter take up?

Everything that isn't a standing person will take up more space.

I do think toilets at stations being open might be good instead. Even the accessibility loos, which require a key, are often closed when stations are unstaffed

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

But people can easily stand in a wheelchair space if it's not occupied.

 

[infobleep]

But people can easily stand in a wheelchair space if it's not occupied.

True they can but then but they can't if it is occupied.

Maybe toilets at more stations is the answer, especially in more rural areas served by metro style services where trains are less frequent at some points during the week.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Class377/5]

Is it possible that some 707s might be arrive in the UK in the same train as a 700 before they both go off to their respective depots (what loco hauls them through the tunnel?)?

No, the trains for a start would be so long there's hardly any places you could take them to be shunted.

highly unlikely. 707s however might (and could) be delivered two at a time

Plan was to deliver all 707s as pairs.

How's it looking with the number of units built, number being tested and those ready to be delivered to SWT?

They should be fairly finished now with the 717 order starting soon.

 

[Deepgreen]

The problem with the routes operated by 455s is that the ticket offices are often not staffed so the station loos are locked out of use.

In this day and age of equality and disability rights, I think new trains should have loos. Disabilities are not just confined to people in wheelchairs or the blind and deaf.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Requiring a toilet in the first place is surely not a disability issue, though? Where toilets are provided, the provision of facilities that are accessible to disabled people is already enshrined in standards.

 

[Goldfish62]

The idea is to increase the number of passengers on metro services which you don't maximise by adding 2 cars then taking away 1/3 of car...
The alternative to providing the extra capacity taken up by the disabled loos is then going for 11 or 12 car max and lengthening all the platforms again.

I'd be interested to know on which UK rolling stock the disabled toilet takes up a third of a carriage,because I can't think of any.

 

[hwl]

I'd be interested to know on which UK rolling stock the disabled toilet takes up a third of a carriage,because I can't think of any.

2 accessible toilets in a 10 car trains is equivalent to 1/3rd, one in each 5 car unit will take up circa half the space between the doors and carriage end in 700s so multiply that by 2...

 

[Mordac]

I'd be interested to know on which UK rolling stock the disabled toilet takes up a third of a carriage,because I can't think of any.

Can't be that far on a Voyager tbh.

 

[Goldfish62]

2 accessible toilets in a 10 car trains is equivalent to 1/3rd, one in each 5 car unit will take up circa half the space between the doors and carriage end in 700s so multiply that by 2...

Ah, I see where you're coming from, although it's somewhat less than a a third as there's standing room on tip up seats around the sides of the toilets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can't be that far on a Voyager tbh.

If Voyager carriages were three window bays long.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'd be interested to know on which UK rolling stock the disabled toilet takes up a third of a carriage,because I can't think of any.

Well if the aim is exaggeration, then what you'd probably do is assume (often wrongly) that the 20m vehicle is divided into 3 sections by the doors, so one end is 'a third'.

Then you'd probably include the wheelchair spaces, and their clear access requirements into 'the area', and ignore any flip down seats. But the wheelchair space etc should not be counted, because it would be present somewhere anyway in the absence of a universal toilet.

That's my theory anyway...

 

[jon0844]

Can you imagine how big the toilet would be if it was a third of a carriage?! That would be like Executive Bathroom Island...

(and imagine how many fare evaders could fit in there!)

 

[Peter Sarf]

The problem I see with toilets on stations is they are often locked and in many places a charge is made. The real impracticality though is that, for someone with a weak bladder, getting of a train to use the loo and then having to wait for the next train is very inconvenient. It is a problem that, once the problem is addressed by putting a toilet on the train, it immediately has to be a large toilet suitable for all passengers. So everyone has to suffer without a train toilet instead.

 

[physics34]

The problem I see with toilets on stations is they are often locked and in many places a charge is made. The real impracticality though is that, for someone with a weak bladder, getting of a train to use the loo and then having to wait for the next train is very inconvenient. It is a problem that, once the problem is addressed by putting a toilet on the train, it immediately has to be a large toilet suitable for all passengers. So everyone has to suffer without a train toilet instead.

I know a couple of south west trains customers who constantly moan that their trains (455s) dont have toilets whereas many trains to places like West Norwood do!!!!

Im sure if a survey was done, most passengers would be happy to sacrifice 16 seats per 10 car unit in exchange for having 2 toilets.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I know a couple of south west trains customers who constantly moan that their trains (455s) dont have toilets whereas many trains to places like West Norwood do!!!!

Im sure if a survey was done, most passengers would be happy to sacrifice 16 seats per 10 car unit in exchange for having 2 toilets.

EDIT :-
Apparently I have it the wrong way round.
Southerns 455s have the inter unit gangway plated over so impossible for any staff/passengers to use.
SWTs 455s have the doors locked so maybe only staff can use them.
So the below is a bit wrong . Still ironic though that units built with inter unit gangway connections have them subsequently disabled for passenger use.

Add to that the fact that SW trains do not seem to like people walking through the length of the train. That will be impossible to/from a 2-car 456. I have noticed that many 455s seem to have the inter unit gangway connection plated up - iirc that is on SW trains' 455s not Southern's 455s. Or have I got it the wrong way round - I get less use of 455s from Croydon since all the extra Electrostars have arrived and so I do take the availability of loos for granted.

 

[Monty]

Add to that the fact that SW trains do not seem to like people walking through the length of the train. That will be impossible to/from a 2-car 456. I have noticed that many 455s seem to have the inter unit gangway connection plated up - iirc that is on SW trains' 455s not Southern's 455s. Or have I got it the wrong way round - I get less use of 455s from Croydon since all the extra Electrostars have arrived and so I do take the availability of loos for granted.

That would be Southern, SWT's fleet still have their inter unit gangways in place albeit for staff use only.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Have the inter-unit gangways on SWT's 455s always been staff only?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Have the inter-unit gangways on SWT's 455s always been staff only?

Not always, in their first few years I was able to walk through from one unit to the other. This was certainly the case when I was commuting from Stoneleigh to Epsom between December 1985 and July 1993; given that the way out at those stations is at the opposite end of the train it was a good way of avoiding a long walk down the platform if I only just managed to catch a train.

I would deduce from those dates that it was around the mid 1990s that they started preventing this walk though ability.

 

[spark001uk]

Add to that the fact that SW trains do not seem to like people walking through the length of the train. That will be impossible to/from a 2-car 456. I have noticed that many 455s seem to have the inter unit gangway connection plated up - iirc that is on SW trains' 455s not Southern's 455s. Or have I got it the wrong way round - I get less use of 455s from Croydon since all the extra Electrostars have arrived and so I do take the availability of loos for granted.

Yes Peter wrong way, southern are plated up, which I was surprised about when I only noticed recently! I've been on 455s many years ago and walked thru. I've been on several swt ones recently but not tried walking thru so wouldn't know. I would've thought if they were there they would get used, even if only by staff for the purpose of doing tickets?

 

[Class377/5]

First pair due tonight

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O53138/2016/12/08/advanced

 

[trainmania100]

Does anyone have any assumptions where the 707 will be moved to after the delivery? Maybe Northam?

 

[43096]

Does anyone have any assumptions where the 707 will be moved to after the delivery? Maybe Northam?

I would expect Wimbledon to be involved as the home depot for them. They are being maintained by SWT in-house, not by Siemens.