Class 710 LO

[simple simon]

I noticed that above the passenger doors on these trains (the 710 1xx fleet) there are three route maps - West Anglia / Lea Valley, Romford - Upminster and Goblin.

This implies that LO foresee a possibility of these trains using the latter route as well. This is new information for me as I thought that the Goblin will only be using the 710 2xx fleet that is shared with the third rail Euston - Watford route.

 

[59CosG95]

I noticed that above the passenger doors on these trains (the 710 1xx fleet) there are three route maps - West Anglia / Lea Valley, Romford - Upminster and Goblin.

This implies that LO foresee a possibility of these trains using the latter route as well. This is new information for me as I thought that the Goblin will only be using the 710 2xx fleet that is shared with the third rail Euston - Watford route.

Indeed, a couple of the 710/1s have already done GOBLIN services on a few occasions.

 

[ijmad]

I noticed that above the passenger doors on these trains (the 710 1xx fleet) there are three route maps - West Anglia / Lea Valley, Romford - Upminster and Goblin.

This implies that LO foresee a possibility of these trains using the latter route as well. This is new information for me as I thought that the Goblin will only be using the 710 2xx fleet that is shared with the third rail Euston - Watford route.

Perhaps they're there mainly because some 710/1's have been in passenger service on the GOBLIN while they bedded in. But they could also provide cover for failed 710/2 units in some future recovery scenarios.

 

[SeaKing]

710103 was working the Goblin last Saturday.

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

710103 was working the Goblin last Saturday.

710103 and 105 had both on the Goblin a couple of weeks ago

 

[ijmad]

710103 was working the Goblin last Saturday.

Yeah but unless LO have changed their minds, as far as I understand it, 710/1s on the GOBLIN aren't supposed to last.

 

[simple simon]

aha! Well it will help provide a degree of network resilience if more trains (of one type) than usual are out of service.

Now I need to check to see if the 710 2xx have route maps for services other than Goblin and Euston Watford!

 

[Roger B]

aha! Well it will help provide a degree of network resilience if more trains (of one type) than usual are out of service.

Now I need to check to see if the 710 2xx have route maps for services other than Goblin and Euston Watford!

Thanks Simon. Speculation only gets you so far (and often that's no distance at all). Can't beat a bit of fact-based reporting.

 

[JonathanH]

Yeah but unless LO have changed their minds, as far as I understand it, 710/1s on the GOBLIN aren't supposed to last.

Are 710/1s to be allocated to Ilford? Isn't the fleet size basically exactly what is needed to cover Liverpool Street to Enfield / Cheshunt / Chingford and Romford to Upminster? There doesn't appear to be any need to mix 710/1 and 710/2 in operation on the distinct routes.

As has been pointed out in this thread, the use of 710103 and 710105 on the Gospel Oak to Barking line was related to the late delivery of 710256 and 710259. Now that 710259 and 710271 have arrived, it would appear that this cover is no longer needed and both 710/1s will go for West Anglia use.

 

[Roger B]

When is 710256 expected to have had its seats installed, etc, and to be in service? Thanks

 

[simple simon]

This tweet (of mine) includes a photo of the route maps above the doors - three route maps for three overhead wire AC routes!

https://twitter.com/citytransportin/status/1236411450127761414?s=20

(it seems that the tweet wont automatically open, so will need clicking to open).

 

[Roger B]

This tweet (of mine) includes a photo of the route maps above the doors - three route maps for three overhead wire AC routes!

https://twitter.com/citytransportin/status/1236411450127761414?s=20

(it seems that the tweet wont automatically open, so will need clicking to open).

Interesting. Includes GOBLIN, but doesn't include Euston - Watford DC.

 

[D365]

Interesting. Includes GOBLIN, but doesn't include Euston - Watford DC.

Would be a bit difficult for the AC-only Class 710/1s to service the Watford DC.

 

[Roger B]

Would be a bit difficult for the AC-only Class 710/1s to service the Watford DC.

Got me there - oops! Thanks D365. Everybody else - look away, nothing to see here. (D'ya think I'll get away with it?)

 

[87015]

When is 710256 expected to have had its seats installed, etc, and to be in service? Thanks

It’s effectively been replaced by 271 and therefore 256 should be considered an option unit for delivery purposes.

 

[D365]

It’s effectively been replaced by 271 and therefore 256 should be considered an option unit for delivery purposes.

Does that mean to say that 256 is effectively a pre-production unit?

 

[87015]

Does that mean to say that 256 is effectively a pre-production unit?

Not really, just it’s been dropped down the delivery schedule. Building the units has never been the problem.

 

[pne508]

I see from the notes on the railway centre picture of the day that these haven't gone down well with the locals of the Enfield/Cheshunt lines. The longitudinal seating is not liked and I don't blame them.

 

[Ethano92]

I see from the notes on the railway centre picture of the day that these haven't gone down well with the locals of the Enfield/Cheshunt lines. The longitudinal seating is not liked and I don't blame them.

I think it was predictable some people would complain, standing room is however needed. People on the longer Watford DC have got on with it about a decade now. New gen trains have the right ratio of seats to standing room. In all honesty I'd argue it's perfectly reasonable to be standing from as far out as Edmonton green and the full length of the Chingford line but everyone is of course different.

 

[BJames]

I see from the notes on the railway centre picture of the day that these haven't gone down well with the locals of the Enfield/Cheshunt lines. The longitudinal seating is not liked and I don't blame them.

People always have something to complain about, nothing's ever good enough. Too many seats = not enough standing room, more standing room = not enough seats. I'm a regular on this line and these trains are very much needed.

I think it was predictable some people would complain, standing room is however needed. People on the longer Watford DC have got on with it about a decade now. New gen trains have the right ratio of seats to standing room. In all honesty I'd argue it's perfectly reasonable to be standing from as far out as Edmonton green and the full length of the Chingford line but everyone is of course different.

It is, especially as a considerable chunk of people alight at Seven Sisters, just 8 minutes away from Edmonton Green... usually a seat will become available then, if not before.

 

[Elshad]

This tweet (of mine) includes a photo of the route maps above the doors - three route maps for three overhead wire AC routes!

https://twitter.com/citytransportin/status/1236411450127761414?s=20

(it seems that the tweet wont automatically open, so will need clicking to open).

I don't understand the "See opposite for other routes served by this train" instruction. All the routes that could possibly be served by that train (a 710/1) are on that diagram.

It can't be used on the Watford DC or the West London Line so what other routes are there? Am I missing something?

 

[ijmad]

This tweet (of mine) includes a photo of the route maps above the doors - three route maps for three overhead wire AC routes!

https://twitter.com/citytransportin/status/1236411450127761414?s=20

I like what they've done with Cambridge Heath and London Fields, I hope this will be brought over to the main tube map. Seems far clearer.

It can't be used on the Watford DC or the West London Line so what other routes are there? Am I missing something?

Literally not possible because the trains don't have shoes and both the WLL (partially) an the Watford DC (fully) are third rail territory.

Random question, can a 710/1 and 710/2 couple? Physically I'm sure, but also in software?

Also, I notice the 4x2 configurations on the Lea Valley Lines have both units with raised pantographs, but in the case of a failure, can one of the units power the other?

 

[James James]

Also, I notice the 4x2 configurations on the Lea Valley Lines have both units with raised pantographs, but in the case of a failure, can one of the units power the other?

"Power": no, there's no power transmission between units.
Drag: probably yes.

 

[theking]

People are getting to caught up in route maps it's just a route map!

Pretty sure the refurbished 378/1's have Stratford to Richmond/Clapham junction on them and last time I looked they didn't have a pantograph

 

[20atthemagnet]

Literally not possible because the trains don't have shoes and both the WLL (partially) an the Watford DC (fully) are third rail territory.

Random question, can a 710/1 and 710/2 couple? Physically I'm sure, but also in software?

Also, I notice the 4x2 configurations on the Lea Valley Lines have both units with raised pantographs, but in the case of a failure, can one of the units power the other?

710/2 and 710/1 are running completely different softwares, the later being many versions ahead. Its unclear if the software maturity on 710/1s support DC mode at all (equipment aside) The softwares are going in 2 completely different directions so I would say no for now.

In regards to 2nd question yes and no. It will move but many things on the dead unit wont work. They are two separate entities that talk to each other and allow basic comms/air/status/instructions/nothing more. In practice no train would remain in service with a pan defective or isolated either. As James said you’d be dragging a unit with alot of stuff off..Electrostars for example youd have emergency lighting and not much else.

Well said theking. Its a piece of card.

 

[Kite159]

People are getting to caught up in route maps it's just a route map!

Pretty sure the refurbished 378/1's have Stratford to Richmond/Clapham junction on them and last time I looked they didn't have a pantograph

Agreed, pretty sure the route maps on a 378/1 are the same as on the dual voltage versions, even though they will only ever work the East London line services

 

[Aictos]

There was two deliveries this week for London Overground and the Elizabeth Line being diverted via the Midland Mainline into London vice the West Coast Mainline with 37800 being the loco hauling them.

No idea what the unit numbers were but the Elizabeth Line unit was a 9 car set that I can confirm.

What interests me though is the place of origin was Worksop not Derby with the services being routed via Corby between Leicester and Bedford although I don't know why?

 

[Class 170101]

There was two deliveries this week for London Overground and the Elizabeth Line being diverted via the Midland Mainline into London vice the West Coast Mainline with 37800 being the loco hauling them.

No idea what the unit numbers were but the Elizabeth Line unit was a 9 car set that I can confirm.

What interests me though is the place of origin was Worksop not Derby with the services being routed via Corby between Leicester and Bedford although I don't know why?

Some units have been stored at Worksop until needed.

Would gauging around Leicester be the issue for the route via Corby? It could also be due to the two track section between Leicester and Kettering being busy with the route via Corby less so.

 

[BJames]

On 1122 from Enfield - Seven Sisters this morning.
I must say, a massive improvement on 2x317 which used to be on this service. Of course, the new trains coped easily with the amount of people. Would be interesting to see how many seats are still available at Edmonton Green on, say, the 1222 which is 4-car.

Not sure if this was a particular oddity in this unit but the announcements cut off the first couple of seconds (announcing "street" rather than "Silver Street"). The advert screen (or whatever its going to be used for) in front of me was off, but I had quite a lot of stuff so didn't bother going down and having a look to see if any others were working.

Also ran into someone I knew on the train, who (as above) started moaning about the lack of seats in peak time. I tried to explain the increase in capacity but this appeared to fall on deaf ears. I see now that it may take a while for people to get used to this on this route but it is a massive improvement nevertheless.

 

[samuelmorris]

On 1122 from Enfield - Seven Sisters this morning.
I must say, a massive improvement on 2x317 which used to be on this service. Of course, the new trains coped easily with the amount of people. Would be interesting to see how many seats are still available at Edmonton Green on, say, the 1222 which is 4-car.

Not sure if this was a particular oddity in this unit but the announcements cut off the first couple of seconds (announcing "street" rather than "Silver Street"). The advert screen (or whatever its going to be used for) in front of me was off, but I had quite a lot of stuff so didn't bother going down and having a look to see if any others were working.

Also ran into someone I knew on the train, who (as above) started moaning about the lack of seats in peak time. I tried to explain the increase in capacity but this appeared to fall on deaf ears. I see now that it may take a while for people to get used to this on this route but it is a massive improvement nevertheless.

You may be waiting a while, it still hasn't sunk in over at TfL Rail where 345s have been running with the same issue for almost 3 years now...
The audio cutoff problem has been an issue since day 1 for the 345s too, it's mostly resolved now, but still not perfect. (Still better than the DLR system though at least, which cuts the audio off every time a message is played).