Pete_uk
Established Member
Does that end look much more squared off?
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Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, not tapered, hence why the door pocket can be there.
Pete_uk
Established Member
Yes, it’s a shame that the original issue made it into production for the large bulk of the 80X fleet, when this shows what could have been done almost from the start. Though it’s a shame to see Hitachi still using their somewhat annoying pocket doors - they have long had an aversion to the “unreliable European plug doors” which was briefly broken on the 385 order.
Halish Railway
Established Member
Another thing worth noting is that there is a crease in the shape or the front end unlike other AT300s and 395s.
YorksLad12
Established Member
The paint job is reminding me of Northern Spirit!
Ethan1852
Member
Nice to see progress. It is worth mentioning however EMR have seemed to have delayed the introduction yet again. On there website under Intercity Fleet it says they will begin mainline testing in Late 2022 with introduction in Early 2024 instead of 2023.
Intercity | EMR
Take a look at the Class 222 fleet that operates our Intercity services.
www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk
Is there some kind of 'big bang' switchover plan from 222s to 810s? A whole year from mainline testing to service introduction seems somewhat long if it is then followed by a phased introduction.
As it is a new type of the 80X fleet, it need full testing unlike previous batches of the fleet.
As it is a shorter carriage with various other alternations it needs full type acceptance, this will be why it is longer than previous batches.
I'm so looking forward to trying one of these out!
I've been on the Azuma unit's they're nice but i found them a bit "bumpy". How do you think these will cope with the EMR with all it's bends and curves?
Maybe different as EMR will be 23 meter coaches versus 26 for LNER.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I thought it was 24m?
It could be, was Sure it was 23 but could be wrong, just know it isn’t standard 80x length.
Nicholas Lewis
On Moderation
Mechanically and electrically its the same and thats where a lot of the acceptance testing time goes so a year is just too long but if they achieve that they will doing better than several of their peers.
That maybe the case, but several of This class will go to Old Dalby test track as it is classed as a new fleet/build. That is where the time length comes from.
Plus, how do you do mechanically and electrically it’s the same? How do you know nothing has changed?
Don't they have much higher power engines than even the class 802s, and hasn't that power been accommodated under a shorter car length. That could certainly result in different failure characteristics.
I'd read a somewhere that there are to be 4 engines, which are uprated versions of those fitted to the 80x, and only 2 vehicles are to be fitted with traction packs, 4 bogies/ 8 motors, each motor being 330kw instead of the 300kw of the 80x.
Sam 76
Member
They are Lumo ones
So in approval terms that are quite different beasts. Given the problems associated with the introduction of some of the class 8xx trains, why are some here so desperate to rush them into service?
QSK19
Member
Indeed. Given that there seems to be no home lined up for the 222s, it’s not like EMR will be at risk of having no stock - and in any case, as EMR well knows from the ongoing 196 introduction fiasco having knock on effects on their Regional stock shortage, the TOC will keep their existing stock until the new ones are ready. So, even if there were a new home for the 222s, EMR would keep them for as long as needed.
As much as I’m really looking forward to seeing the 810s too, I’d rather they take a little longer (though not to the 196 extent!) to ensure everything goes smoothly as opposed to rushing them into service and then having endless teething problems.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Whilst the 810 might have much the same kit as the earlier AT300 series, don't forget it is a new length of bodyshell with no previous history of dynamics - the flexing, twisting and general crashing around our railway at up to 125mph. Mechanical vehicles can be influenced by vibration harmonics so these need to be established and understood before being signed off fit for use.
I remember the first time I rode in a class 47 cab and the rattle from the cooker whilst the engine was idling. As soon as the engine increased it's RPM the rattling stopped but it made me wonder why it has been a rattle for the last sixty years. The technicalities of railway engineering were perhaps in a different place back then.
The major structural differences are the shorter cars and the new front-end profile.
There will indeed be one extra traction genset, for 4 in total, and they have been uprated to 735 kW each from the Class 802's 700 kW (939 to 986 hp). The "much higher" might be a confusion with 800's engines, which are 560 kW (750 hp) each.
The formation will be DPTS-MS-TS-MC-DPTF, where all cars bar the TS carry a genset and the TS has the transformer instead. This is also a change from the five-car 802s, where the centre car is an MS instead, but I don't know the reason for or the significance of the change other than perhaps the shorter cars have forced a redistribution of equipment.
OK, maybe 'much higher' was a not quite true, but given the shorter car length*, all of that power is packed into a smaller space possibly bring with it a different temperature curve.
* unless the difference in length is wholly taken from outside the bogie centres, thereby reducing the overhang and need for accentuated tapers at the car ends.
Speed43125
Member
The requirement for 125 mph running while in diesel mode necessitated an extra Genset over the 802s and their implementation in pantograph cars.
You'll note that I said I can't advise on why they've gone from three to two cars fitted with powered bogies, not why they've added an extra genset. Besides which, the 802s can achieve 125 mph, can they not? My understanding was that the extra genset was the result of a need to keep or better Meridian timings.
The 802s can do 125mph on diesel. The extra genset is to match the 222s acceleration.
I'd imagine they were redistributing the equipment anyway and the centre car just makes the most sense for the pantograph.
Remember that being coupled together they need to have a certain distance between pantograph for the OHLE, going by the spacing for the class 360s the 810s can operate fine either if one of them is facing the wrong way.
Thanks but that post is from November 2019They are Lumo ones
Indeed you do need to allow adequate spacing*, but my understating of the formation is that the pantographs are going on the driving cars, in standard AT300 fashion. I say again that the unexplained change is that the centre car in an 810 is a trailer whereas in all five-car 802s it carries traction motors.
* = I've got the delayed trips on loco-to-loco-coupled ICE 2s to show for it
RailWonderer
Established Member
The IETS will be an inferior train to the Meridians they replace, the only thing they have going for them is the increased legroom in the airline seats. The Meridians improved on the Voyagers shortcomings and are a fine train all around It will be a huge loss to see them go.