Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Snow1964]

It's a test unit. It appears the WSP kit didn't work as intended on this occasion, apparently. That's why you do testing I suppose.

Although they will now have data (even if accidentally collected) on if WSP fails, how flat will wheels go, and do you need wheel skates, or how much lathe time do you require.

There are practical applications of this, if it happened at say Harpenden (pick any random location trains will operate), is there a lathe nearby. If not do you need to buy extra one to infill a geographic gap, or is it reasonable to drive train all way back to Derby at slow speed at quiet times, without creating shortage of units.

Ultimately if something like this means could be unscheduled out of service for week or two, do you need to buy extra unit, because it is slow to repair. More realistically would buying few extra bogies to allow quick swap be more economically sensible, then flats can be sorted in slow time whilst train continues.

 

[Nym]

Or, it’s really crazy to do brake tests on a like surrounded on all sides trees in leaf fall season, on a line that a RHTT doesn’t operate on to clear all the pesky leaves and mulch from.

I think any current train doing brake tests on the Dalby line during autumn would suffer the same.

Was always easy to get a slot in leaf fall season. Then watch the faces of my project manager drop when she realised we'd flatted all four wheels on the leading loco that needed to go back to Crewe to get turned.

 

[LowLevel]

Or, it’s really crazy to do brake tests on a like surrounded on all sides trees in leaf fall season, on a line that a RHTT doesn’t operate on to clear all the pesky leaves and mulch from.

I think any current train doing brake tests on the Dalby line during autumn would suffer the same.

The internal newsletter item regarding it definitely said the system had failed to operate due to a fault which was identified.

 

[Yew]

Or, it’s really crazy to do brake tests on a like surrounded on all sides trees in leaf fall season, on a line that a RHTT doesn’t operate on to clear all the pesky leaves and mulch from.

I think any current train doing brake tests on the Dalby line during autumn would suffer the same.

I wonder if it was intentional testing, to make sure that braking performance was acceptable in tricky conditions?

The internal newsletter item regarding it definitely said the system had failed to operate due to a fault which was identified.

Ah, never mind. Hopefully they've gathered some useful data from the event, though.

 

[Kneedown]

Or, it’s really crazy to do brake tests on a like surrounded on all sides trees in leaf fall season, on a line that a RHTT doesn’t operate on to clear all the pesky leaves and mulch from.

I think any current train doing brake tests on the Dalby line during autumn would suffer the same.

On the contrary. I think it makes absolute sense to do the tests in the worse adhesion conditions you can get.

 

[Eskimo]

On the contrary. I think it makes absolute sense to do the tests in the worse adhesion conditions you can get.

Absolutely. Health & Safety gone.. sensible!

 

[Bob Price]

From Twitter, 810001 passes Derby on 5Q47 under its own power. Apparently heading to Etched Park for tyre turning. Posted by Railcam

https://twitter.com/railcamlive/status/1729074830274670637?t=971ug4y-miJbGHRlqgM9-g&s=19

 

[QSK19]

Very impressive indeed - a nice side effect of the wheelflats that we get to see it on the mainline under its own power.

Anyway, for those who have knowledge of route clearance procedures, I thought that a train can’t operate under its own power until the class has been route cleared? Or does route clearance only have to be done ahead of passenger service? Or is there some sort of protocol whereby one can forego route clearance if the journey is for an urgent reason?

 

[londonmidland]

Someone posted a video of this on Facebook and they have the very distinct Class 80x electric ‘whine’ when departing.

 

[Ethan1852]

Here's a video at Derby from Tracey on X. #Derby my train to #Crewe is delayed oh well bit of spotting whilst I wait! #EMR. Wheel flat is quite noticeable. Looks really impressive though.

 

[Skymonster]

... and back to Old Dalby it’s gone. Nice to get a glimpse of the future, although I’m not holding my breath yet!

 

[800001]

... and back to Old Dalby it’s gone. Nice to get a glimpse of the future, although I’m not holding my breath yet!

Wasted journey, still got wheel flats.

 

[43066]

Wasted journey, still got wheel flats.

Seriously?

 

[800001]

Seriously?

Yep!!

 

[43066]

Yep!!

Bad enough to need to go for another turning? How embarrassing…

 

[800001]

Bad enough to need to go for another turning? How embarrassing…

Do trains not get flat wheels during emergency breaking? Am sure they do!

 

[43066]

Do trains not get flat wheels during emergency breaking? Am sure they do!

They can do, albeit usually not bad enough to go out of service, but the wheel lathe is supposed to sort them out.

Unless you’re suggesting it had cause to make an emergency stop en route back to the test centre? If so I’ll concede it’s a lot less embarrassing than a cock up on the Park!

 

[800001]

They can do, albeit usually not bad enough to go out of service, but the wheel lathe is supposed to sort them out.

Unless you’re suggesting it had cause to make an emergency stop en route back to the test centre? If so I’ll concede it’s a lot less embarrassing than a cock up on the Park!

I believe, not confirmed it’s 1 carriage that suffered flats during testing. Unsure what speed they occurred.
Suppose down fall of Dalby track, is it’s in cuttings surrounded by trees.
Hopefully if a fault with unit caused the flats, then all the test data should hopefully prevent it occurring while in service.

 

[43066]

I believe, not confirmed it’s 1 carriage that suffered flats during testing. Unsure what speed they occurred.
Suppose down fall of Dalby track, is it’s in cuttings surrounded by trees.
Hopefully if a fault with unit caused the flats, then all the test data should hopefully prevent it occurring while in service.

Unless I’m missing something here (if so apologies), the wheel flats occurred a few days ago, and the trip to the Etches lathe was to rectify that. You’re now suggesting it’s incurred flats again since yesterday?

If it has been tested again, presumably the same fault has recurred…

 

[800001]

Unless I’m missing something here (if so apologies), the wheel flats occurred a few days ago, and the trip to the Etches lathe was to rectify that. You’re now suggesting it’s incurred flats again since yesterday?

If it has been tested again, presumably the same fault has recurred…

I have not suggested at all that flats occurred since yesterday! Do not make up stuff and imply I have said something when I have not!

The flats occurred at Dalby, the unit went to etches park for the wheel lathe, the unit has not had the flats sorted and it is returning to Dalby with the same flats!

 

[43066]

I have not suggested at all that flats occurred since yesterday! Do not make up stuff and imply I have said something when I have not!

The flats occurred at Dalby, the unit went to etches park for the wheel lathe, the unit has not had the flats sorted and it is returning to Dalby with the same flats!

You noticed the question mark? I was asking you to clarify what you were saying. You are being rather cryptic - I have no idea why.

All I’m asking is why has the unit still got flats, when it’s just been in for a wheel turning? Presumably there wasn’t capacity (or some other issue) at the Park? If you know that to be the case, why not simply say so?

 

[800001]

You are being rather cryptic - I have no idea why.

All I’m asking is why has the unit still got flats, when it’s just been in for a wheel turning? Presumably there wasn’t capacity (or some other issue) at the Park? If you know that to be the case, why not simply say so?

I don’t know why it hasn’t been done, but when it left derby it had flats! I do have eyes and ears!!!

Nothing cryptic at all, Do you just like looking to create arguments?

 

[43066]

I don’t know why it hasn’t been done, but when it left derby it had flats! I do have eyes and ears!!!

Nothing cryptic at all, Do you just like looking to create arguments?

Not at all, but from your authoritative and confident statement that the trip was a “wasted journey”, I assumed you had some professional insight into the testing process of this unit, and were suggesting the flats were still serious enough to prevent testing continuing, or similar.

Clearly you don’t, so we are at completely crossed purposes.

 

[800001]

Not at all, but from your authoritative and confident statement that the trip was a “wasted journey”, I assumed you had some professional insight into the testing process of this unit, and were suggesting the faults were still serious enough to prevent testing continuing, or similar.

Clearly you don’t, so we are at completely crossed purposes.

Nothing authoritive at all about saying it’s a wasted journey when the unit still has flats, and yes I’m very confident in saying that, as my ears still work very well, so unless it suffered flats since leaving etches park onto main line then yes very confidently I shall say it’s a wasted journey.

 

[43066]

Nothing authoritive at all about saying it’s a wasted journey when the unit still has flats, and yes I’m very confident in saying that, as my ears still work very well, so unless it suffered flats since leaving etches park onto main line then yes very confidently I shall say it’s a wasted journey.

If the flats have been rectified to the point where testing can continue, it very clearly wasn’t a wasted journey, irrespective of what you might have thought you heard when it ran past. You do realise trains routinely run in service with minor wheel flats, to the point where it’s rare to encounter a unit without any, especially at this time of year?

I have no idea what point you are actually trying to make, so I’ll leave it there.

 

[800001]

If the flats have been rectified to the point where testing can continue, it very clearly wasn’t a wasted journey, irrespective of what you might have thought you heard when it ran past. You do realise trains routinely run in service with minor wheel flats, to the point where it’s rare to encounter a unit without any, especially at this time of year?

I have no idea what point you are actually trying to make, so I’ll leave it there.

Same flats in, same flats out, 35mph line speed back to Dalby. I’ll leave it there as well.

 

[Rxstron]

https://streamable.com/7gi0x2 here is my video of the 810 passing loughborough. clearly haven’t sorted out the wheelflats…

 

[43066]

https://streamable.com/7gi0x2 here is my video of the 810 passing loughborough. clearly haven’t sorted out the wheelflats…

Doesn’t sound great, albeit difficult to tell how bad it is from videos/standing on a platform. It would be great if anyone who is in a position to know could explain:

1. Whether testing is able to continue;
2. What happened that meant Etches Park weren’t able to rectify the flats to a better standard.

 

[800001]

Doesn’t sound great, albeit difficult to tell how bad it is from videos/standing on a platform. It would be great if anyone who is in a position to know could explain:

1. Whether testing is able to continue;
2. What happened that meant Etches Park weren’t able to rectify the flats to a better standard.

Testing will Not continue until the wheel flats on the centre car are fixed.

The train is limited to 35mph movement until the flats are sorted.

Only Hitachi/EMR staff will be able to say why the wheel flats were not touched at all at etches park, however due to contractual obligations I highly doubt they will post here on a public forum why they were not touched.

There is talk of unit moving to Doncaster IEP instead to get the wheels done, also talk of new bogie been sent to Old Dalby to do A bogie swap.

 

[43066]

Testing will Not continue until the wheel flats on the centre car are fixed.

The train is limited to 35mph movement until the flats are sorted.

Only Hitachi/EMR staff will be able to say why the wheel flats were not touched at all at etches park, however due to contractual obligations I highly doubt they will post here on a public forum why they were not touched.

There is talk of unit moving to Doncaster IEP instead to get the wheels done, also talk of new bogie been sent to Old Dalby to do A bogie swap.

Okay, are you saying you know any of this for a *fact*? If so how?

That’s all I was trying to glean before!