Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[LowLevel]

the company i work for (that does standard class catering for EMR) has received absolute confirmation that there will be no buffet bar. there will be a dedicated (and therefore i assume staff only) place that our trollies will be stored in - i'd think away from the kitchen too, since it will need to be accessible from standard class. it will be interesting to see what that will look like!

It'll be a cupboard of some description somewhere at best rather than a room, probably like the bike area. Not too novel a concept, even 156s and 158s were built with a catering nook and power socket for the tea urn.

 

[Anonymous10]

It'll be a cupboard of some description somewhere at best rather than a room, probably like the bike area. Not too novel a concept, even 156s and 158s were built with a catering nook and power socket for the tea urn.

Similar to the 197s you could say.

 

[bluelagoon8951]

It'll be a cupboard of some description somewhere at best rather than a room, probably like the bike area. Not too novel a concept, even 156s and 158s were built with a catering nook and power socket for the tea urn.

i currently work on 158s - there's nothing of the sort! no outlets, no "nook". we board, we stand in vestibules, we go through the train. hopefully it's better on the 810s.

 

[LowLevel]

i currently work on 158s - there's nothing of the sort! no outlets, no "nook". we board, we stand in vestibules, we go through the train. hopefully it's better on the 810s.

It's not there anymore, it was removed by East Midlands Trains when the units were refurbished circa 2008. The inner vestibules used to look quite different and had a payphone and Parcels locker in them, as well as the catering socket.

 

[Inthewest]

Photo attached from class 8xx photography group on Facebook, link attached below

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That looks very Eurostar-esk...

 

[Bornin1980s]

That looks very Eurostar-esk...

373 or 374?

 

[sykes]

Last I heard EMR were using a FISA Lean with an improved cushion (done by EMR and DCA Design). They did a video on it so I'd be suprised if they changed.

Unfortunately I suspect the Lean's poor table size and average legroom will still be present.

Seats are by dgdesign - plenty of information here https://www.davidgordonltd.co.uk/home/projects/east-midlands-railway/

The seat shell is a proven part but the foams and armrests are all designed afresh for EMR. We've worked very hard on comfort, seat angle and pitch.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Seats are by dgdesign - plenty of information here https://www.davidgordonltd.co.uk/home/projects/east-midlands-railway/

The seat shell is a proven part but the foams and armrests are all designed afresh for EMR. We've worked very hard on comfort, seat angle and pitch.

Thanks for that.

I take it "Enhanced" does not just mean first class ?. I am going by the two pictures showing same/similar seat with different insert in the headrest. At first I thought looks like the one under the heading "Enhanced seat geometry" is Standard/Second class and the picture below left being for First Class (written in the headrest). But they both have a spacer between the seats and sockets - So is the picture one below the "Enhanced seat geometry" picture the second class ?.

And welcome to the forum.

 

[sykes]

Thanks - Hello! I didn't realise I hadn't posted before, been lurking on here for years. This forum is a very useful resource!

The changes apply to both First and Standard; new cushions and arms throughout. The original-vs-enhanced images on the website are of the First Class seat. The photos of the mock-up show where new foam has been added to improve comfort and appearance. The studio renders below that show First and Standard side-by-side production design, which have been on display at various EMR stations over the last year.

Seat comfort is such a personal matter with lots of opinions and, rightly, some negative expectations based on recent new seats. The whole project set out with comfort at the centre of the seat and within the various requirements (including but not limited to fire, crash, weight, cost, durability, cleaning and maintenance) I think it'll be the best new seat on a UK train. I'll be reading everyone's reactions with interest!

 

[Energy]

Seats are by dgdesign - plenty of information here https://www.davidgordonltd.co.uk/home/projects/east-midlands-railway/

The seat shell is a proven part but the foams and armrests are all designed afresh for EMR. We've worked very hard on comfort, seat angle and pitch.

Ahh thank you, I got the name slightly wrong. They have a video on the EMR YouTube channel going into more detail as well.

 

[Jozhua]

Correct I was severely scalded ( still gave the scar on my arm after someone tipped thier entire drink over me in coach D of a Pendo back in Virgin days

Yikes! These rules often seem like dictat, but unfortunately they are born out of these accidents.

I would think people would be more careful when carrying hot drinks and try to carry them low down to avoid dropping them on people! But eliminating the risk by serving at seats probably makes the most sense.

Thanks - Hello! I didn't realise I hadn't posted before, been lurking on here for years. This forum is a very useful resource!

The changes apply to both First and Standard; new cushions and arms throughout. The original-vs-enhanced images on the website are of the First Class seat. The photos of the mock-up show where new foam has been added to improve comfort and appearance. The studio renders below that show First and Standard side-by-side production design, which have been on display at various EMR stations over the last year.

Seat comfort is such a personal matter with lots of opinions and, rightly, some negative expectations based on recent new seats. The whole project set out with comfort at the centre of the seat and within the various requirements (including but not limited to fire, crash, weight, cost, durability, cleaning and maintenance) I think it'll be the best new seat on a UK train. I'll be reading everyone's reactions with interest!

Whilst I'm sure reactions will be varied, it's always good to know the people on the ground designing these things have good intentions and are aware of passenger feedback!

I really like the seats on the 222s - fairly soft, lots of legroom, solid headrests, good plugs. They are just a bit worn. If these new seats are as good as those, then I'll count it as a great success!

 

[DHB1950]

Just noticed the Q paths for 3A15-18 are in RTT. Appears to be for one unit,

3A15 Kettering SS (1006) - Kentish Town (1105)
3A16 Kentish Town (1121) - Etches Park (1356½)
3A17 Etches Park (1534½) - Cricklewood (1841)
3A18 Cricklewood (2019) - Kettering SS (2131½)

Up workings fast line through Bedford, down workings stop for ~ 10 minutes platform 2 or 3. Presumably not going to run for a while.

 

[Bald Rick]

Just noticed the Q paths for 3A15-18 are in RTT. Appears to be for one unit,

3A15 Kettering SS (1006) - Kentish Town (1105)
3A16 Kentish Town (1121) - Etches Park (1356½)
3A17 Etches Park (1534½) - Cricklewood (1841)
3A18 Cricklewood (2019) - Kettering SS (2131½)

Up workings fast line through Bedford, down workings stop for ~ 10 minutes platform 2 or 3. Presumably not going to run for a while.

not too long a while, I suspect.

 

[QSK19]

Not sure if these have been posted yet; however there are a couple of pics on Flickr of 810001 with pan up.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Not sure if these have been posted yet; however there are a couple of pics on Flickr of 810001 with pan up.

Very nice, I do like the bronze ends which are classy. Definitely angular & chunkier in looks, like a sort of cross between 80x and 397

 

[Neptune]

i currently work on 158s - there's nothing of the sort! no outlets, no "nook". we board, we stand in vestibules, we go through the train. hopefully it's better on the 810s.

They were definitely built with them but most if not all will have been removed at some stage over the last 30 odd years.

Just because trains don’t have certain things now doesn’t mean they haven’t had them in the past.

 

[QSK19]

Very nice, I do like the bronze ends which are classy. Definitely angular & chunkier in looks, like a sort of cross between 80x and 397

I think there is a slight hint of 395 in there too. Either way, even though the change of front end design was necessary for the shorter carriage length, it’s nice to see something different. Combined with the colours, it looks good.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very nice, I do like the bronze ends which are classy

Not a fan myself, black or yellow would be nicer. My mind just processes it as faded yellow.

The interiors are similar per the mock-ups - quite bland and too much of that insipid purple.

 

[dosxuk]

Not a fan myself, black or yellow would be nicer. My mind just processes it as faded yellow.

I didn't even realise they were supposed to be bronze - looks like a very mucky white to me.

 

[Bornin1980s]

I initially thought they were yellow.

 

[Purple Train]

I thought they were silver!

 

[QSK19]

I initially thought they were yellow.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the colour is “champagne white”.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the colour is “champagne white”.

Yes, you could be right as something closer to champagne white seems to be the result as it appears more like "pastel bronze" rather than "metallic bronze".

Are metallic colours permitted for train ends, I thought these may not be because of sun glare reflection therefore a likely safety risk?

When EMR first debuted in 2019, secondary pastel colours were introduced for the 3 service types, "pastel bronze/champagne white" for Intercity, "mint green" for Electrics/Connect and "light grey/pastel silver" for Regional. This seems to have been dropped for Connect as there is no "mint green" visible on the 360s?

 

[sykes]

Yes, you could be right as something closer to champagne white seems to be the result as it appears more like "pastel bronze" rather than "metallic bronze".

Are metallic colours permitted for train ends, I thought these may not be because of sun glare reflection therefore a likely safety risk?

When EMR first debuted in 2019, secondary pastel colours were introduced for the 3 service types, "pastel bronze/champagne white" for Intercity, "mint green" for Electrics/Connect and "light grey/pastel silver" for Regional. This seems to have been dropped for Connect as there is no "mint green" visible on the 360s?

That's right, it's referred to as Champagne internally. I'm not aware of any issues around using metallic colours on front-ends. Quite a few examples internationally (Gautrain, CZ Pendolino, ETR600...)

The EMR sub-brands are:
EMR INTERCITY champagne (RAL 7048 Pearl Mouse Grey metallic to doors and livery details)
EMR REGIONAL silver (RAL 9006 White Aluminium metallic)
EMR CONNECT / Luton Airport Express - the initial green was changed to an icy blue (a BMW colour, "280 Glacier Blue Metallic")

 

[Yew]

the company i work for (that does standard class catering for EMR) has received absolute confirmation that there will be no buffet bar. there will be a dedicated (and therefore i assume staff only) place that our trollies will be stored in - i'd think away from the kitchen too, since it will need to be accessible from standard class. it will be interesting to see what that will look like!

To be fair, even when EMR buffet bars were in use, there was nothing more than trolley-fare in them. As much as I appreciate a proper, well-stocked buffet, since that was never the case anyway, then I don't mind hugely.

 

[david.stannard]

Very nice, I do like the bronze ends which are classy. Definitely angular & chunkier in looks, like a sort of cross between 80x and 397

Is there any news of the production of the Class 810 Aurora sets, or are they behind the Avanti Class 805s and 807s in the assembly line queue at Newton Aycliffe?

 

[800001]

Is there any news of the production of the Class 810 Aurora sets, or are they behind the Avanti Class 805s and 807s in the assembly line queue at Newton Aycliffe?

810004 is in the main test shed, couldn’t tell you anything else.
805010 has been seen at Aycliffe, so presume up to 805013 all various stage of testing.
Couldn’t tell you anything on 807002 is still
Only one seen.

 

[Killingworth]

810004 is in the main test shed, couldn’t tell you anything else.
805010 has been seen at Aycliffe, so presume up to 805013 all various stage of testing.
Couldn’t tell you anything on 807002 is still
Only one seen.

All these units seem likely to be running in revenue earning service many months after their intended introduction dates at the time they were ordered.

In other news we read of looming massive redundancies in train building companies due to lack of orders.

Who'd want be a train builder?

 

[QSK19]

All these units seem likely to be running in revenue earning service many months after their intended introduction dates at the time they were ordered.

Years in EMR’s case. Based on progress up to now, I would guess that the 810s won’t be in service until 2025. I believe that would make them 2.5-3 years overdue? I would defer on this to EMR insiders who frequent the forum; but I fully get that they are sworn to confidentiality and can’t put most information in the public domain.

There are, of course, circumstances behind the long length of time (eg the significant difference between these and the 80x requiring the whole suite of testing/certification) and that the 222s have no confirmed home to go to post-EMR (so there is no rush to get rid of them); but 2.5-3 years does seem a long time nevertheless.

 

[800001]

Rumours that 810001 has sustained serious wheelflats at Old Dalby, it’s stopped all testing until they figure out how to sort the wheel flats. Dalby does not have a wheel lathe.