Co-workers nonchalantly sharing Oyster Travelcards

[neilmc]

Sorry but as a non-Londoner I don't quite understand this discussion.

We have an Oyster card with pre-payment loaded in a drawer at home, if any of the family is going to London we simply take it out, use it, top up as necessary and bring back.

If we were going to London for several days I appreciate it might be an idea to buy a weekly travelcard but as I understand this is not a photocard (unless bought from a train station) and is "added to" the Oyster card we hold so who would such a travelcard belong to and how could it be deemed to be non-transferable?

 

[Deerfold]

Sorry but as a non-Londoner I don't quite understand this discussion.

We have an Oyster card with pre-payment loaded in a drawer at home, if any of the family is going to London we simply take it out, use it, top up as necessary and bring back.

If we were going to London for several days I appreciate it might be an idea to buy a weekly travelcard but as I understand this is not a photocard (unless bought from a train station) and is "added to" the Oyster card we hold so who would such a travelcard belong to and how could it be deemed to be non-transferable?

Oystercards with monthly or longer seasons must be registered to one person.

With a weekly travelcard it's less clear.

 

[snail]

I am proposing scrapping travel cards all together and making the price of each journey independently priced (therefore your example is of no relevance).

So if Oyster PAYG is so good, why is there a daily cap on fares to encourage multiple use? Each journey is independently priced, but there is a discount for regular use. You may attract a few non-users but are more likely to put off regular travellers, making the whole system more expensive or forcing TfL/TOCs to reduce services.

Interesting that my example is of no relevance. Is that because it shows your plan is flawed?

 

[LexyBoy]

So if Oyster PAYG is so good, why is there a daily cap on fares to encourage multiple use? Each journey is independently priced, but there is a discount for regular use.

In fairness, this is because of the existence of Travelcards. The premise of Oyster PAYG is that it would always be cheaper than the paper alternative no more than the paper ticket(s) required. This claim couldn't be made if there were paper (or pre-bought on Oyster) Travelcards but no capping.

 

[Deerfold]

In fairness, this is because of the existence of Travelcards. The premise of Oyster PAYG is that it would always be cheaper than the paper alternative. This claim couldn't be made if there were paper (or pre-bought on Oyster) Travelcards but no capping.

Cheaper or the same price, with the cap being the same price as the paper Travelcard.

 

[LexyBoy]

Somebody's paying attention! Post duly corrected.

 

[benk1342]

Oystercards with monthly or longer seasons must be registered to one person.

With a weekly travelcard it's less clear.

I think it is clear. From TfL's website:

Oyster cards that have a Travelcard or Bus & Tram pass on [them] are non transferable.

I.e., if there's a Travelcard loaded on your Oyster it is non-transferable, period.

I acknowledge that the next sentence says:

They cannot be used by anyone other than the registered owner.

Which is absurd with respect to seven-day Travelcards loaded onto unregistered cards. But that doesn't take away from the clear previous sentence.

EDIT:
The Conditions of Carriage, which are what actually binds you, are clearer:

Unless it has a valid season ticket on it, you can lend or transfer your Oyster card to another person for them to pay as they go. If you have a season ticket on your Oyster card, you cannot lend or transfer it to anyone else to pay as they go.

 

[Deerfold]

I think it is clear. From TfL's website:



I.e., if there's a Travelcard loaded on your Oyster it is non-transferable, period.

The question I as answering was how they determine who the travelcard should belong to. It's quite clear that you're not allowed to transfer one.

 

[causton]

And by the sounds of that extract, it is the 'owner' of the travelcard who is in the wrong ("YOU cannot lend") rather than the person who uses it when it's not theirs!

 

[LexyBoy]

And by the sounds of that extract, it is the 'owner' of the travelcard who is in the wrong ("YOU cannot lend") rather than the person who uses it when it's not theirs!

The person using it could be done for not having a valid ticket however.

 

[34D]

Somebody's paying attention! Post duly corrected.

Wasn't the original promise that it would be cheaper though.

If you have a season ticket on your Oyster card, you cannot lend or transfer it to anyone else to pay as they go.

Is silent on whether it can be lent to anyone else to use the travelcard bit!

 

[benk1342]

Is silent on whether it can be lent to anyone else to use the travelcard bit!

Fair point!

 

[Deerfold]

Wasn't the original promise that it would be cheaper though.

The cap was originally lower than the daily travelcard price - as an inducement to get people to stat using Oyster. At the time the promise was that using Oyster would be cheaper.

However there was, so far as I know, no promise that this would always be the case - and when the prices were equalised it was fairly well publicised.

 

[faddy]

Would it be illegal for to use someone else's Oyster card (with no railcard loaded on it) which has a Travelcard loaded on it, for PAYG use outside the zones covered by the Travelcard? A fairly unusual scenario, I must admit.

 

[LexyBoy]

I think (from my recollection of the conditions) it would, the Oyster card (not just the products stored on it) cannot be used by someone else if it has a season ticket or railcard or other discount loaded on it.

 

[Goatboy]

However they can share a (non-discounted) PAYG card. In some cases this will not cost the holder of the card any extra money, if they are (or are going to be) capped anyway. That is permitted, irrespective of whether or not the other person is going to be travelling effectively for free.

So effectively then you can share a one day travelcard on an Oyster, but not a longer duration one. That sounds as clear as mud, well done TFL.

The only sensible way to do this is just make Oyster cards non-transferrable. Saying you can sometimes lend them to a friend but sometimes can't depending on blah blah is just silly and it's no wonder people do it.

 

[tbtc]

So effectively then you can share a one day travelcard on an Oyster, but not a longer duration one. That sounds as clear as mud, well done TFL.

The only sensible way to do this is just make Oyster cards non-transferrable. Saying you can sometimes lend them to a friend but sometimes can't depending on blah blah is just silly and it's no wonder people do it.

I think that saying "you can share a one-day travelcard but not a period travelcard" was a fairly clear distinction

Normal practice is to require a photo for tickets of a longer duration (i.e. discouraging "sharing" of longer tickets)

 

[neilmc]

But as far as I can see you do NOT need either a photocard nor any registration to put a 7-day travelcard on Oyster, so surely people can share them with impunity all they like.

(Not that that's a big issue surely as only one person's using it at once, and we do this with Stagecoach Megariders all the time)

 

[RJ]

So effectively then you can share a one day travelcard on an Oyster, but not a longer duration one. That sounds as clear as mud, well done TFL.

You can transfer an unregistered PAYG card, which is pretty simple in itself. Things start getting complicated when people confuse themselves by drawing inferences that aren't supposed to be drawn - there is no such thing as a One Day Travelcard on Oyster Cards, hence no need to make the comparison with a season Travelcard.

 

[yorksrob]

My employer has an all zones company West Yorkshire metrocard which can be lent to any employee on work business. Does TFL run a similar scheme ?

 

[island]

Some TOCs sell bearer season tickets, normally at 50% more than the price of a normal one.

 

[elagueesti]

How would anyone get caught sharing an Oyster travelcard? The three times in my life I've been asked for my Oyster card by an RPI on a TFL service (and I have commuted during peak and off-peak hours for some years), there was no question of me providing any ID to prove that I was the valid owner of the Oyster or not. How on earth do RPIs check the card belongs to the person presenting it? What is there to stop people sharing their Oyster cards?

 

[dlj83]

I recently read that to apply for an Oyster PAYG refund you are required to provide proof of address and photographic I.D before you can get a refund. I am assuming that is how they check.

 

[Mojo]

How would anyone get caught sharing an Oyster travelcard? The three times in my life I've been asked for my Oyster card by an RPI on a TFL service (and I have commuted during peak and off-peak hours for some years), there was no question of me providing any ID to prove that I was the valid owner of the Oyster or not. How on earth do RPIs check the card belongs to the person presenting it? What is there to stop people sharing their Oyster cards?

In normal circumstances they would not check, and to be honest in reality they are not too worried about people sharing tickets (unless multiple people are using the same ticket at once of course). The real reason for the restriction is most likely to assist with the various legal consequences that may arise through (mis)use of such a ticket.

A Photocard prevents a ticket which has been stolen, or reported as lost, from being used, as eventually it will be inspected, and seen that it isn't the owner's. With Oyster if I lose my annual Travelcard, or it gets stolen, the card can be hotlisted, and will no longer work.

There are tickets, such as Staff passes, and Freedom passes, where there could be some significant cases of loss as a result of misuse. Consequently, these Oyster cards are accompanied by a photograph of the person to whom they are issued.

To answer your first question; if an investigation was being carried out as a result of misuse of an Oyster card, or if someone was trying to be traced via their Oyster card history, then it would be possible to find out.

 

[AndyLandy]

Agreed. I know that some people buy a Travelcard because it is easier/simpler/more convenient even though with their particular pattern of use PAYG would be cheaper. This is particularly true with out-boundary season ticket holders, who might buy a Travelcard season yet only make one return tube journey a day. So I think getting rid of Travelcards might be a mistake.

Most operators of public transport seem to realise that passengers appreciate being able to buy season tickets - they presumably belive they make more money overall doing this. London's is only unusual in allowing so many varied forms of transport on the one card.

My local bus company has a day ticket for £3.60 off-peak. The return fare to my nearest town is £2.80. If we have to pay a fare on each bus we caught I suspect my wife and I would drive, even if the individual fares dropped. I doubt dropping the fares would attract many new users. As it is, we can go for a day out without planning what we're doing, knowing that we've paid for our transport.

The convenience is one of the biggest factors. Whenever I make a day trip to London from Southampton, I invariably buy an Outboundary travelcard. Often I'll only end up making one or two journeys within the zones, but I far prefer knowing that when I'm in London, I have a means of getting about and I don't have to think about it. For longer stays, I use my Oyster card, and the caps on that mean I don't have to think about it, I just turn up and ride.

In Southampton, I have an annual season ticket for bus services, mostly for commuting to/from work, but also for leisure travel. The same thing applies, I can just turn up and ride without worrying about how much I'm amassing in travel costs.