Concerns over Heathrow Express

[Mikey C]

I doubt that the HEx/Connect arrangements will last to Crossrail opening. The HEx 25 year concession on NR tracks runs out in 2023, and Heathrow are keen to get government support for expansion. The cards are all with the DfT, and to an extent TfL. HEx is perceived as having given an overpriced service to Londoners, and they will not be allowed to get away with that again. Crossrail will fillet much of their market anyway. Every recent decision by the regulatory/competition authorities (Heathrow contribution to Crossrail etc, access charges to Heathrow for Crossrail, etc) has gone against Heathrow.

I expect that there will, shortly before opening, be a "buy out" of the HEx/Connect arrangements by Crossrail. Setting a price will be interesting.

Regarding any inadequacy of the Piccadilly Line to Heathrow, I remember how brilliant it seemed when it opened in the late 1970s compared to the old bus access. Everything is relative.

If LHR want approval for Runway 3 and Terminal 6, then the only way to reduce the severe pollution problems around the area is to get more people using public transport to get there. Surcharges for Crossrail users won't wash

As for why people pay the ripoff price for HEx, it's because the Piccadilly Line is such a horrible journey especially after a long flight, when you're tired and miserable and just want to go home or to your hotel!

 

[Roast Veg]

When last I had to choose my preferred method to get home from LHR after a long hot summer flight, I specifically wanted to go by HX or HC for the air conditioning alone. Ended up with HX because of a minimal HC service on the day.

 

[berneyarms]

Although i have never been on an Airplane i have still done lots of International travel by train / ferry / bus / car and when i go to other cities in foreign countries i never look at and plan the city transport until i arrive in that city. I have also seen huge amounts of people at Heathrow / Gatwick / Stansted / Luton who don't have a clue on how to get to London. These are the sorts of people who Heathrow Express take advantage of and scam. Not everyone plans before they arrive.

Yes there may be a few staff members that are helpful. But the vast majority of them (probably at least 90% of them) tell lies and mislead customers. I have caught them myself on many occasions lying to customers.

I think that the fact that passengers are being misled and lied to and having information hidden from them on purpose is what makes it a scam.

Well I think you aren't exactly representative of most travellers being honest about it.

Most people I know do some research beforehand and are informed.

And I seriously doubt whether the majority of HEx passengers are there because they have been "scammed" as you put it.

And at the same time, many people (including myself) will choose to use it when we wish simply because of the frequency, luggage facilities, and the lack of overcrowding as on local commuter services. I've used HEx, HC, Piccadilly line, Bus to get to/from Heathrow on different occasions - each depending upon where I was going, what time of day, and what my time constraints were.

 

[berneyarms]

It doesnt need a majority of people to fall for it to be a scam Getting people to buy a service using willfully dishonest sales practices is what makes it a scam.

I am not defending dishonest sales practices. I've said that several times.

At the same time I'm not sure that I would expect Heathrow Express promotional literature to tell people that the Tube operates from the airport- it's a private company advertising its service. Why would it include a competing service?

I would expect the airport itself to have signage for both, which it clearly does.

The issue I would agree with is that staff should clearly advertise HEx in a responsible manner.

But the fact remains that there is a legitimate market for the HEx, and which is not restricted to wealthy business people as some seem to believe.

It may not be what you want to use, but there is a significant number of people for whom it suits their needs (myself included on occasion).

 

[Clip]

Although i have never been on an Airplane i have still done lots of International travel by train / ferry / bus / car and when i go to other cities in foreign countries i never look at and plan the city transport until i arrive in that city. I have also seen huge amounts of people at Heathrow / Gatwick / Stansted / Luton who don't have a clue on how to get to London. These are the sorts of people who Heathrow Express take advantage of and scam. Not everyone plans before they arrive.

Yes there may be a few staff members that are helpful. But the vast majority of them (probably at least 90% of them) tell lies and mislead customers. I have caught them myself on many occasions lying to customers.

I think that the fact that passengers are being misled and lied to and having information hidden from them on purpose is what makes it a scam.

Im sorry but this cannot be allowed to go on. Time and time again things are explained to you about HeX and its operation but you simply do not listen to a word of it and continue with calling it a scam - of which it is not.

If you are not going to listen and understand then you really shouldnt be posting anymore - nor calling the staff there the 'Blue gestapo'.

 

[Clip]

Lets get one fact straight before anymore discussion about a scam or misleading practices carries on.

HeX are NOT a TOC and they DO NOT have to abide by the rules and regulations as set out in the NCoT.

They can tell anyone who asks them to use the HEX as they are under NO obligation to tell them otherwise. If you dont understand this then you shouldnt really be posting about their operation in such a false and defamatory way.

 

[bb21]

The vast majority of those 60 million people have probably been scammed in to using the Heathrow Express due to the fact that the cheaper Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line services are very hidden and poorly publicised.

Proof? :roll:

As mentioned multiple times by other posters previously, HEX serve a very useful purpose.

Overpriced they may be in some people's eyes when booking on the day. They have very evidently filled a gap in the market and done very well.

 

[matt_world2004]

Lets get one fact straight before anymore discussion about a scam or misleading practices carries on.

HeX are NOT a TOC and they DO NOT have to abide by the rules and regulations as set out in the NCoT.

They can tell anyone who asks them to use the HEX as they are under NO obligation to tell them otherwise. If you dont understand this then you shouldnt really be posting about their operation in such a false and defamatory way.

They however cannot willfully lie though and saying they are the only rail service into central London is a fundamental lie

 

[bb21]

Yes there may be a few staff members that are helpful. But the vast majority of them (probably at least 90% of them) tell lies and mislead customers. I have caught them myself on many occasions lying to customers.

That is a very serious allegation for which I hope you have concrete proof.

 

[Taunton]

Lets get one fact straight before anymore discussion about a scam or misleading practices carries on.

HeX are NOT a TOC and they DO NOT have to abide by the rules and regulations as set out in the NCoT.

They can tell anyone who asks them to use the HEX as they are under NO obligation to tell them otherwise. If you dont understand this then you shouldnt really be posting about their operation in such a false and defamatory way.

Let's get something else straight then. Heathrow airport is part of the UK, and therefore normal UK laws apply there. Just because a rail service is not part of the main network does not mean they can act like some banana republic with members of the public in there. There are a whole range of common laws and regulations against this, in particular the Competition & Markets Authority takes an active interest in any one-sided trading.

Furthermore, it is in an effective monopoly position as the principal airport for London, and to a considerable extent the whole of the UK. As a result its charges and many aspects of its operations such as slots for aircraft are regulated by a government body, the Civil Aviation Authority. This is why the CAA rejected the large contribution Heathrow initially offered Crossrail, and substituted a much lesser amount - because under the terms of the regulation, Heathrow can just add any such expenditure to their asset base, and according to the formula recover this in their charges to airlines, including their own profit margin on top.

So although privately owned, the airport is substantially government regulated. Just like TOCs are private, but many aspects are regulated, just in a different manner.

The manner in which the staff present themselves as some form of customer assistance but then misrepresent the availability of transport options and sell HEx tickets, to their personal advantage as they are, as stated above, on sales commission, is what this part of the discussion here refers to. Those of us who regularly come through the airport have seen this going on for some time. It's not a lot different to the taxi touts at Russian airports who want US$ 200 to take you from one terminal to the other.

 

[coppercapped]

Plenty of warning about different scams/ rip offs on the internet and that doesnt make them suddenly morally right
*Cropping a tube map to deliberately omit the heathrow branch of the picadilly is bordering on scam territory. People will pick up a map and assume that is the tube map there is no disclaimer saying the map only covers central London no arrows indicating where the cropped lines go

If one is traveller to London from regions where old maps used to say "Here be Dragons" then usually one has a hotel or some other accommodation booked in advance. The websites of these establishments often have a button labelled "How to find us" which gives the address and travel information from various starting points - and those establishments which are used to dealing with international travellers often give instructions for people starting from the airports.

Printed and on-line travel guides are also useful sources of information.

I say again - there are many sources of information on "The Internet" which one can read before even setting foot in the UK. The number of people who arrive by air and have no clue on how to reach their destination is vanishingly small.

 

[coppercapped]

The manner in which the staff present themselves as some form of customer assistance but then misrepresent the availability of transport options and sell HEx tickets, to their personal advantage as they are, as stated above, on sales commission, is what this part of the discussion here refers to. Those of us who regularly come through the airport have seen this going on for some time. It's not a lot different to the taxi touts at Russian airports who want US$ 200 to take you from one terminal to the other.

So, fundamentally, this whole discussion is not really about the advantages and disadvantages of HEx or HConn and the effect on pathing trains on the GW or the Piccadilly Line or buses - but about some people being upset about HEx's apparent sales practices at Heathrow.

Then take the matter of sales techniques up with the CAA or the Competitions and Markets Authority or Which? but stop pretending that the HEx train service is a scam.

 

[matt_world2004]

If one is traveller to London from regions where old maps used to say "Here be Dragons" then usually one has a hotel or some other accommodation booked in advance. The websites of these establishments often have a button labelled "How to find us" which gives the address and travel information from various starting points - and those establishments which are used to dealing with international travellers often give instructions for people starting from the airports.

Printed and on-line travel guides are also useful sources of information.

I say again - there are many sources of information on "The Internet" which one can read before even setting foot in the UK. The number of people who arrive by air and have no clue on how to reach their destination is vanishingly small.

Still does not detract from the scam element though

 

[Tetchytyke]

T"The only rail service to London is this way, the only way to central London by train is that way

Heathrow Express/Connect services are the only rail service to Central London. London Underground isn't a rail service.

There are a whole range of common laws and regulations against this, in particular the Competition & Markets Authority takes an active interest in any one-sided trading.

There isn't any one-sided trading. Heathrow Airport operate Heathrow Express for people who want a quick and comfortable ride into London, and Connect services for people who want to pay a bit less. They allow London Underground into the terminals, they allow London Buses into the terminals, they allow National Express and Green Line in, they allow non-London local buses in.

One thing they don't have is a monopoly.

The last time I flew from Heathrow it was my honeymoon and I'd spent £4000 on the holiday. I'd just spent £40 on champagne for my new wife at Searcy's in St Pancras. Why the hell would I then want to ruin that by sitting on a noisy, dirty, baking hot and smelly Piccadilly Line train for an hour to save a tenner? Coming back I'd just sat on a plane from Dubai for seven hours, why would I then want to sit on the tube for an hour in the middle of July when I could use an air-conditioned train with free wifi and mobile charging?

As for claiming it is the fastest way to Central London...it is. TfL's journey planner says it is 49 minutes from Heathrow T3 to Oxford Circus on Heathrow Express, or 59-62 minutes on the tube.

 

[hassaanhc]

Heathrow Express/Connect services are the only rail service to Central London. London Underground isn't a rail service.



There isn't any one-sided trading. Heathrow Airport operate Heathrow Express for people who want a quick and comfortable ride into London, and Connect services for people who want to pay a bit less. They allow London Underground into the terminals, they allow London Buses into the terminals, they allow National Express and Green Line in, they allow non-London local buses in.

One thing they don't have is a monopoly.

The last time I flew from Heathrow it was my honeymoon and I'd spent £4000 on the holiday. I'd just spent £40 on champagne for my new wife at Searcy's in St Pancras. Why the hell would I then want to ruin that by sitting on a noisy, dirty, baking hot and smelly Piccadilly Line train for an hour to save a tenner? Coming back I'd just sat on a plane from Dubai for seven hours, why would I then want to sit on the tube for an hour in the middle of July when I could use an air-conditioned train with free wifi and mobile charging?

As for claiming it is the fastest way to Central London...it is. TfL's journey planner says it is 49 minutes from Heathrow T3 to Oxford Circus on Heathrow Express, or 59-62 minutes on the tube.

Definitely agree with you there. £20 or so is nothing when people have spent hundreds, if not thousands, on flights, hotels and other holiday expenses. Most people when going somewhere unfamiliar will research beforehand and plan everything in order to save time and hassle.

Anyone who has used the Piccadilly Line will know just how slow and overcrowded it is. Indeed living locally on the Heathrow branch I go out of my way to avoid it, even when it would be the fastest route to Z1 (Hammersmith is the limit of what I can tolerate). Really hate the ride quality of the 73ts and the state of the track in places. Even Heathrow Connect alone is way better simply because of the air conditioning and much nicer ride quality. Never travelled on Heathrow Express, but I don't consider it any different to the Virgin vs London Midland choice on the WCML.

 

[Clip]

Let's get something else straight then. Heathrow airport is part of the UK, and therefore normal UK laws apply there. Just because a rail service is not part of the main network does not mean they can act like some banana republic with members of the public in there. There are a whole range of common laws and regulations against this, in particular the Competition & Markets Authority takes an active interest in any one-sided trading.

.

If LuL or even the Heathrow Connect partnership want to heavily staff the entrance to the relevant stations with thier own staff to try and get some custom then there is nothing stopping them from doing so as they are a service provider.

The fact they dont speaks more about them then it does about HeX and their staff.

Therefore it is not one sided training as you claim but two other companies not really caring about their business from inside Heathrow which then means the CMA will not be interested in the slightest.

 

[coppercapped]

Still does not detract from the scam element though

My answer in post #128 applies.

 

[edwin_m]

Chris Grayling, Transport Secretary, must come through Heathrow from government engagements fairly regularly, passing by those self-same ticket touts in arrivals, and one would hope the half-truths and sneaky statements would come to his attention.

But would he see them as something to condemn or something to emulate?

 

[matt_world2004]

My answer in post #128 applies.

So the send money scam emails are acceptable because the recipient should have done theirnresearch beforehand. This sounds kike victim blaming to me

 

[Clip]

So the send money scam emails are acceptable because the recipient should have done theirnresearch beforehand. This sounds kike victim blaming to me

That doesnt even make sense as an anology seeing how the scame emails are sent without consent of the recipient and have their own name called phishing.

Come on if you are trying to prove a not very valid point then you must do better than that

 

[coppercapped]

So the send money scam emails are acceptable because the recipient should have done theirnresearch beforehand. This sounds kike victim blaming to me

What on earth are you on about? What have scam emails got to do with HEx representatives selling tickets in the airport? And what is 'kike' anyway, did you mean 'kick'?

These are all rhetorical questions - I don't need an answer.

 

[Clip]

What on earth are you on about? What have scam emails got to do with HEx representatives selling tickets in the airport? And what is 'kike' anyway, did you mean 'kick'?

These are all rhetorical questions - I don't need an answer.

Kike is a slure about a Jewish person so I have no idea why he wanted to throw ithat in the mix.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So the send money scam emails are acceptable because the recipient should have done theirnresearch beforehand. This sounds kike victim blaming to me

What on earth are you going on about?

Caveat emptor is one of the oldest legal principles.

You'll be telling me next that Fortnum and Mason should stop selling vinegar at £100/litre because Aldi will sell you a bottle for 30p.

 

[matt_world2004]

What on earth are you on about? What have scam emails got to do with HEx representatives selling tickets in the airport? And what is 'kike' anyway, did you mean 'kick'?

These are all rhetorical questions - I don't need an answer.

So using your logic all scams should be legal because people now have the internet now and should conduct research beforehand :?

 

[matt_world2004]

What on earth are you going on about?

Caveat emptor is one of the oldest legal principles.

You'll be telling me next that Fortnum and Mason should stop selling vinegar at £100/litre because Aldi will sell you a bottle for 30p.

I dont think fortnam and mason lies about the existence of aldi though does it? Or gets people to pose as local information and then deny that cheaper vinger exists

 

[swt class 450]

It is clear though that they are running a scam. What they do is hide information and lie to and mislead customers in order to get people who are unaware (particularly the foreign tourists) to pay for the Heathrow Express services.

When someone asks any of the Heathrow Express staff around the airport how they can get to London they only ever tell them about the Heathrow Express but not any of the other options such as the Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line services. When someone goes to one of their ticket offices and asks to buy a ticket to London they automatically sell them a ticket for the Heathrow Express when they should really be asking them if they want the Heathrow Connect service or the Heathrow Express service. Similarly when someone goes to one of their TVMs the first tickets they will see are the Heathrow Express tickets while the Heathrow Connect tickets are much more hidden.

I have seen many of their staff on many different occasions tell people that the Heathrow Express is the only way to get to London. I have seen a member of staff lie to someone who asked about other options telling them that Heathrow Connect takes one hour and Piccadilly Line takes two hours (and the services were running completely normally. Their staff will do anything they can and lie as much as they like just to make as many passengers (particularly the foreign tourists who are unaware) pay the ludicrously overpriced Heathrow Express fares. I could easily list about 20 different lies i have heard them say. All of this is basically scamming. They are lying to and misleading customers on purpose. The Heathrow Express "blue gestapo" staff are pretty much just as bad as the Gatwick Express "red gestapo" staff.

There are an enormous amount of people who wouldn't use the Heathrow Express if they knew about the various other options.

Here is a price comparison of the various different rail options (prices shown are paper tickets bought on the day):

•Heathrow Connect Train
single - std - day - anytime - £10.30
return - std - open - anytime - £20.60

•Heathrow Express Train
single - std - day - offpeak - £22.00
single - std - day - anytime - £25.00
return - std - open - anytime - £37.00
single - 1st - day - anytime - £32.00
return - 1st - open - anytime - £55.00

•South West Trains (from Feltham)
[with Bus included]
single - std - day - anytime - £8.60
return - std - day - anytime - £16.90
return - std - open - anytime - £17.20
single - 1st - day - anytime - £12.10
return - 1st - open - anytime - £24.20

•South West Trains (from Feltham)
[without Bus included]
single - std - day - anytime - £7.10
return - std - day - anytime - £13.90
single - 1st - day - anytime - £10.60
return - 1st - day - anytime - £21.20

•Underground Train (Piccadilly Line)
single - std - day - anytime - £6.00
return - std - day - anytime - £12.00

As you can see the Heathrow Express is ludicrously overpriced. Most people will not want to spend that sort of money for a very short journey just to get from an Airport in to a City. If people were actually aware of these various other cheaper options (which most people are not) then i am 100% sure that far more people would use them instead of the Heathrow Express services.

If someone wants a quick fast train to London Paddington then they would use the Heathrow Connect if they knew about it. It takes 8 to 12 minutes longer and is half the price. If someone wants to save more money (and even more if they use contactless cards or oyster cards) and need to reach Central London then they would take the Piccadilly Line if they knew about it. There are many people who do not mind the longer journey on the Piccadilly Line services. And for people who do want a quicker journey then they can take the Heathrow Connect services which are almost just as quick (but yet much cheaper) than Heathrow Express services.

What Heathrow Airport need to ensure is that the Heathrow Connect and Heathrow Express and Piccadilly Line are all equally advertised around the airport as each other. Seeing as they actually own and run the Heathrow Connect they have no excuse for not advertising it properly. I am aware that they don't own and run the Piccadilly Line but as it serves the Airport they still have no excuse for not advertising that properly either. The public transport at Heathrow Airport is a disgrace to foreign visitors. I don't think it leaves a good impression for them to have to empty their wallets to pay for a ludicrously overpriced service when they could have got it much cheaper.

Although Heathrow Express is not part of National Rail or the NRCOC they still have to listen to the various consumer laws and competition laws and various other laws. But unfortunately Heathrow Express seem to continue to ignore them. The Heathrow Express can not use the fact that they are not part of National Rail and NRCOC as an excuse to mislead and scam people. All three options need to be equally promoted all around the Airport and staff need to equally tell passengers about all three options.

I still 100% firmly believe that Heathrow Express are running a huge scam operation.

 

[NickBucks]

Many points here are valid and I have personal experience as I travel through Heathrow regularly. It is funny how the "blue gestapo" back off when they realise the client is a UK person who may have some understanding of the options available. I disagree with your conclusion. If I go into Sainsbury's I do not see any posters advertising the cost of exactly the same product eg Kelloggs Cornflakes in Tesco, Lidl,Aldi, Morrisons, Asda etc. They are not forced to do so. Why should Heathrow Ltd ( which is not state owned but owned by a private company I believe ) have to behave differently ? The onus is on the consumer to do their own investigation. Put the boot on the other foot. How often have you seen details of alternative travel routes /fares from international airports to the nearest city when abroad ? My experience is never if at all. ( Cannot speak for the U.S. as I have no need to travel there). There are two widely accepted types of traveller leisure & business. The leisure traveller is probably prepared to pay a little more if they are on holiday to avoid the hassle and get to where they want to go . The business person has his /her expenses paid- they are looking for the quickest route so cost is a not a factor. I fear you have lost your argument here.

 

[berneyarms]

It is clear though that they are running a scam. What they do is hide information and lie to and mislead customers in order to get people who are unaware (particularly the foreign tourists) to pay for the Heathrow Express services.

When someone asks any of the Heathrow Express staff around the airport how they can get to London they only ever tell them about the Heathrow Express but not any of the other options such as the Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line services. When someone goes to one of their ticket offices and asks to buy a ticket to London they automatically sell them a ticket for the Heathrow Express when they should really be asking them if they want the Heathrow Connect service or the Heathrow Express service. Similarly when someone goes to one of their TVMs the first tickets they will see are the Heathrow Express tickets while the Heathrow Connect tickets are much more hidden.

I have seen many of their staff on many different occasions tell people that the Heathrow Express is the only way to get to London. I have seen a member of staff lie to someone who asked about other options telling them that Heathrow Connect takes one hour and Piccadilly Line takes two hours (and the services were running completely normally. Their staff will do anything they can and lie as much as they like just to make as many passengers (particularly the foreign tourists who are unaware) pay the ludicrously overpriced Heathrow Express fares. I could easily list about 20 different lies i have heard them say. All of this is basically scamming. They are lying to and misleading customers on purpose. The Heathrow Express "blue gestapo" staff are pretty much just as bad as the Gatwick Express "red gestapo" staff.

There are an enormous amount of people who wouldn't use the Heathrow Express if they knew about the various other options.

Here is a price comparison of the various different rail options (prices shown are paper tickets bought on the day):

•Heathrow Connect Train
single - std - day - anytime - £10.30
return - std - open - anytime - £20.60

•Heathrow Express Train
single - std - day - offpeak - £22.00
single - std - day - anytime - £25.00
return - std - open - anytime - £37.00
single - 1st - day - anytime - £32.00
return - 1st - open - anytime - £55.00

•South West Trains (from Feltham)
[with Bus included]
single - std - day - anytime - £8.60
return - std - day - anytime - £16.90
return - std - open - anytime - £17.20
single - 1st - day - anytime - £12.10
return - 1st - open - anytime - £24.20

•South West Trains (from Feltham)
[without Bus included]
single - std - day - anytime - £7.10
return - std - day - anytime - £13.90
single - 1st - day - anytime - £10.60
return - 1st - day - anytime - £21.20

•Underground Train (Piccadilly Line)
single - std - day - anytime - £6.00
return - std - day - anytime - £12.00

As you can see the Heathrow Express is ludicrously overpriced. Most people will not want to spend that sort of money for a very short journey just to get from an Airport in to a City. If people were actually aware of these various other cheaper options (which most people are not) then i am 100% sure that far more people would use them instead of the Heathrow Express services.

If someone wants a quick fast train to London Paddington then they would use the Heathrow Connect if they knew about it. It takes 8 to 12 minutes longer and is half the price. If someone wants to save more money (and even more if they use contactless cards or oyster cards) and need to reach Central London then they would take the Piccadilly Line if they knew about it. There are many people who do not mind the longer journey on the Piccadilly Line services. And for people who do want a quicker journey then they can take the Heathrow Connect services which are almost just as quick (but yet much cheaper) than Heathrow Express services.

What Heathrow Airport need to ensure is that the Heathrow Connect and Heathrow Express and Piccadilly Line are all equally advertised around the airport as each other. Seeing as they actually own and run the Heathrow Connect they have no excuse for not advertising it properly. I am aware that they don't own and run the Piccadilly Line but as it serves the Airport they still have no excuse for not advertising that properly either. The public transport at Heathrow Airport is a disgrace to foreign visitors. I don't think it leaves a good impression for them to have to empty their wallets to pay for a ludicrously overpriced service when they could have got it much cheaper.

Although Heathrow Express is not part of National Rail or the NRCOC they still have to listen to the various consumer laws and competition laws and various other laws. But unfortunately Heathrow Express seem to continue to ignore them. The Heathrow Express can not use the fact that they are not part of National Rail and NRCOC as an excuse to mislead and scam people. All three options need to be equally promoted all around the Airport and staff need to equally tell passengers about all three options.

I still 100% firmly believe that Heathrow Express are running a huge scam operation.

With respect that's all your opinion.

Plenty of people are happy to use the Heathrow Express service otherwise trains would be virtually empty leaving Paddington using your theory. And they are not.

I was merely making the point that plenty of people use the HEx out of choice who aren't excessively wealthy and who want an express to the city.

The Heathrow Connect is fine at off-peak times during the week, but you could have a half-hour wait. At peak times it is jammed.

On Sundays it is hourly which is very restrictive.

You seem to be incapable of understanding that there is a market for all three services to and from the airport.

You seem to have a complete vendetta against the service - so quite simply don't use it and leave it to those who do want to use it.

Life is far too short for getting as worked up about things as you seem to be.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I dont think fortnam and mason lies about the existence of aldi though does it?

Last time I was in there they weren't advertising Aldi.

Lying is a very serious allegation to make, I really hope you have some evidence, other than "boo hoo they should be advertising everyone".

If people were actually aware of these various other cheaper options (which most people are not) then i am 100% sure that far more people would use them instead of the Heathrow Express services.

And you can get into Central London for £1.60 if you take the bus and you've got the afternoon to spare. And if you walk instead, you can save that £1.60.

So what?

 

[coppercapped]

It is clear though that they are running a scam. What they do is hide information and lie to and mislead customers in order to get people who are unaware (particularly the foreign tourists) to pay for the Heathrow Express services.

When someone asks any of the Heathrow Express staff around the airport how they can get to London they only ever tell them about the Heathrow Express but not any of the other options such as the Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line services. When someone goes to one of their ticket offices and asks to buy a ticket to London they automatically sell them a ticket for the Heathrow Express when they should really be asking them if they want the Heathrow Connect service or the Heathrow Express service. Similarly when someone goes to one of their TVMs the first tickets they will see are the Heathrow Express tickets while the Heathrow Connect tickets are much more hidden.

I have seen many of their staff on many different occasions tell people that the Heathrow Express is the only way to get to London. I have seen a member of staff lie to someone who asked about other options telling them that Heathrow Connect takes one hour and Piccadilly Line takes two hours (and the services were running completely normally. Their staff will do anything they can and lie as much as they like just to make as many passengers (particularly the foreign tourists who are unaware) pay the ludicrously overpriced Heathrow Express fares. I could easily list about 20 different lies i have heard them say. All of this is basically scamming. They are lying to and misleading customers on purpose. The Heathrow Express "blue gestapo" staff are pretty much just as bad as the Gatwick Express "red gestapo" staff.

There are an enormous amount of people who wouldn't use the Heathrow Express if they knew about the various other options.

Here is a price comparison of the various different rail options (prices shown are paper tickets bought on the day):

•Heathrow Connect Train
single - std - day - anytime - £10.30
return - std - open - anytime - £20.60

•Heathrow Express Train
single - std - day - offpeak - £22.00
single - std - day - anytime - £25.00
return - std - open - anytime - £37.00
single - 1st - day - anytime - £32.00
return - 1st - open - anytime - £55.00

•South West Trains (from Feltham)
[with Bus included]
single - std - day - anytime - £8.60
return - std - day - anytime - £16.90
return - std - open - anytime - £17.20
single - 1st - day - anytime - £12.10
return - 1st - open - anytime - £24.20

•South West Trains (from Feltham)
[without Bus included]
single - std - day - anytime - £7.10
return - std - day - anytime - £13.90
single - 1st - day - anytime - £10.60
return - 1st - day - anytime - £21.20

•Underground Train (Piccadilly Line)
single - std - day - anytime - £6.00
return - std - day - anytime - £12.00

As you can see the Heathrow Express is ludicrously overpriced. Most people will not want to spend that sort of money for a very short journey just to get from an Airport in to a City. If people were actually aware of these various other cheaper options (which most people are not) then i am 100% sure that far more people would use them instead of the Heathrow Express services.

If someone wants a quick fast train to London Paddington then they would use the Heathrow Connect if they knew about it. It takes 8 to 12 minutes longer and is half the price. If someone wants to save more money (and even more if they use contactless cards or oyster cards) and need to reach Central London then they would take the Piccadilly Line if they knew about it. There are many people who do not mind the longer journey on the Piccadilly Line services. And for people who do want a quicker journey then they can take the Heathrow Connect services which are almost just as quick (but yet much cheaper) than Heathrow Express services.

What Heathrow Airport need to ensure is that the Heathrow Connect and Heathrow Express and Piccadilly Line are all equally advertised around the airport as each other. Seeing as they actually own and run the Heathrow Connect they have no excuse for not advertising it properly. I am aware that they don't own and run the Piccadilly Line but as it serves the Airport they still have no excuse for not advertising that properly either. The public transport at Heathrow Airport is a disgrace to foreign visitors. I don't think it leaves a good impression for them to have to empty their wallets to pay for a ludicrously overpriced service when they could have got it much cheaper.

Although Heathrow Express is not part of National Rail or the NRCOC they still have to listen to the various consumer laws and competition laws and various other laws. But unfortunately Heathrow Express seem to continue to ignore them. The Heathrow Express can not use the fact that they are not part of National Rail and NRCOC as an excuse to mislead and scam people. All three options need to be equally promoted all around the Airport and staff need to equally tell passengers about all three options.

I still 100% firmly believe that Heathrow Express are running a huge scam operation.

For somebody who has stated that he has never flown, you seem to spend a lot of time at Heathrow.

Do you do it so you can generate a sense of righteous indignation?