Conductor: Any chance with drink drive conviction?

Discussion in 'Railway Jobs & Careers' started by Flick, 19 Dec 2019.

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  1. Red1980

    Red1980 Member

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    Yeah that means absolutely nothing. As far as they're concerned you can hitch to work as long as your train leaves on time.

    That doesn't mean you've free reign to do what you want and declare what you want. People have been turned down for prior social media posts and there content in the past so I'm sure a DD conviction will have massive impact at the time of application of seen by the right/wrong eyes.
     
  2. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

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    It’s not a driving conviction. It’s a criminal conviction. The fact it was for a motoring matter is neither here nor there. Drink driving is different to motoring convictions such as speeding etc, which are strict liability offences (limited or no defence) and although technically criminal matters, they’re non-recordable. Drink Driving is classed as a criminal offence, and is recordable as such. It’s no different to having a conviction for theft, but saying it’s okay because the industry we’re in, everything is bolted down.

    Unspent criminal records paint a picture of a person’s character, that’s the whole idea of them being spent/unspent.
     
    Last edited: 23 Dec 2019
  3. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    There is a massive amount of misinformation in this thread. Thankfully those who think a drink driving conviction is an automatic barrier to employment are wrong, and are in charge of neither the law nor recruitment.

    It was poo-poohed, but the post from an ex-policeman, @C J Snarzell, is one of the few in this thread stating fact rather than personal prejudice.

    It is perfectly possible to work on the railway with a drink driving conviction. I personally know a driver who has one.

    The OP came here for advice, not sanctimony!
     
  4. Llama

    Llama Established Member

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    Did the person you know who has a DUI conviction have it before they started on the railway?

    And regardless of the hoops people jump through, what should happen and what does happen in recruitment and HR are not the same.
     
  5. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

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    One or two people are simply saying it’s a barrier to employment. I certainly never said this. I am however being realistic. I agree that there is a lot of misinformation in this thread, but sadly not from those being realistic.
     
  6. toot toot

    toot toot Member

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    There is no way the driver you know got his job with a drink driving charge on his record! No chance!

    Being convicted of a drink driving offence whilst currently employed in the railway is another story.I also know a driver who has this on his license and was extremely lucky to keep his job.

    A potential new entrant to the industry would have no chance of being employed into a safety critical role with a DD conviction.

    If you cant be responsible enough in your own personal life then why would you ever be trusted with the responsibility of others in your place of work.

    Its a serious conviction that shouldn't be tip toed around and made to seem acceptable.
     
  7. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

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    In both your posts in this thread you seem to be sure of yourself. You can’t possibly say there’s “no way” a train driver was recruited with a criminal conviction for drink driving. As unlikely as it might be.
     
  8. Need2

    Need2 Member

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    You my friend are 100% wrong in your assumptions.
     
  9. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    You are so, so wrong. It's throw-away-the-key attitudes like yours which mean we need regulations. Thankfully you're not involved in them.

    I have some, spent, many years ago, convictions. I've also been a civil servant needing SC (secret/occasional top secret) security clearance. I got it despite my convictions. In your very blinkered view of the world I should've been far too much a threat to your safety to, I presume.
     
  10. Red1980

    Red1980 Member

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    Think "many years ago" are the key words here. Different era now I'm afraid.

    And are you saying in this day in age we don't need regulations anyway? It's not really a "throw away the key attitude" it's a reality check for some. What regulations say and what an employer sees, wants and decides to have on their payroll are very different.
     
  11. 404250

    404250 Member

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    I agree, that attitude sucks. Everyone (almost) deserves a second chance. Often people who have made mistakes have learned from them and have become less likely than the average "clean" person to offend again.
     
  12. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    It all depends on how relevant your convictions were to the job, what mitigating factors there were, how much competition there was for the job, and so on.

    As a conductor doing a safety critical role, there are very strict rules about not drinking on duty, or drinking before duty. Someone who has a drink-driving conviction has failed to obey the LAW about drinking, which would act as a big flag that they may have trouble obeying the railway rules about drinking. Yes, there may be mitigations, but as others have pointed out, with so many people applying for a limited number of jobs, the recruiters are unlikely to bother looking at mitigations if they have plenty of other candidates without this potential problem.
     
  13. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

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    Not wishing to open a can of worms here....but what the heck;

    Would you be of the same view if it was any other offence? Maybe somebody who was on the sex offenders’ register many years ago? Maybe somebody who was convicted of GBH? Where do we draw the line. We should surely give all applicants a second chance, irrespective of the offence, once spent? It very much depends on the level of vetting as to what you have to disclose, and for the most part, railway jobs require nothing more than a basic disclosure therefore spent convictions are irrelevant anyway...

    I think the part to remember here is that nobody is saying that somebody with a spent DUI conviction shouldn’t be employed (or any other conviction if it’s spent). Why would they? The issue arises when it’s recent enough to still be unspent and thus declarable.
     
    Last edited: 23 Dec 2019
  14. Red1980

    Red1980 Member

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    Yep. Not to mention amongst all of us on here claiming we know the score none of us have actually thought that there may be issues that employers have to take into account such as insurance surrounding recruitment etc.

    We've all looked at this from an employee perspective but none of us have thought that company insurers may say that people with certain convictions etc can't be employed within certain positions with certain convictions etc......just a thought.
     
  15. Undiscovered

    Undiscovered Member

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    From a simple google search, it is 5yrs after conviction (innocent until proven guilty) until a Drink Drive conviction is spent.
    Points remain on a licence for 11yrs, but it is unlawful and discriminatory for those points to be used to decline, cancel or increase the premium of a drivers insurance, as the conviction is spent after 5yrs. The Financial Ombudsman has ruled on this.
    So that's the legal standing.

    With regards to recruitment, if it's unspent, you have to declare it on the application form. Failure to do so, and it coming out at a later date, even years down the line, will most certainly be met with gross misconduct- dismissal. A serious breach of trust, failure to disclose material facts by ommission.

    If it is disclosed, the TOC will weigh up your application against all the others, but, realistically, such a serious, recent conviction is a liability and most TOCs aren't going to risk spending thousands on training you. If all the applications are equal, a Drink Drive conviction will count against you. When you're competing against thousands of other applicants...
     
  16. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    And you've totally missed the point about DBS filtering. Offences that are 'filtered' will not be disclosed on a DBS certificate. Yes, the offence won't become 'spent' until such time as stated by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (as amended). However whether its 'spent' or not isn't the only factor in deciding whether it goes on a DBS Certificate. Filtered convictions won't show if they are the only current offence on record. One type of offence that is filtered is 'driving a vehicle with excess alcohol.'

    For a list of filtered offences go to the following link. There's an OpenOffice format spreadsheet that can be downloaded from there.

    http://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/filtering-cautions-convictions/#offencesthatcanbefiltered

    For the record, I'm an ex-offender and have also worked with ex-offenders.
     
  17. JLyons

    JLyons Member

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    Is this still going on! It’s simple if his conviction is spent then he doesn’t have to declare it and stands as much chance as the next person, if it’s unspent then he has to declare and has next to no chance

    it’s as simple as that
     
  18. toot toot

    toot toot Member

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    More chance of seeing Santa tomorrow mate 100%
    Its about as unlikely as Santa coming down my chimney tomorrow. And i don’t actually have a chimney.
     
  19. bb21

    bb21 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I think everyone has had plenty of say and clearly we have no consensus and unlikely to ever reach that point.

    Time to close the thread, and I, and I believe the same with many others on the forum, wish the OP well in his pursuit. Do please keep us informed and let us share your joy with any good news.
     
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