Conservative Party possible rebrand to Tory Workers' Party

[yorksrob]

I wonder if some of the "blame them at the top" brigade rather than those who actually cast their votes have similar views on the recent matters in Catalonia? I see what you say about democracy being a flawed system ("the worst aside from all others that have been tried"), so I ask as a devils advocate for your views on the system that was set up by the Pol Pot regime, in response to your "blanket" comment.

Arguably Catelonia and Spain would have been in a better position had Madrid allowed an official referendum which could have settled the matter one way or the other.

 

[Gathursty]

So now we know who it is to blame for the situation in which Britain finds itself. Are these same people now of the opinion that they are now being listened to?

When you go through hell, keep going.

I voted Brexit. I'm fairly content with the handcart's progress so far.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Not really. The Leave campaign .... also kept mentioning Montenegro joining the EU and that causing more immigrants. I doubt many people will have gone off and researched the population of Montenegro and realised the population of that country is smaller than some of our cities or considered that Montenegro is a beautiful country which some British people would probably love to live in.

Oh dear. This is a classic example why Up-Tilt-390 nailed it up thread. Because it is more complicated than that.

You are perfectly correct that Montenegro is a beautiful country, with a small population - it's around mere 650,000.

In fact, it's so beautiful that every second upper-middle class oligarch between Vladivostok and St Petersberg has bought a chunk of it. They get residence permits too, you know. And once Montenegro gets into the EU and then into Schengen - if it does - I can guarantee you that a whole lot more oligarchs and lesser desirables will get residence permits and passports. This is the Balkans. The Balkans has some wonderful people. But I'm afraid for many it's a case of forget the law, if you can make money, make money. And that goes up to government level. There are already EU countries in eastern Europe that have made a killing out of selling passports and residence permits - ostensibly for residency in that country, of course - but it's plain damn obvious they are not expecing the residents to stay there.

I don't know if the Leave campaign imagined 650,000 Montenegrins would up sticks and come west - I agree with you, I doubt that 1% of the leavers had a clue what the population was. For me, it's not a problem if 50,000 wanted to come to the UK to work (I doubt it would be so many) - but it's the fact that the legal systems and the understanding of rule of law of a number of these countries is all too weak AT GOVERNMENT level. That is the problem. And I am a (somewhat reluctant) remainer.

 

[krus_aragon]

I do hope the workers won't all fall off their ladders as they doff their caps at every rung on the way up for being allowed to climb it in the first place. I suspect when they've climbed it they'll just find a selection of Jacob Rees-Mogg's identical black Oxford brogues left for them to polish.

Wait... do you mean that logo is really a picture of Jacob's Ladder?

 

[northwichcat]

In fact, it's so beautiful that every second upper-middle class oligarch between Vladivostok and St Petersberg has bought a chunk of it. They get residence permits too, you know. And once Montenegro gets into the EU and then into Schengen - if it does - I can guarantee you that a whole lot more oligarchs and lesser desirables will get residence permits and passports. This is the Balkans. The Balkans has some wonderful people. But I'm afraid for many it's a case of forget the law, if you can make money, make money. And that goes up to government level. There are already EU countries in eastern Europe that have made a killing out of selling passports and residence permits - ostensibly for residency in that country, of course - but it's plain damn obvious they are not expecing the residents to stay there.

Did you know Montenegro does not (at least officially) give citizenship to anyone who has not spent 10 years living in the country? Serbians who have lived in the country since it became independent from Serbia only became eligible for citizenship last year.

Yet we're happy to give citizenship to a Russian who has lived here for five years or someone from a former Commonwealth country because they had a British parent.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Did you know Montenegro does not (at least officially) give citizenship to anyone who has not spent 10 years living in the country? Serbians who have lived in the country since it became independent from Serbia only became eligible for citizenship last year.

I see you have left yourself a way out. It's the Balkans. The law says one thing. But if you know the right Vlad or Tatjana, the law can say what it likes. You'll get your citizenship, though you'll probably need to pass a brown paper envelope. In any case, the Serbs are not necessarily going to up and leave. And most of those that do are hard workers in any case. That's why the Austrians and Germans imported them in the 50s and 60s. IT's selling passports to anyone prepared to pay, but have no intention of staying in the country that is the problem.

And worryingly, the Balkans now seems to be stretching to Prague and beyond. (Personally, I rate the Czechs very highly - but the crook they've elected this weekend could be a disaster. )

 

[northwichcat]

Whether the Serbs have citizenship affects whether free movement would apply to them if Montenegro joins the EU.

 

[Cowley]

37 workers were killed by falls from height in 2015/16.

Ladders are dangerous things.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/causinj/kinds-of-accident.pdf

Very true. Much safer with a scaffold tower.

And that's as involved as I'll be getting on this thread.

 

[edwin_m]

The Catalonia situation sounds the same as if Cameron had refused the SNP a referendum on Scottish independence and then sent in the troops to suppress it when Sturgeon called one anyway. The actual result proves nothing but can be used by both sides for short term political gain, while causing damage in the longer term to almost everyone. As such it has quite a lot in common with the behaviour of Trump and the Brexiteers.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has any official statement been made concerning any re-branding by the Conservative Central Office?

 

[Groningen]

If the ladder is for the Tories; what symbol would fit Labour. Still the hammer and sickle.

 

[jon0844]

The silhouette of a lady on her knees?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The silhouette of a lady on her knees?

Modelled by Diane Abbott, hopefully.

 

[43021HST]

Appears the torys have got the logo slightly wrong.

There's no one at the top pulling it up.

Ironic really that the majority of them have hardly come from their local comps and 'worked their way up' as the logo suggests.

They wouldn't know the true definition of hard work if it slapped them in the face.
Is there a possible semiotic design for being part of the same stuffy inbred aristocracy since the 1600s. (and they wonder why they struggle to get the youth vote) I suppose a blue recycling symbol would suffice, or whatever the symbol is for Circle J***

If the ladder is for the Tories; what symbol would fit Labour. Still the hammer and sickle.

Labour are hardly raving communists, far from it, then again anyone to the left of the holocaust nowadays is considered to be a 'rabid loony lefty'.

 

[Groningen]

Labour are hardly raving communists, far from it, then again anyone to the left of the holocaust nowadays is considered to be a 'rabid loony lefty'.

True. But if Labour was forced to have a new symbol; what would it be?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Appears the torys have got the logo slightly wrong. There's no one at the top pulling it up. Ironic really that the majority of them have hardly come from their local comps and 'worked their way up' as the logo suggests. They wouldn't know the true definition of hard work if it slapped them in the face.

I was born in a very poor area of Manchester on the borders of Miles Platting and Collyhurst in 1945, one month before the war ended. I attended a very basic primary school (the same one as the footballer Nobby Stiles) and was the only one from that school who passed the 11+ examination that year. Throughout my early years at grammar school, I had to work harder than most other pupils in my form, who all seemed to have benefitted from a better quality primary education. It was this that drove me to study hard each evening after school that saw me attain 12 passes at the Ordinary Level and 5 passes at the Advanced Level of the General Certificate of Education, which saw my entering Manchester University where I obtained a First in Mathematics in 1966, some 51 years ago. I shall make no mention of my life in the field of Industry, as this is known to many on this website.

Perhaps it was the struggle in those early years that coloured my judgement in later life, so I presume that I fall under the "minority" in apposition to the "majority" that you make reference to in your posting above. I have no problem in admitting that I support the Conservative Party (not those you name who have not been in politics for some few hundreds of years) as perhaps although as a Catholic, I espouse the Protestant work ethic.

 

[northwichcat]

Has any official statement been made concerning any re-branding by the Conservative Central Office?

As you might be aware rebranding for any large organisation is a lengthy process, as it's difficult to get something that everyone is happy with so there's lots of going backwards and forwards and it's also why we hear stories about a new logo costing what seems like a ridiculous amount of money. Therefore, it's very likely they'll be suggestions about a rebrand months ahead of one actually happening.

We know Theresa May doesn't like the Conservative brand - she keeps using alternatives like the Conservative & Unionist Party or 'me and my team.' Although, whether others are as keen to rebrand is unclear.

 

[northwichcat]

I have no problem in admitting that I support the Conservative Party (not those you name who have not been in politics for some few hundreds of years) as perhaps although as a Catholic, I espouse the Protestant work ethic.

That's an interesting claim. I think there's a vast difference between work ethic in various predominately Catholic countries or regions - Ireland, Poland, Bavaria, Quebec, Italy and Croatia don't all share the same work ethic.

 

[DarloRich]

Has any official statement been made concerning any re-branding by the Conservative Central Office?

Paul: it is a poorly worded article in what looks like a comic. I hardly think this is likely to happen. The crusty old Col. Tufton Bufton MC DSO MBE rtd in the constituencies would have a prolapse if they thought the Conservatives were the party of the workers.

Flying high up in the sky, We'll keep the blue flag flying high? I doubt that very much.

 

[northwichcat]

Paul: it is a poorly worded article in what looks like a comic.

It's the online version of the i newspaper which has daily circulation of 290,000 (higher than The Guardian) and seem as one of the most politically balanced papers available. However, note they say 'according to the Daily Mail' in the article.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

Labour are hardly raving communists, far from it

Labour themselves might not be communist (except perhaps McDonnel when he was seen at a rally), and even Corbyn himself has made compromises in his manifesto that’s more to the centre. But the die-hard Corbynistas are a different story. They’re so hellbent on transforming Britain into what will inevitably turn into the next example of not real socialism.

then again anyone to the left of the holocaust nowadays is considered to be a 'rabid loony lefty'.

Quite an interesting and somewhat bold claim considering some of the controversy regarding antisemitism in the Labour Party. Won’t go much further as to say whether or not that’s true because I don’t know personally.

 

[Steveman]

Labour themselves might not be communist (except perhaps McDonnel when he was seen at a rally), and even Corbyn himself has made compromises in his manifesto that’s more to the centre. But the die-hard Corbynistas are a different story. They’re so hellbent on transforming Britain into what will inevitably turn into the next example of not real socialism.



Quite an interesting and somewhat bold claim considering some of the controversy regarding antisemitism in the Labour Party. Won’t go much further as to say whether or not that’s true because I don’t know personally.

Hamas that friendly fluffy terrorist organisation has today endorsed and praised Corbyn for boycotting a dinner commemorating the centenary of the Balfour Declaration. Antisemitism is now firmly entrenched in the labour party, they simply hate Jews with a passion and don't bother to hide it anymore. Which religion has flocked to labour in massive numbers and in a lot of areas is now their base vote.The reason labour is so hostile to Jews and Israel in particular isn't hard to work out.
Is there any terrorist organisation that Corbyn hasn't at one time either endorsed or refused to condemn ? a bloke who attends every pro Palestinian event he's invited to and turns down every Jewish one is quite simply an antisemitic racist.
He has long had a total commitment to all the organisations who would like to destroy Israel.
Remember who it was who was whispering into Hitler's ear that he should go further in exterminating every Jew. The leader of the Palestinians.

 

[43021HST]

I was born in a very poor area of Manchester on the borders of Miles Platting and Collyhurst in 1945, one month before the war ended. I attended a very basic primary school (the same one as the footballer Nobby Stiles) and was the only one from that school who passed the 11+ examination that year. Throughout my early years at grammar school, I had to work harder than most other pupils in my form, who all seemed to have benefitted from a better quality primary education. It was this that drove me to study hard each evening after school that saw me attain 12 passes at the Ordinary Level and 5 passes at the Advanced Level of the General Certificate of Education, which saw my entering Manchester University where I obtained a First in Mathematics in 1966, some 51 years ago. I shall make no mention of my life in the field of Industry, as this is known to many on this website.

Perhaps it was the struggle in those early years that coloured my judgement in later life, so I presume that I fall under the "minority" in apposition to the "majority" that you make reference to in your posting above. I have no problem in admitting that I support the Conservative Party (not those you name who have not been in politics for some few hundreds of years) as perhaps although as a Catholic, I espouse the Protestant work ethic.

I should have been clearer in my original post, however I wanted to keep the original 'snappy'. I have no issue with conservative voters such yourself, and it would be a very broad and incorrect generalisation that Tory voters don't work hard. However I do believe that the majority of Conservative MPs and their advisers haven't done a proper days work in their life, rather being installed and groomed into their positions due to going to the 'right' schools and having the 'right' aristocratic roots.

Despite my political beliefs opposing yours Paul, I have every respect for those people such as yourself who vote because they genuinely believe in conservative principles, rather than vote conservative purely because they don't like Corbyn or "they're better than the PC Labour Party" without actually being able to say something positive about conservatism. Although I do love how this thread has now turned into the Daily Mail Readers Anonymous, incredibly misinformed rants about how Labour is somehow anti-semitic for not supporting zionism, but that's a different debate.