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Continuing reductions in rail travel in 2021.

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daodao

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The problem is the government messaging over the 9 months has scared many from using public transport. Even when restrictions were at their lightest over the summer the message was only use public transport if you have no alternative. Too many now associate public transport a being a place where may get ill, partly as that is because the government have been telling them that.

Next year the railways are going to need to highlight the advantages they have over other forms of transport and reassure people that they are not laden with disease if they want to get people back using them.
The key messages regarding transport, namely "essential travel only" and "private good, public bad", will have to continue for much of 2021. It will take years to reverse this trend as these messages will have become ingrained. A return to public transport use is only likely to occur where there are incentives to use it, namely for long distance inter-city journeys and in urban areas where there is road congestion. Therefore, in addition to cutting excess peak frequencies, cuts should be focussed on lightly used branch lines and secondary routes in rural areas, which is why I suggested that the DfT could consider retrieving the Serpell report and reconsidering it. Cutting routes in Scotland and Wales in particular, even if unpopular, is unlikely to lose many seats for the Tories.
 
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philosopher

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The key messages regarding transport, namely "essential travel only" and "private good, public bad", will have to continue for much of 2021. It will take years to reverse this trend as these messages will have become ingrained. A return to public transport use is only likely to occur where there are incentives to use it, namely for long distance inter-city journeys and in urban areas where there is road congestion. Therefore, in addition to cutting excess peak frequencies, cuts should be focussed on lightly used branch lines and secondary routes in rural areas, which is why I suggested that the DfT could consider retrieving the Serpell report and reconsidering it. Cutting routes in Scotland and Wales in particular, even if unpopular, is unlikely to lose many seats for the Tories.
I can understand reducing frequencies, particularly at peak times where the drop in demand is likely to be greatest. Train services can fairly easily be reinstated once demand recovers.

However I can see two issues if you close a line entirely. First those who used that line are essentially forced to switch to car. The experience after the Beeching cuts suggests people ended up driving the whole way rather than using buses or driving to a mainline station. Therefore it starts to become a self fulling prophecy. Second it would be very costly to reinstate a closed line if demand does pick up.
 

SuperNova

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The key messages regarding transport, namely "essential travel only" and "private good, public bad", will have to continue for much of 2021. It will take years to reverse this trend as these messages will have become ingrained. A return to public transport use is only likely to occur where there are incentives to use it, namely for long distance inter-city journeys and in urban areas where there is road congestion. Therefore, in addition to cutting excess peak frequencies, cuts should be focussed on lightly used branch lines and secondary routes in rural areas, which is why I suggested that the DfT could consider retrieving the Serpell report and reconsidering it. Cutting routes in Scotland and Wales in particular, even if unpopular, is unlikely to lose many seats for the Tories.

Disagree, as soon as the sun was out this summer, tourist lines were heaving and social distancing was impossible. People are far too quick to forget that hospitality, retail, gigs, sporting events etc help drive footfall on the railway. As soon as they restart, rail use will jump.
 

Bantamzen

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The key messages regarding transport, namely "essential travel only" and "private good, public bad", will have to continue for much of 2021. It will take years to reverse this trend as these messages will have become ingrained. A return to public transport use is only likely to occur where there are incentives to use it, namely for long distance inter-city journeys and in urban areas where there is road congestion. Therefore, in addition to cutting excess peak frequencies, cuts should be focussed on lightly used branch lines and secondary routes in rural areas, which is why I suggested that the DfT could consider retrieving the Serpell report and reconsidering it. Cutting routes in Scotland and Wales in particular, even if unpopular, is unlikely to lose many seats for the Tories.
Be careful what you wish for, suppressing rail travel into the new year will eventually cause much of it to fail. The government certainly isn't going to prop up rail travel indefinitely, and any return to a privately funded model will demand profits or subsidies. But moreover I don't understand why we need to supress it at all?
 

dk1

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The key messages regarding transport, namely "essential travel only" and "private good, public bad", will have to continue for much of 2021. It will take years to reverse this trend as these messages will have become ingrained. A return to public transport use is only likely to occur where there are incentives to use it, namely for long distance inter-city journeys and in urban areas where there is road congestion. Therefore, in addition to cutting excess peak frequencies, cuts should be focussed on lightly used branch lines and secondary routes in rural areas, which is why I suggested that the DfT could consider retrieving the Serpell report and reconsidering it. Cutting routes in Scotland and Wales in particular, even if unpopular, is unlikely to lose many seats for the Tories.
Lightly used branch lines tend to have a reduced service anyway. Many branch lines have seen passenger loadings return to normal levels after lockdown with some in the SW actually increasing. The Serpell report was hideously over the top & things have changed enormously since those dark days.
 

lkpridgeon

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The key messages regarding transport, namely "essential travel only" and "private good, public bad", will have to continue for much of 2021. It will take years to reverse this trend as these messages will have become ingrained. A return to public transport use is only likely to occur where there are incentives to use it, namely for long distance inter-city journeys and in urban areas where there is road congestion. Therefore, in addition to cutting excess peak frequencies, cuts should be focussed on lightly used branch lines and secondary routes in rural areas, which is why I suggested that the DfT could consider retrieving the Serpell report and reconsidering it. Cutting routes in Scotland and Wales in particular, even if unpopular, is unlikely to lose many seats for the Tories.
Wouldn't that just be plain irresponsible? The trains need to be there to support the economic recovery. Cutting secondary and tertiary routes is quite frankly a stupid idea. As has been stated already in this thread and countless others if people can't get from A to B by train they simply won't use the train as getting a car all the way is more convenient than driving it to the nearest mainline station then trying to arrange transport at the other end. Most car users from my experience will not even consider bus connections at either end a viable option (a lot of people hate traveling on buses).

If a line is mothballed it'll still need to be inspected/maintained otherwise it falls into an unusable state. So we need to be very careful with what we do to rural branch lines. Most likely we won't save any cost on train leases as they're mostly on long term contracts that would need renegotiation that won't save us any money if the rolling stock providers get their way (hint: they will)

As far as I can tell from an operational standpoint the railway is shortstaffed as it currently is so we won't be getting rid of any staff members (barring station staff) however it might go some way to reducing the reliance on overtime. The main problem I see in redeploying staff is that it'll most likely require additional training as you can't just move a driver from one route to another overnight if they don't already sign in. This will require training to be done of which costs money in the short term and means staff aren't making the company any money.

As for removing peak extras I personally don't see this saving much money either as I believe it's used by some companies to allow people to go parttime before retiring or for training. The stock is already leased for the medium term and maintenance is done at a time where the depots don't have much workload during what is considered social hours, in general this means they get better value for money out of the depot as it'll still need to be staffed to some degree during the day anyway. The extra stock helps with operational resilliancy as if a unit has to be taken out of service during the day there's stock that can be used as backup.

First and last services being cut may save some money in staffing cost however at least where I am they're generally there to position stock in the correct place for the daytime service and quite often ran in public service as the additional cost is negligible as the train is going that way anyway.

Tldr: the only saving I see being made in the short term is through less overtime
 

Kite159

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One way I can think of getting additional passengers is to temporarily remove or lower car parking prices for certain stations which act as rail heads for other villages/towns. Especially at weekends.
 

edwin_m

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The key messages regarding transport, namely "essential travel only" and "private good, public bad", will have to continue for much of 2021. It will take years to reverse this trend as these messages will have become ingrained. A return to public transport use is only likely to occur where there are incentives to use it, namely for long distance inter-city journeys and in urban areas where there is road congestion. Therefore, in addition to cutting excess peak frequencies, cuts should be focussed on lightly used branch lines and secondary routes in rural areas, which is why I suggested that the DfT could consider retrieving the Serpell report and reconsidering it. Cutting routes in Scotland and Wales in particular, even if unpopular, is unlikely to lose many seats for the Tories.
I disagree with most of this. The message favouring cars over public transport has already reduced and there doesn't seem to be much evidence of contagion on public transport as long as people follow the rules. Once vaccination is widespread then there should be some return to normality in terms of willingness to travel. See for example what happened after Hatfield in 2000 when the message was that rails all over the network were at imminent risk of shattering (they weren't), but once Railtrack got the situation under control passenger numbers came back quickly.

The bigger concern for rail is the long-term impact on passenger numbers due to people continuing to work from home now this has become established. This relates to commuting and to some degree to business travel, so the appropriate response is to reduce peak-time and probably some intercity services. It is being discussed on numerous other threads so I won't add any more on this one. Any reductions in rural services would essentially be "something someone wants to do anyway", using the current situation as an excuse.
 

Greybeard33

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Hot off the press (30 December):
The Co-op’s Ethical Consumerism Report, which has monitored ethical spending habits for over 20 years, shows over a half of public transport users will continue to avoid buses and trains, even after the pandemic*.

*Based on 2018/19 reporting

YouGov survey of nationally representative sample of 2,138 UK adults 18+. Conducted October 2020. Based on proportion of individuals who indicate that they will do the same or more of an activity post-pandemic net of those who will do less.
Not good news for the rail industry.
 

philosopher

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That's certainly a worry. The industry might have to work to entice people back in that case.
I suppose the best hope for the railway industry is that traffic congestion encourages people back onto the railways. Get stuck in a traffic jam for an hour then I think many may change their minds on avoiding the railways.
 

yorksrob

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I suppose the best hope for the railway industry is that traffic congestion encourages people back onto the railways. Get stuck in a traffic jam for an hour then I think many may change their minds on avoiding the railways.

Indeed. I expect more people will come back when normality resumes.
 

Peter Mugridge

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It's from YouGov, so I would say read the results with a large pinch of salt...

There are far better market research companies out there if you want a truly balanced view.
 

dk1

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It's from YouGov, so I would say read the results with a large pinch of salt...

There are far better market research companies out there if you want a truly balanced view.
You only have to look at much of the market research & polls that have been so inaccurate at recent elections to do, as you say & take them with a pinch of salt.

What will be will be & best just to wait & see what happens rather than all this speculation. I for one want to return to doing everything I did before in exactly the same way hopefully.
 
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The Ham

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Hot off the press (30 December):

Not good news for the rail industry.

However doing something less could be many things.

This could include those "scared" to use trains, however it could also mean those who are looking to so more WFH.

As such it could include those who are looking to do zero train journeys but it could also include those who would expect to do 1 less a year.

It also depends on the wording of the question and answers:

Are you likely to use public transport more or less next year:
A lot more
Slightly more
Slightly less
A lot less

It's going to give you a lot of people thinking I'm going to be doing the same, but if anything is going to be slightly less and therefore opting for the less option.
 

Greybeard33

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However doing something less could be many things.

This could include those "scared" to use trains, however it could also mean those who are looking to so more WFH.

As such it could include those who are looking to do zero train journeys but it could also include those who would expect to do 1 less a year.

It also depends on the wording of the question and answers:

Are you likely to use public transport more or less next year:
A lot more
Slightly more
Slightly less
A lot less

It's going to give you a lot of people thinking I'm going to be doing the same, but if anything is going to be slightly less and therefore opting for the less option.
The full report does not seem to be available online. However, all the press summaries say that more than half of previous public transport users (not all respondents) said that they would continue to avoid buses and trains. That implies that they would have chosen the "a lot less" option if the question was phrased in the way you suggest.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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I think part of the issue is that people don't actually have anywhere to go on the bus at the moment. Working from home, online shopping, pubs are shut, can't go to someone's house for a few drinks, etc. Once these things are "allowed" again, I reckon people will be back on public transport as they realise they've not got any other option, other than a taxi - which is potentially riskier (closer contact = higher viral load), or using their car... if they have one.

It didn't stop masses piling onto trains in June to go to the beach on the south coast, after all.
 

Spartacus

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The one thing stopping me using the train as much as I used to do is the reduction in service. Instead of having a 5-10 minute wait for a train home after finishing work I've got a 40-45 minute one. I can be home by car in that time given a clear run. At this time of year, with temperatures around freezing and waiting rooms locked the car is winning more often than a long wait on a platform.
 

Philip

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Could a national cut in all rail fares, possibly up to 50%, or if not some initiative like suspending all peak fares be the solution to getting numbers back to close what they were last year? Bring it in line with the May timetable change to run to the end of the year, then maybe increasing to 25% off 2020 fares for 2022. It would come at a convenient time when it is expected there should be some 'normality' back with hopefully big progress in vaccination.
 

Kite159

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Could a national cut in all rail fares, possibly up to 50%, or if not some initiative like suspending all peak fares be the solution to getting numbers back to close what they were last year? Bring it in line with the May timetable change to run to the end of the year, then maybe increasing to 25% off 2020 fares for 2022. It would come at a convenient time when it is expected there should be some 'normality' back with hopefully big progress in vaccination.

I'm sure a large cut of fares will go down well with those taxpayers who live in areas with no railway nearby as it means more taxpayer money is spent keeping the rail industry above water
 

Philip

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I'm sure a large cut of fares will go down well with those taxpayers who live in areas with no railway nearby as it means more taxpayer money is spent keeping the rail industry above water

Keeping the rail industry above water is vital, have to look at the greater good etc.
 

Bikeman78

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I think part of the issue is that people don't actually have anywhere to go on the bus at the moment. Working from home, online shopping, pubs are shut, can't go to someone's house for a few drinks, etc. Once these things are "allowed" again, I reckon people will be back on public transport as they realise they've not got any other option, other than a taxi - which is potentially riskier (closer contact = higher viral load), or using their car... if they have one.

It didn't stop masses piling onto trains in June to go to the beach on the south coast, after all.
Agreed, same goes for Barry Island and the North Wales coast. I'm sure the shoppers from the valleys will return before too long. Who wants to queue to get into a car park for half an hour?
 

philosopher

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Could a national cut in all rail fares, possibly up to 50%, or if not some initiative like suspending all peak fares be the solution to getting numbers back to close what they were last year? Bring it in line with the May timetable change to run to the end of the year, then maybe increasing to 25% off 2020 fares for 2022. It would come at a convenient time when it is expected there should be some 'normality' back with hopefully big progress in vaccination.
Personally, I would like to see every adult given a £20 national rail voucher. It should not cost much more than a billion pounds, which is small change compared to what has been spent on things like the furlough. It has a good chance of repaying for itself if it encourages enough people who may have otherwise been turned off the railways to continue use the railways.

Plus there should be a national advertising campaign emphasizing hygiene and cleaning measures that have carried out on trains and at stations.
 

Bikeman78

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Dunno who they are, but there seem to be lots of takers for this kind offer.
Yes that occurred to me almost as soon as I'd hit the post button. However, prior to Covid there were hundreds of shoppers on the trains. If they all attempt to drive as well then the waiting time will be more than 30 minutes.
 

Ianno87

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Personally, I would like to see every adult given a £20 national rail voucher. It should not cost much more than a billion pounds, which is small change compared to what has been spent on things like the furlough. It has a good chance of repaying for itself if it encourages enough people who may have otherwise been turned off the railways to continue use the railways.

Plus there should be a national advertising campaign emphasizing hygiene and cleaning measures that have carried out on trains and at stations.

The only "cost" would be those who simply get a £20 reduction on a journey they were planning to make regardless. Everybody else would be a net increase in revenue.
 

Hadders

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Could a national cut in all rail fares, possibly up to 50%, or if not some initiative like suspending all peak fares be the solution to getting numbers back to close what they were last year? Bring it in line with the May timetable change to run to the end of the year, then maybe increasing to 25% off 2020 fares for 2022. It would come at a convenient time when it is expected there should be some 'normality' back with hopefully big progress in vaccination.
There is no way normal fares will be reduced. I'd love fares to be cut by 50% but they will then need to double to get them back on par. What I do think will happen is:

- Targeted special offers (think of LNER seat sale, London Midland Great Escape style activity)
- Massive advertising campaign
- Cheap 1st class upgrades encouraging passengers to trade up
- Groupsave, kids for a quid etc to encourage people to use the train for a day out, or to travel to events etc
- Railcard promotional activity (e.g. free 6 week railcard as part of a wider promotion etc)
 

route101

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Bit selfish but here in Glasgow id like to see the peak fare restriction on the Edinburgh routes abolished. Services have been quiet.
 

3rd rail land

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There is no way normal fares will be reduced. I'd love fares to be cut by 50% but they will then need to double to get them back on par. What I do think will happen is:

- Targeted special offers (think of LNER seat sale, London Midland Great Escape style activity)
- Massive advertising campaign
- Cheap 1st class upgrades encouraging passengers to trade up
- Groupsave, kids for a quid etc to encourage people to use the train for a day out, or to travel to events etc
- Railcard promotional activity (e.g. free 6 week railcard as part of a wider promotion etc)
I think this is a very viable solution. As you say regular fares will not be reduced across the board, especially not by 50%. If you reduce fares it may entice people into using the railway whilst the reduced fares are offered but of course the prices would need to go back up eventually. The people that used the railway solely due to the reduced fares will just go back to their cars or whatever transport mode they used previously.

I used to use the railway very regularly pre-covid but wouldn't travel by train just because the fares had been reduced. If I have somewhere I need to or want to go I will use the railway if it is the most viable/convenient option.
 
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