Converting a terminus station into a through one

[ntg]

Waterloo, when it was once more like a conglomeration of three termini, was formally an example of this, albeit a weird one, when the portal to the escalators was originally for a single track connection running over the concourse onto the line through Waterloo East. I have no idea how often it was used and whether it was just for passenger or goods use, but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will know here.

See diagrams here and here.

Does anyone know of any photographs of this link in use, by the way?

And another dodgy example, Woolwich North will soon become part of Crossrail, although the station itself will not be reopening.

 

[Tommy3000]

I did say Blackfriars, which is wrong, I meant City Thameslink (as Ludgate Hill).

Ludgate Hill was built as part of the LCDR's City Branch from Herne Hill to Farringdon, so it was a terminus before Snow Hill tunnel opened but was always laid out for through running. The same was true of Elephant & Castle and Blackfriars Bridge, which both briefly served as the City Branch's terminus at different times.

 

[yorksrob]

Waterloo, when it was once more like a conglomeration of three termini, was formally an example of this, albeit a weird one, when the portal to the escalators was originally for a single track connection running over the concourse onto the line through Waterloo East. I have no idea how often it was used and whether it was just for passenger or goods use, but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will know here.

I believe it was an early attempt to provide L&SWR passengers with a route to the City of London (using the SER station at Cannon Street). However this was superceeded by the Waterloo and City line.

 

[John55]

How about one of mine - Preston?
or Manchester Hunts Bank?

Any station at Hunts Bank is the current Victoria which was built as a through station to join the L&M, M&B and M&L. Or have I remembered incorrectly?

 

[JamesRowden]

I am suprised that no-one has mentioned London Bridge Yet. First terminus in London and it originally only ran to Greenwich. It now goes to the Thameslink, Cannon Street and Charing Cross.

After the merger of the South Eastern Railway (SER) and the London, Chatham and Dover Railway (LCDR) many Kent towns that had a terminus staion for one railway had it converted into a through staion/connection with the other. Bat & Ball was the original Sevenoaks Station, it was exteneded to the SER Sevenoaks station. The LCDR had an Ashford terminus station for the Maidstone East line that was closed with trains sent to the SER station. I believe Dover Priory was the LCDR terminus and that the SER lines to Ashford and Ramsgate were connected to either end of the station. In Thanet (Ramsgate/Margate) both railways had lines passing through and terminating at the other end. These were replaced with one through line.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Istanbul's Sirkeci station is also being changed from terminus to through (underground) station, like Stuttgart. The station on the other side of the Bosphorus (Haydarpasha) isn't though.

 

[AndyLandy]

Birmingham (Curzon St replaced by New St).

By that logic, I guess Southampton Terminus, replaced by Southampton Central would also count.

 

[mister-sparky]

By that logic, I guess Southampton Terminus, replaced by Southampton Central would also count.

completely different stations, quite a distance apart. so no. to bham too.

 

[AndyLandy]

completely different stations, quite a distance apart. so no. to bham too.

Fair point. However, where do we stand when (if) the new HS2 station at Birmingham Curzon Street opens? I assume that'll be a through station and I assume it'll be built on or near the site of the original Curzon Street station...

 

[stockport1]

liverpool central?

 

[1018509]

Heathrow Terminals 1, 2 & 3 was originally a terminus with overrun tunnels.

 

[John55]

I am suprised that no-one has mentioned London Bridge Yet. First terminus in London and it originally only ran to Greenwich. It now goes to the Thameslink, Cannon Street and Charing Cross.

After the merger of the South Eastern Railway (SER) and the London, Chatham and Dover Railway (LCDR) many Kent towns that had a terminus staion for one railway had it converted into a through staion/connection with the other. Bat & Ball was the original Sevenoaks Station, it was exteneded to the SER Sevenoaks station. The LCDR had an Ashford terminus station for the Maidstone East line that was closed with trains sent to the SER station. I believe Dover Priory was the LCDR terminus and that the SER lines to Ashford and Ramsgate were connected to either end of the station. In Thanet (Ramsgate/Margate) both railways had lines passing through and terminating at the other end. These were replaced with one through line.

Even better example is Greenwich at the other end as the original station building is still in use as the station.

Some of the changes you mention in Kent were Southern railway changes in the 20s and 30s.

liverpool central?

From both directions!

 

[Capybara]

Antwerpen Centraal is a recent one. Though not in this country, obviously.

 

[tbtc]

Any bets on the next terminus to become a "through" station?

Bank (DLR)?
Alloa (extension to Fife)?

 

[johnnychips]

How long has Man Piccadilly had platforms 13/14, or were they always there?

 

[Welshman]

How long has Man Piccadilly had platforms 13/14, or were they always there?

Since 1st August 1849!!

They were originally built by the Manchester South Junction and Altrincham Railway [MSJ & A], serving what was then London Rd.

From May 1931, services were electrified with the DC 1500 volt system.

But perhaps its fair to say that it's only been in the last 40 years or so, with the closure of Central and Exchange stations, that the stretch between Piccadilly and Oxford Rd has been more intensively-used.

 

[John55]

Since 1st August 1849!!

They were originally built by the Manchester South Junction and Altrincham Railway [MSJ & A], serving what was then London Rd.

From May 1931, services were electrified with the DC 1500 volt system.

But perhaps its fair to say that it's only been in the last 40 years or so, with the closure of Central and Exchange stations, that the stretch between Piccadilly and Oxford Rd has been more intensively-used.

Between 1931 and 1960 when Oxford Rd to London Rd was closed to be rebuilt and the voltage changed to 25kV there were up to 12 trains per hour between Oxford Rd and London Rd in the peaks. I don't think that has been matched since.

I have a reprint of a street map from the 20s which shows the 3 stations at the current Piccadilly as Manchester (Great Central), Manchester (L&NWR) and Manchester (MSJ&A). All are shown as separate and terminals. It would be interesting to know if there were through passenger trains from Oxford Rd to Stockport (or anywhere else) before or after 1931 or if it was only goods trains and excursions which ran through.

 

[Welshman]

Between 1931 and 1960 when Oxford Rd to London Rd was closed to be rebuilt and the voltage changed to 25kV there were up to 12 trains per hour between Oxford Rd and London Rd in the peaks. I don't think that has been matched since.

Thank-you for that, John55.
I used the wrong word, of course. I should have said "extensive" rather than "intensive", referring to the fact trains now use that short stretch for journeys to Scotland, Liverpool, Blackpool, Sheffield, Norwich, etc, etc.

To back-up what you say about the MSJ&ARly service frequency, not for nothing was the company known for its Many Short Journeys & Absolute Reliability.

 

[johnnychips]

Thanks to you both. Really surprised about that.

 

[172212]

I think Aberystwyth is a termni station, if I remember correctly

 

[L&Y Robert]

Between 1931 and 1960 when Oxford Rd to London Rd was closed to be rebuilt and the voltage changed to 25kV there were up to 12 trains per hour between Oxford Rd and London Rd in the peaks. I don't think that has been matched since.

When I attended Manchester Art School (All Saints) in the mid-sixties, Oxford Road station was being re-built under a timber laminated "shell" roof. At that time the station was, in effect, two back-to-back terminal stations - one the terminus of the Altrincham Line (DC overhead system) and the other a mere extended finger of the new (then) 25kv "Manchester - Crewe" electrification which extended over most, but not all, of Picadilly station. I think there was a token "Through Siding" at Oxford Road, but not under either of the wires. Picadilly also had the Manchester-Wath-Sheffield (Woodhead route) DC system terminating on the East side of the station.

 

[mister-sparky]

Fair point. However, where do we stand when (if) the new HS2 station at Birmingham Curzon Street opens? I assume that'll be a through station and I assume it'll be built on or near the site of the original Curzon Street station...

the original curzon street had parallel platforms, but no through trains ever operated apparently. and the new hs2 station is going to be a terminus. so no to that as well.

 

[route:oxford]

the original curzon street had parallel platforms, but no through trains ever operated apparently. and the new hs2 station is going to be a terminus. so no to that as well.

Is Bourne End a twin-terminus or a through station?

There is regular mention in the press about a reconnection to Wycombe.

 

[Aictos]

Is Bourne End a twin-terminus or a through station?

There is regular mention in the press about a reconnection to Wycombe.

Bourne End is a though station as the train crew on the Maidenhead to Marlow via Bourne End services aka the Nodding Donkey have to change ends at Bourne End to continue their journey.

Equally, I believe that in the peaks First Great Western use two DMUs - one operates as a shuttle service between Maidenhead and Bourne End while the other operates as a shuttle service between Marlow and Bourne End.

Therefore in conclusion, Bourne End is special as it operates as a though station the majority of the time but acts as a twin terminus during peak hours.

 

[43021HST]

I'm surprised no ones mentioned Bristol Templemeads, it was the original Great western terminus from London, before it was converted into a through station.

 

[steamybrian]

It was my understanding that at Stuttgart the existing ground level track and platforms are being replaced by new underground track on a different alignment but by using as much of the existing station buildings and concourse as possible.
Similiar to the present City Thameslink station which replaced the terminus of Holborn Viaduct where the existing ground level track and platforms were replaced by through track underground but used some of the old station building and concourse.

 

[142094]

It was my understanding that at Stuttgart the existing ground level track and platforms are being replaced by new underground track on a different alignment but by using as much of the existing station buildings and concourse as possible.

The platforms in effect will be turned 90 degrees and built under the current station buildings, although there has been a lot of demolition work which hasn't pleased local people. DB are going through with the project to increase capacity and lower journey times. Quite a lot of work involved, and not something I'd heard of being done before.

 

[AndyLandy]

the original curzon street had parallel platforms, but no through trains ever operated apparently. and the new hs2 station is going to be a terminus. so no to that as well.

Good grief! Do we know why? I thought the point of HS2 is that there'd (eventually) be through services on HS2 that continue to the North. I'm surprised that a terminus station makes sense!

(But yes, if the original Curzon St. was always a through station, then it's automatically ruled out)

 

[LE Greys]

Good grief! Do we know why? I thought the point of HS2 is that there'd (eventually) be through services on HS2 that continue to the North. I'm surprised that a terminus station makes sense!

(But yes, if the original Curzon St. was always a through station, then it's automatically ruled out)

Presumably, they're assuming that the through trains will bypass Birmingham at the triangle, possibly stopping at International, if they can access it, and continue directly to Manchester. That strikes me as rather missing the point of a railway.

 

[Eagle]

Good grief! Do we know why? I thought the point of HS2 is that there'd (eventually) be through services on HS2 that continue to the North.

There will be, but through International and heading up the Trent Valley. It's not very feasible to plough a high-speed line through the middle of Birmingham and the Black Country, after all.
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There is regular mention in the press about a reconnection to Wycombe.

Not entirely sure that's possible; the line is protected (now) but there has been some houses built on the alignment at Wooburn.