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Corby to Derby Train - What type of train is it?

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Kite159

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I am intrigued by such odd workings.

What are the loadings like? Has anyone got on a Melton, or Oakham?

Or off, for that matter?

Probably the only ones who get off at Melton are the sort who don't listen to the various announcements at Derby/East Midlands Parkway and expected it to go via Leicester :lol:

There was a couple when I did it last year and if I recall the guard said there was an XC towards Leicester due in around 10 minutes.
 
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Tomnick

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Probably the only ones who get off at Melton are the sort who don't listen to the various announcements at Derby/East Midlands Parkway and expected it to go via Leicester :lol:

There was a couple when I did it last year and if I recall the guard said there was an XC towards Leicester due in around 10 minutes.
I know the Down service in the evening has, on at least one occasion, conveyed foreign tourists who wanted Sheffield but were in the wrong portion at Kettering. Unfortunately for them, the job was stopped further east and there was no sign of an XC service onwards from Melton - quite sensibly, the train worked forward to Derby in service vice ECS!

The trains always seem to have at least a few passengers whenever they pass me (usually at speed!), but I certainly wouldn't normally call them well loaded. In most cases, for travel between Melton/Oakham and London, it's quicker to change at Leicester anyway. I doubt that the extra cost of running in service is that great though, so hopefully they'll continue.
 

mushroomchow

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Sorry to bump this thread, but I'm trying to find any tangible loading figures for the Melton to LSP via Corby service - does anybody know where I could find some?

I ask because the East Midlands Rail Franchise public consultation document (p.29) is hinting at the withdrawal of the service in the next franchise, with the vague excuse of electrification to Corby being to blame - which, of course, flies in the face of the DfT singing the praises of the bi-mode trains due for introduction over the course of the franchise. Funny - this seems to be exactly the sort of service they're actually designed for, but it would be far too sensible for the fools in control.

What I think is more likely, and would make total sense in fairness, would be extension of the Thameslink franchise to Corby, with a view to Corby and Kettering having to swallow 700s as a trade-off for retaining their direct London services. But that, of course, puts Melton's direct service under threat.

Why that would stop one through train a day continuing to run over the Welland route is beyond me, though. My assumption is that passenger loadings are, for want of a better word, crap, but I'd like to see figures to confirm that. :P
 

mushroomchow

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I caught the 1636 ex Derby to Oakham on Tuesday 2nd May... There were 3 people in my carriage... Didn't look at the other carriages though...

Thanks for the reply, although I'm looking for more empirical data. At least somebody uses it! We've got quite a lot of anecdotal mentions of trains running near-empty, which doesn't surprise me given how shockingly badly-advertised the service is. Long story short, I'm working for an organisation that may or may not have a say, however small, in whether the service goes or not, and it's not looking good right now.

That being said, the East Midlands public consultation is open now, so be sure to put in a word about it... oh, and pester them about Leicester to Burton via. Coalville while you're at it, since it looks like making central government and the incoming franchise operator aware of the proposals is the only way anything is ever going to get done. G'won, click the link V V V ;)

EAST MIDLANDS FRANCHISE CONSULTATION SURVEY
 

swt_passenger

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Sorry to bump this thread, but I'm trying to find any tangible loading figures for the Melton to LSP via Corby service - does anybody know where I could find some?
Official individual service loading figures are commercially sensitive, and never generally available to members of the public.
What I think is more likely, and would make total sense in fairness, would be extension of the Thameslink franchise to Corby, with a view to Corby and Kettering having to swallow 700s as a trade-off for retaining their direct London services. But that, of course, puts Melton's direct service under threat.
Highly improbable without ordering additional rolling stock. Has been proposed in numerous previous discussions.
 

70014IronDuke

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I know the Down service in the evening has, on at least one occasion, conveyed foreign tourists who wanted Sheffield but were in the wrong portion at Kettering. Unfortunately for them, the job was stopped further east and there was no sign of an XC service onwards from Melton - quite sensibly, the train worked forward to Derby in service vice ECS!
0...

In days of yore I can well imagine the crew would have have quietly allowed the hapless foreigners to stay on the ECS and dropped them at Loughborough, or somewhere like that, and nothing more would be said.

Not on the modern railway, of course.
Is there anyway today that the train crew could call control and get official permission to help them out?
 

LowLevel

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In days of yore I can well imagine the crew would have have quietly allowed the hapless foreigners to stay on the ECS and dropped them at Loughborough, or somewhere like that, and nothing more would be said.

Not on the modern railway, of course.
Is there anyway today that the train crew could call control and get official permission to help them out?

Well yes? Basically by doing exactly what you said. Been there, done that.
 

bunnahabhain

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Not on the modern railway, of course.
Is there anyway today that the train crew could call control and get official permission to help them out?
Depending upon who is on Control are usually quite happy to help out. I've had dozens of SSOs for passengers at places like Chinley, Brandon, Romiley, Marple and a few others. I've ran ECS runs in service too on a fair few occasions, usually for drunkards who fell asleep.
 

Tomnick

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Sorry to bump this thread, but I'm trying to find any tangible loading figures for the Melton to LSP via Corby service - does anybody know where I could find some?

I ask because the East Midlands Rail Franchise public consultation document (p.29) is hinting at the withdrawal of the service in the next franchise, with the vague excuse of electrification to Corby being to blame - which, of course, flies in the face of the DfT singing the praises of the bi-mode trains due for introduction over the course of the franchise. Funny - this seems to be exactly the sort of service they're actually designed for, but it would be far too sensible for the fools in control.

What I think is more likely, and would make total sense in fairness, would be extension of the Thameslink franchise to Corby, with a view to Corby and Kettering having to swallow 700s as a trade-off for retaining their direct London services. But that, of course, puts Melton's direct service under threat.

Why that would stop one through train a day continuing to run over the Welland route is beyond me, though. My assumption is that passenger loadings are, for want of a better word, crap, but I'd like to see figures to confirm that. :P
I think the problem is that, at the moment, most of the passenger services north of Corby - certainly 1M06/1P69 in the daytime (the former is the ECS off the early morning shuttles to Kettering only, and the latter drops into the circuit when the service pattern changes slightly but enough to make the short turnarounds earlier in the day impossible to maintain) - are movements that are necessary anyway to maintain the passenger service south of there. Alter that passenger service so that it's wholly resourced from the south, and remove the constraints of the single line that make the service a little awkward at times, and suddenly those movements are no longer necessary, so it's much harder to justify running those passenger services north of Corby. 1P10 in the early morning (10-car) presumably runs mainly for the heavy commuter loadings south of Kettering, which the DfT seem determined to shift onto the new electric service. 1M61 in the evening is a slightly more complex, but similar justification applies.

In days of yore I can well imagine the crew would have have quietly allowed the hapless foreigners to stay on the ECS and dropped them at Loughborough, or somewhere like that, and nothing more would be said.

Not on the modern railway, of course.
Is there anyway today that the train crew could call control and get official permission to help them out?
Well - yes. That's exactly what I said happened. The traincrew agreed with Control that the train would continue forward in service to Derby, so that they could be deposited there to continue their journey.
 

70014IronDuke

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...

Well - yes. That's exactly what I said happened. The traincrew agreed with Control that the train would continue forward in service to Derby, so that they could be deposited there to continue their journey.

Ah! Apologies. I didn't actually understand what you'd written originally :roll:. I do now. Good to hear common sense prervails.
 

cactustwirly

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Oh ok. I checked both the EMT timetable and RTT. Both said tram so I just assumed.

Before someone comes along and says that RTT doesn't show what a train is booked for, I know. RTT is usually quite accurate for the EMT intercity services.

It does, but the diagram originates from Etches Park so it has to be a 222

EDIT: Just realised that this post is over 2 years old! :oops:
 
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Hadders

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I took the 1636 Derby-St Pancras via Corby service back in May. It was busy due to loads of Advance ticket holders. The guard gave several announcements about faster options for flexible ticket holders.
 

Stampy

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It's a 222 set.

I caught the 0926 from Corby to Melton Mowbray a year ago, after doing a Melton-Leicester, Leicester-Kettering and then Kettering-Corby run earlier in the day.

Only a couple of people got on at Corby & Oakham...

I did film the route from the seat I was in, and put it on YouTube - but it seems to have been deleted, i'll try to find it and upload it again!!!
 

Wobblysteve

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I use that train quite often from Corby, for shopping in Derby, visiting family in Derby etc. - last time was for a long weekend break in York (via Derby) in October. It's true that the train is never 'rammed', but then again it's not publicised by EMT locally either....

I would venture to suggest that 99.9% of users out of Corby use the train going south to St.P..... which I still maintain is a chance lost for EMT.....or it may just be me that thinks that the centre of the uk rail universe is NOT London !!!

It wouldn't hurt EMT to run a train to Nottingham thru Corby also - and give folks a chance of a trip to either Derby or Nottingham for shopping, etc...

Or....at New Year / Christmas - run a special from 'Little Scotland' 'up the road' for the 'ex-pats'!!

Notwithstanding making better use of connections to East Mids Parkway/Airport for holiday traffic... - or one off trains for the Goose Fair etc....

.....the fact that there is literally zero publicity for that service is, I would suggest, the main reason for it not having more passengers....
 

A0

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I use that train quite often from Corby, for shopping in Derby, visiting family in Derby etc. - last time was for a long weekend break in York (via Derby) in October. It's true that the train is never 'rammed', but then again it's not publicised by EMT locally either....

I would venture to suggest that 99.9% of users out of Corby use the train going south to St.P..... which I still maintain is a chance lost for EMT.....or it may just be me that thinks that the centre of the uk rail universe is NOT London !!!

It wouldn't hurt EMT to run a train to Nottingham thru Corby also - and give folks a chance of a trip to either Derby or Nottingham for shopping, etc...

Or....at New Year / Christmas - run a special from 'Little Scotland' 'up the road' for the 'ex-pats'!!

Notwithstanding making better use of connections to East Mids Parkway/Airport for holiday traffic... - or one off trains for the Goose Fair etc....

.....the fact that there is literally zero publicity for that service is, I would suggest, the main reason for it not having more passengers....

Problem is the journey time is uncompetitive with travelling via Kettering. So anyone wanting to head north is better off heading south to Kettering and changing.
 

Tomnick

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The two passenger services in each direction north of Corby use units that'd otherwise be going empty to/from Derby anyway, so it doesn't cost much to run them as class 1s. Running additional trains to Nottingham would cost more - would they be justified on the basis of the Corby/Oakham/Melton market alone?
 
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Potential market for Oakham & Melton flows to Loughborough & Nottingham also by train. The Melton-Nottingham bus service has recently been cut back to 5 buses a day and the through service to Oakham from Nottingham has been axed. A Corby-Nottingham shuttle would be a potential new service with associated costs but without the cost of opening 'new lines' & stations etc.
 

Qwerty133

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Potential market for Oakham & Melton flows to Loughborough & Nottingham also by train. The Melton-Nottingham bus service has recently been cut back to 5 buses a day and the through service to Oakham from Nottingham has been axed. A Corby-Nottingham shuttle would be a potential new service with associated costs but without the cost of opening 'new lines' & stations etc.
If a bus with no competition was unviable a train has no chance...
 
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Bus was not viable due to heavy numbers of ENCTS pass users, always reasonably loaded when I've used it. Train is a different market. Lack of any buses after 7pm (6pm now) meant no evening out opportunities etc.
 

MG11

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Can 156s/8s run to St Pancras, are they cleared? I know they have recently run the Kettering - Sheffield stretch (not sure why). It would make sense for them to be able to run atleast as far south as Wellingborough, if a Meridian is stranded further south, Wellignborough passengers won't have Thameslink to fall back on like Luton/Bedford passengers do.
 

cactustwirly

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Can 156s/8s run to St Pancras, are they cleared? I know they have recently run the Kettering - Sheffield stretch (not sure why). It would make sense for them to be able to run atleast as far south as Wellingborough, if a Meridian is stranded further south, Wellignborough passengers won't have Thameslink to fall back on like Luton/Bedford passengers do.

Brilliant! Puttting a 75mph DMU on the fast lines isn't going to eat up capacity at all...
 

Wobblysteve

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Problem is the journey time is uncompetitive with travelling via Kettering. So anyone wanting to head north is better off heading south to Kettering and changing.
Probably right...however...these days I'm ramped on and off trains, so the fewer the changes the better ! That said, EMT station staff are the mutts as far as I am concerned (station staff @York were pretty ok too tbh).
 

sprinterguy

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Tomnick

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Can 156s/8s run to St Pancras, are they cleared? I know they have recently run the Kettering - Sheffield stretch (not sure why). It would make sense for them to be able to run atleast as far south as Wellingborough, if a Meridian is stranded further south, Wellignborough passengers won't have Thameslink to fall back on like Luton/Bedford passengers do.

I was referring to times of disruption, when it is vital to get customers in the move.
The 156s worked from Kettering to Sheffield in lieu of 1F56, which is a portion detached from an evening peak London - Corby train at Kettering. 1F56 was short-formed, and planned to be short-formed far enough in advance to get the units and suitable crew (bearing in mind that relatively few sign both route and traction) together and run empties to Kettering via Wellingborough.

In the midst of disruption, when it's vital to get customers on the move, it's really not a practical solution. In the short term, there'll usually be plenty of trains around anyway but nowhere to run them, and no chance of getting anything from the local fleet ready at such short notice. By the time they could be ready, Control will probably have implemented one of the standard contingency plans (or it'll all be sorted and back to normal), which usually means thinning out the service anyway - again, plenty of trains, not enough paths to run them all.

I don't really understand what you want to achieve here?
 
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