Coronavirus.

[DarloRich]

it does explain the difference in mortality rate

I also read they are lisitng any underlying issuse as the cause of death rather than the virus.

 

[yorksrob]

It will be interesting to see where the log jam in testing is. Certainly our domestic chemical industry has been disputing the lack of availability of the necessary chemicals put forward as a reason by the Government yesterday.

 

[DarloRich]

That wasn't the question.

My question was if we were doing the same as Germany would you be happy.

I know you are strongly anti-the present Government, and I am interested as to whether that is clouding your view or not.

I would be happy we were testing people. In large numbers. I am not happy with the government or thier response to this situation. I feel it is at best cack handed inspired by a casually disinterested leadership of chancers.

Could your credulity be clouding your judgement as to the performance of this government in this situation

Ps I have even more contempt for Corbyn and his clowns as I have for Johnson and his so lets knock that on the head.

I maintain: why are we not in a postion to test as many people as Germany? We cant even test the people who will have to look after us ffs!

 

[hooverboy]

I would be happy we were testing people. In large numbers. I am not happy with the government or thier response to this situation. I feel it is at best cack handed inspired by a casually disinterested leadership of chancers.

Could your credulity be clouding your judgement as to the performance of this government in this situation

Ps I have even more contempt for Corbyn and his clowns as I have for Johnson and his!

I maintain: why are we not in a postion to test as many people as Germany?

the government,of whatever colour in this instance would be damned if they do,damned if they don't.

if corbyn and mcdonnel had been in charge they would have pounced on the opportunity to take the chinese approach to remodelling society,so we should really count our blessings for such incompotence!

I would much rather a freely chosen smartphone tracking app than a mandatory sheep dip and branding

 

[AM9]

the government,of whatever colour in this instance would be damned if they do,damned if they don't.

if corbyn and mcdonnel had been in charge they would have pounced on the opportunity to take the chinese approach to remodelling society,so we should really count our blessings for such incompotence!

I would much rather a freely chosen smartphone tracking app than a mandatory sheep dip and branding

Of course you have no idea how a Corbyn administration would be handling this epidemic. The thing is we have a right-wing government with a record majority, so everything that they have done has been entirely without the compromise of a slim majority or even a voiciferous opposition.

 

[hooverboy]

Of course you have no idea how a Corbyn administration would be handling this epidemic. The thing is we have a right-wing government with a record majority, so everything that they have done has been entirely without the compromise of a slim majority or even a voiciferous opposition.

really.

socialism means the needs of the collective outweigh the needs of the individual.
no prizes for guessing how this turns out.

ps: i would hardly call boris right wing,he is very much on the "wet" end of the spectrum of toryism.
Not that I'm advocating a hardline right wing approach to this either,they would be of the mantra" let nature take it's course" and get rid of the physically unfit ,but corbyn's lot would be "get rid of the mentally-not with the collectivist programme"- unfit too.

either way, you see those at the higher echelons of power see the unwashed masses as collateral damage,basically expendable in the grand scale of things, while making a pretense they care.

 

[Meerkat]

Some people are very sure everything is the politician’s fault without any real evidence as to whether it is theirs or their expert advisors or NHS management or the civil servants (remember the Home Office dropping Amber Rudd in trouble....)
The most evasive interviewee i have seen so far was the head of the NHS.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some people are very sure everything is the politician’s fault without any real evidence as to whether it is theirs or their expert advisors or NHS management or the civil servants (remember the Home Office dropping Amber Rudd in trouble....)
The most evasive interviewee i have seen so far was the head of the NHS.

Yet I'd say the best one, most reassuring and seemingly most honest, was somewhere between Chris Whitty (who I hope is recovering well) and the deputy CMO whose name I forget.

 

[DarloRich]

Some people are very sure everything is the politician’s fault without any real evidence as to whether it is theirs or their expert advisors or NHS management or the civil servants (remember the Home Office dropping Amber Rudd in trouble....)
The most evasive interviewee i have seen so far was the head of the NHS.

Yet I'd say the best one, most reassuring and seemingly most honest, was somewhere between Chris Whitty (who I hope is recovering well) and the deputy CMO whose name I forget.

I thought the advisor today was guilty of displaying bullpap of a political magnitude and dodged every question. I will give them more doubt than Johnson and his chums mind. The advisory group are not professional dissemblers after all!

 

[Mogster]

Some people are very sure everything is the politician’s fault without any real evidence as to whether it is theirs or their expert advisors or NHS management or the civil servants (remember the Home Office dropping Amber Rudd in trouble....)
The most evasive interviewee i have seen so far was the head of the NHS.

Gove was correct the other night regarding PCR RNA testing capacity.

https://diagnostics.roche.com/global/en/products/systems/cobas-8800-system.html

Roche high capacity 6800/8800 equipment is what’s required but for now every country can only make the best use of what equipment they have already. There is an international market for more and we’re competing with the world for new machines and test kits. The system is proprietary so everyone is dependent on Roche supply, you can’t use reagents from random sources with the Roche Covid RNA assay. PHE are working 24/7 with the equipment and staff they have, as many machines as possible are being released from other work and transferred to PHE. This takes time, they are big machines, one of ours has just taken 4 days to dismantle... Then of course the routine work these machines do every day has to continue somehow...

It’s easy for the WHO to say “test test test” when the provide no resources to do so or tbh any advice what to do with the data collected.

 

[DarloRich]

Gove was correct the other night regarding PCR RNA testing capacity.

Roche high capacity 6800/8800 equipment is what’s required but for now every country can only make the best use of what equipment they have already. There is an international market for more and we’re competing with the world for new machines and test kits. The system is proprietary so everyone is dependent on Roche supply, you can’t use reagents from random sources with the Roche Covid RNA assay. PHE are working 24/7 with the equipment and staff they have, as many machines as possible are being released from other work and transferred to PHE. This takes time, they are big machines, one of ours has just taken 4 days to dismantle... Then of course the routine work these machines do every day has to continue somehow...

It’s easy for the WHO to say “test test test” when the provide no resources to do so or tbh any advice what to do with the data collected.

If that is one of the the reasons for limited testing they should say that. Put pictures of a massive machine up and say it takes 4 days to move this critical item and X days to recommission before we can start testing.

 

[Mogster]

If that is one of the the reasons for limited testing they should say that. Put pictures of a massive machine up and say it takes 4 days to move this critical item and X days to recommission before we can start testing.

That is the reason, along with the need to make sure the tests work before we implement them. Roche have the only very high throughput walk away PCR technology. I agree he could have added more detail but his statements were 100% correct.

The later comments from the chemical supply guy saying British companies could make the reagents were ridiculous. The whole system is proprietary and validated that way, you can’t just choose to use someone else’s reagents at a whim.

 

[AM9]

really.

socialism means the needs of the collective outweigh the needs of the individual.
no prizes for guessing how this turns out.

ps: i would hardly call boris right wing,he is very much on the "wet" end of the spectrum of toryism.
Not that I'm advocating a hardline right wing approach to this either,they would be of the mantra" let nature take it's course" and get rid of the physically unfit ,but corbyn's lot would be "get rid of the mentally-not with the collectivist programme"- unfit too.

either way, you see those at the higher echelons of power see the unwashed masses as collateral damage,basically expendable in the grand scale of things, while making a pretense they care.

Like i said, "Of course you have no idea how a Corbyn administration would be handling this epidemic." You can repeat all the Conservative propaganda about Labour/Corbyn et al, but nobody knows how different the handling would be, if indeed it was given the expertes would be saying much the same anyway.
I'll leave it at that as it is off-topic for this thread.

 

[DarloRich]

That is the reason, along with the need to make sure the tests work before we implement them. Roche have the only very high throughput walk away PCR technology. I agree he could have added more detail but his statements were 100% correct.

The later comments from the chemical supply guy saying British companies could make the reagents were ridiculous. The whole system is proprietary and validated that way, you can’t just choose to use someone else’s reagents at a whim.

Then they need to be absolutely clear about that. Show us why this massive machine is the issue. Explain. If chemicals can only come from one source explain that. Say who and where and why. Then explain what pressure you are bringing to bear to get that one company to license others to make more of the equipment or chemicals.

Instead we get waffle. We need more at this time of national crisis. We need honesty and openness. It sounds and smells like bull otherwise.

It still doesn't explain why Germany are able to test so many more people.

 

[Mag_seven]

We need to see daily forecasts of the number tests done / planned, the amount of PPE ordered and delivered, etc etc. Against those forecasts we need to see reports of actuals with an explanation of any variances. Its really basic stuff that any competent project manager would recognise as project progress reporting.

 

[Mogster]

Then they need to be absolutely clear about that. Show us why this massive machine is the issue. Explain. If chemicals can only come from one source explain that. Say who and where and why. Then explain what pressure you are bringing to bear to get that one company to license others to make more of the equipment or chemicals.

Instead we get waffle. We need more at this time of national crisis. We need honesty and openness. It sounds and smells like bull otherwise.

It still doesn't explain why Germany are able to test so many more people.

Germany most likely had more installed machines when the **** hit the fan. There were images of Roche gear in Germany on the news last night. I’m not sure how many tests Germany has actually done, unlike the UK, Korea and others they haven’t been releasing daily tested numbers. None I can find anyway, just, we intend to do XXXX, which the UK media then print as Germany are testing XXXX...

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Reporters better but still a bit soft and rambling in their questions.

Sharma was asked about PPE and said there was a 24 hour hotline for staff to obtain supplies. Why wasn't he asked to divulge the number? If NHS staff are having to go to B&Q to buy equipment they clearly don't know it. I can't find it on NHS site.

 

[Domh245]

Sharma was asked about PPE and said there was a 24 hour hotline for staff to obtain supplies. Why wasn't he asked to divulge the number? If NHS staff are having to go to B&Q to buy equipment they clearly don't know it. I can't find it on NHS site.

Probably because revealing that number in a public situation would then result in it being flooded by members of the public trying it on

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Probably because revealing that number in a public situation would then result in it being flooded by members of the public trying it on

....but the question wasn't even asked! my partner is a nurse and wasn't aware of it!

 

[Darandio]

....but the question wasn't even asked! my partner is a nurse and wasn't aware of it!

Even if your partner was aware, it doesn't guarantee they would get what they need. There are stories of staff ringing the hotline only to be told to then contact their normal supplier instead.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Serious questions need to be asked of China. Almost every major epidemic/pandemic of written history has originated there, from the Black Death to Covid-19...

This is interesting reading
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/is-factory-farming-to-blame-for-coronavirus

 

[edwin_m]

If that is one of the the reasons for limited testing they should say that. Put pictures of a massive machine up and say it takes 4 days to move this critical item and X days to recommission before we can start testing.

Why are they moving it? Why not just bring the samples to wherever it is?

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Even if your partner was aware, it doesn't guarantee they would get what they need. There are stories of staff ringing the hotline only to be told to then contact their normal supplier instead.

Ah....so there is a 24hr hotline then! (just for the Head of Procurement)

 

[Mogster]

Why are they moving it? Why not just bring the samples to wherever it is?

I understand the swab samples have to be prepared for testing in a biosafety 3 clean rooms, you need trained staff also. The machines need to be near the existing PHE staff and clean rooms and there aren’t many of those in the UK either.

 

[DarloRich]

Sharma was asked about PPE and said there was a 24 hour hotline for staff to obtain supplies. Why wasn't he asked to divulge the number? If NHS staff are having to go to B&Q to buy equipment they clearly don't know it. I can't find it on NHS site.

....but the question wasn't even asked! my partner is a nurse and wasn't aware of it!

I have seen several interviews were the government spokesman said, paraphrasing, those who need it have it and we don't want it swamped by time wasters.

The number of items shipped seems very impressive. It is less impressive if you ship 17 million pieces of inappropriate PPE. Anecdotally, many healthcare workers seem to be saying just that. Why would they lie?

 

[yorkie]

Can we please keep to the actual topic and can we also avoid speculation about what may have happened had a different political party been in power.

 

[hooverboy]

I understand the swab samples have to be prepared for testing in a biosafety 3 clean rooms, you need trained staff also. The machines need to be near the existing PHE staff and clean rooms and there aren’t many of those in the UK either.

clean rooms of that nature are not necessarily that hard to come by.

a lot of electronics facilities can be converted to deal with such a protocol.
most defence work is conducted under class 1000/class 10000 clean room conditions

 

[Peter Sarf]

Can we please keep to the actual topic and can we also avoid speculation about what may have happened had a different political party been in power.

Yes. I am sure not much would have been different. This is a national crisis and I m sure the limitations would be the same regardless of which party is in power. The approach is probably more dictated by circumstance and the civil service. The only difference would be the type of waffle. Better to talk about, in this thread, what is happening rather than dreaming about what could have been.

 

[Mogster]

clean rooms of that nature are not necessarily that hard to come by.

a lot of electronics facilities can be converted to deal with such a protocol.
most defence work is conducted under class 1000/class 10000 clean room conditions

You could probably re-purpose somewhere like that. As I understand it the main BSL3 criteria are negative pressure inward air flow and bio safety hood cabinets for sample prep tasks. With the current time constraints it’s easier to set up where you have trained staff though.

 

[6Gman]

Gove was correct the other night regarding PCR RNA testing capacity.

https://diagnostics.roche.com/global/en/products/systems/cobas-8800-system.html

Roche high capacity 6800/8800 equipment is what’s required but for now every country can only make the best use of what equipment they have already. There is an international market for more and we’re competing with the world for new machines and test kits. The system is proprietary so everyone is dependent on Roche supply, you can’t use reagents from random sources with the Roche Covid RNA assay. PHE are working 24/7 with the equipment and staff they have, as many machines as possible are being released from other work and transferred to PHE. This takes time, they are big machines, one of ours has just taken 4 days to dismantle... Then of course the routine work these machines do every day has to continue somehow...

It’s easy for the WHO to say “test test test” when the provide no resources to do so or tbh any advice what to do with the data collected.

So why hasn't the government said this ?