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Could a Sleeper service run to Wick?

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D6975

D6975

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I've done a search and can't find anything on here yet.

Can't believe no one else has read about it yet.
Scotrail are looking at runnng a Glasgow/Edinburgh - Wick (or is it Thurso?) sleeper service. The stock will be the coaches displaced by the new MK5 build. The reasoning is to give improved connections in/out of the Orkney/Shetland ferries.
The article is in Modern Railways.

(The idea was first proposed nearly a year ago)
 
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cf111

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I remain to be convinced that this will ever happen, for a start the ferry argument doesn't hold water (fnarr fnarr). If you wanted to head south from Orkney or Shetland it makes far more sense to go to Aberdeen where you could be on a train to London in a couple of hours. If you were coming from Shetland, you would have to get off the ferry in Kirkwall at 11PM, either stay in Kirkwall that night or get the ferry connecting Stagecoach bus to Stromness that night and stay there, then in the morning get on another ferry to Scrabster, and then spend all day in Thurso or, heaven forbid, Wick.

Operationally this (locomotive hauled) train would have to run to and from Wick because if it ran to Thurso the loco would have to be run around at Georgemas Junction both northbound and southbound or a second locomotive would have to be stabled there and coupled to the Thurso/Inverness end of the train on arrival at Georgemas.

I suppose strange things have happened recently; if you told me 5 years ago that ScotRail's Intercity services would be operated by HSTs in 2018 I would have smiled, slowly backed away and tried to have you sectioned so you never know!
 
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jopsuk

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From the story in that post it would seem that it is the idea of someone from HITRANS (rather than HITRANS policy as such) and that Caledonian Sleeper had basically done a bit of polite nodding and smiling.

It would presumably be Thurso, with a bus connection to Scrabster? Only really of use for Orkney, the onward ferry (once you get to Kirkwall from Stromness) is overnight and for half the year only on three nights
 
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I would imagine that rather than have a second loco waiting around for a costly shunt you'd top and tail it, particularly given the implications of a breakdown in the middle of nowhere. I guess it'd be a quite short train rather reminiscent of the Fort Bill, perhaps 2 sleepers, a lounge and a seated car?
 
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najaB

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Neil Williams said:
I would imagine that rather than have a second loco waiting around for a costly shunt you'd top and tail it, particularly given the implications of a breakdown in the middle of nowhere. I guess it'd be a quite short train rather reminiscent of the Fort Bill, perhaps 2 sleepers, a lounge and a seated car?
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Pretty sure that there are restrictions on top and tail locomotives on the FNL - I don't think you'd get away with a pair of 67s. How many 20s are there operational these days? :D
 
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najaB said:
Pretty sure that there are restrictions on top and tail locomotives on the FNL - I don't think you'd get away with a pair of 67s. How many 20s are there operational these days? :D
Click to expand...

I was assuming it'd be a pair of 73s. Presumably you could through wire the coaches so they were both operating.
 
cf111

cf111

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I would be significantly more perceptive to this idea if a 37 was situated at either end of the train. Not that I'm in to that sort of thing, you understand...
 
najaB

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Neil Williams said:
I was assuming it'd be a pair of 73s. Presumably you could through wire the coaches so they were both operating.
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Just had a look at the SA - there's a restriction on double-heading, but nothing about top-and-tail. 73s aren't cleared but that could just be that nobody has had a reason to do the paperwork until now.
 
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Bald Rick

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If the Scottish government pay for this, they need to be locked up. Subsidy would probably be nudging £1000 per passenger.
 
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Blindtraveler said:
What ever traction is used will need good reliability. If utilising the existing MK2 seats then hope they change the heating/air con to something reliable and give everything incl toilets a spruce up.
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I would expect they would try to go all-Mk3 as the length constraint wouldn't apply. Shouldn't be too hard to source a FO for the seated coach, a buffet first for the lounge and a DVT for the van once the Anglian FLIRTs show up.
 
47271

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Groan, not this one again. I'd be flabbergasted if it happens. It would involve either sky high and uncompetitive ticket prices, or sky high subsidy, or both.
 
Please Explain

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Surely this has to be an early April fools?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekC View Post
I know! Convert the 442s to sleeping accommodation and run them with a 73 in the middle.
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I could see that coming a mile away! :lol:
 
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Has anyone considered putting hammocks in a District Line set, powered by a Transit van engine?
 
Clansman

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I'm a fan of increasing sleeper routes, but this just seems like one of those things always talked about every so often before it dies down again for a year.

Sleepers are hard enough to make economically viable so in my opinion if such a thing were to come to fruition, then a summer trial would be the first major appropriate step to establish just how such a service would fair, and how it would impact the financial situations of the local economy and Scotrail itself. Looking at it, I think the wider benefits on rural economies may outweigh the costs of running the initial service.

Never say never though. With all the infrastructure projects the Scottish Government has introduced over the years, I think a sleeper service would be a welcome addition as well as a symbol of the progress that has been made to drastically improve Scotland's railway.
 
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Clansman said:
Sleepers are hard enough to make economically viable so in my opinion if such a thing were to come to fruition, then a summer trial would be the first major appropriate step to establish just how such a service would fair, and how it would impact the financial situations of the local economy and Scotrail itself. Looking at it, I think the wider benefits on rural economies may outweigh the costs of running the initial service.
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I think you would want to run it when the various parliaments are in session. Westminster MPs can travel in 1st class if the ticket, if it is less than the cost of a standard open fare, so I would expect there be some expensive advanced first class fares, and really expensive open standard ones.
 
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class26

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najaB said:
Rail travel north of the border is a devolved matter so I can't see how or why the 'English' taxpayer would be funding it.
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Never heard of the Barnett formula ? It is Westminster giving money to Edinburgh. Now given that the population of England is 10 times that of Scotland it simply stands to reason that the majority of that money comes from the English tax payer.
 
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jopsuk

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However the formula wouldn't be altered to accommodate a subsidy to a single sleeper service.
 
47271

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bspahh said:
I think you would want to run it when the various parliaments are in session. Westminster MPs can travel in 1st class if the ticket, if it is less than the cost of a standard open fare, so I would expect there be some expensive advanced first class fares, and really expensive open standard ones.
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So that's one passenger once in a blue moon then, when the Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross MP happens to be in the right bit of Caithness one evening. Oh, wait a minute, this train would only get them as far as Edinburgh, so they wouldn't use it either. [emoji38]
 
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najaB

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class26 said:
Never heard of the Barnett formula ?
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It so happens that I have. However, the grant wouldn't be increased to pay for this service so the Scottish Government would have to cut spending elsewhere or use their revenue-raising powers since, as I said, rail transport north of the border is a devolved matter.

And, just so you know, the Barnett allocation comes out of the UK Government's revenue, rather than from 'English taxpayers'.
 
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