Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[WatcherZero]

May I ask if there have ever been other such clause insertions that specifically favour one such particular product?

Only one I can think of is Arriva Trains Wales which included that they had to trial ERTMS.

Part XI
11. ERTMS
11.1 In full expectation that the proposed trial of ERTMS equipment on the line between Machynlleth Station and Dovey Junction will proceed, the Franchise Operator agrees in principle and subject as hereinafter provided to participate in a programme which will include, without limitation, procurement, train fitment, testing, obtaining approvals, training Operation ('ERTMS Trial'). The Franchise Operator agrees at the Authority's request to enter in to good faith negotiations with the Authority and National ERTMS Project Team regarding the scope and terms of the Franchise Operator's participation in the ERTMS Trial (including as to the costs payable to the Franchise Operator) on the basis of the Authority's specification for the ERTMS trial dated 15th May 2003 and the Franchisees proposal in response (including as to the costs payable) dated 9th June 2003 ('ERTMS Proposal') as set out in the agreed terms and marked "ERTMS", with the aim of concluding such negotiations and entering in to a formal agreement recording such terms no later than 30th April 2004 or such later date as the parties may agree. The parties acknowledge and agree the Authority's specification for the ERTMS Trial will need to be amended and the Franchise Operator agrees to negotiate such changes in good faith and on the basis of the ERTMS Proposal and with the intent that there is a clear linkage between the ERTMS Proposal and the costs payable to the Franchise Operator. Following agreement of scope and terms, the Franchise Operator will proceed with the ERTMS Trial in accordance with such terms.

Whoever wrote that clause was no poet :P

 

[SF-02]

Southeastern will start receiving extra electric stock before the year is out. But that's off topic.

With the Dover sea wall closure, stock is even further stretched with 466s now operating to 39 diagrams out of 43 units - and with one away at Doncaster at a time that leaves 3 spare. The line these will be used on will all become clear rather soon.

Cheers for the replies. It should never have got to this stage with so little resilience at Southeastern - sea wall issue or not. The DfT are hopeless at times. Specifying new or additional stock all over the country but nothing for SE until too late. Glad moves are finally in hand.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Southeastern will start receiving extra electric stock before the year is out. But that's off topic.

With the Dover sea wall closure, stock is even further stretched with 466s now operating to 39 diagrams out of 43 units - and with one away at Doncaster at a time that leaves 3 spare. The line these will be used on will all become clear rather soon.

The obvious candidate in that neck of the woods would be Marshlink, but alas that is a GTR route not SouthEastern... am I right to expect endless posts on here about wasteful use of diesels over the juice rail?

 

[Class 466]

The obvious candidate in that neck of the woods would be Marshlink, but alas that is a GTR route not SouthEastern... am I right to expect endless posts on here about wasteful use of diesels over the juice rail?

You are indeed... At least the line is only short and self contained! (Similar to The Lymington Branch - in fact why not there? Been a while since 456s were constantly suggested, let's start a new one )

 

[NoMorePacers]

The New One: 67+458 for Paddington-Penzance services

 

[Harbornite]

Only one I can think of is Arriva Trains Wales which included that they had to trial ERTMS.



Whoever wrote that clause was no poet :P

Next time, they should use bullet points!

 

[RobShipway]

I thought it had been explained time and time again that the reason it is not being electrified is because the platforms at Bourne End do not allow for reversing 4 car trains such as a 387, and there are no suitable short EMUs to use.

Here for instance, which you must have forgotten: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=113919&highlight=marlow&page=8

The lack of electrification results from an acknowledgement of the platform and train length problem, it is not due to any difficulty with electrification in itself.

Oops...yes had forgotten. I know though that GWR are looking at using the class 387's on the North Downs Line with being battery operated off the mains overhead, whether that means that they would also need to be 3rd rail capable as well to recharge batteries at Redhill/Gatwick before the return journey, who knows.

 

[theageofthetra]

Do these units have toilets and cab A/C fitted?

 

[Dstock7080]

With LU they had cab air-cooling fitted.

Fitting of toilets would be down to the individual customer/operator to specify.

 

[jimm]

Do these units have toilets and cab A/C fitted?

The centre coach on the demonstrator set will, I believe, have a toilet fitted but as Dstock7080 says, toilets are being offered as an optional fitting, like different seating arrangements, depending on what any potential customer wants.

 

[Bungle965]

The centre coach on the demonstrator set will, I believe, have a toilet fitted but as Dstock7080 says, toilets are being offered as an optional fitting, like different seating arrangements, depending on what any potential customer wants.

It's almost like it is being offered as a bespoke product!
Sam

 

[Dstock7080]

It's almost like it is being offered as a bespoke product!
Sam

Indeed they would be.

Once a firm order is received a temporary workshop area will be built and units could start to be turned out within 6 months of that order - releasing 2 units per month.

Only the demonstrator has been completed this far.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Once a firm order is received a temporary workshop area will be built and units could start to be turned out within 6 months of that order - releasing 2 units per month.

Is that the maximum number that can be sent onwards from a firm order programme? What would be their stated production maximisation should they receive more than one order to fulfil on a concurrent basis?

 

[MatthewRead]

Oops...yes had forgotten. I know though that GWR are looking at using the class 387's on the North Downs Line with being battery operated off the mains overhead, whether that means that they would also need to be 3rd rail capable as well to recharge batteries at Redhill/Gatwick before the return journey, who knows.

And possibly in Devon and Cornwall as it's been revealed by the latest issue of Modern Railways that the lines can't be wired along the sea wall area so battery powered trains are being considered but lets face it they'd need a lot of juice.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

And possibly in Devon and Cornwall as it's been revealed by the latest issue of Modern Railways that the lines can't be wired along the sea wall area so battery powered trains are being considered but lets face it they'd need a lot of juice.

Did it give a reason why?

 

[Harbornite]

Did it give a reason why?

I assum that the saltwater is to blame, makes you how many locations are there where railways with OHLE run so close to the sea.

 

[Domh245]

And possibly in Devon and Cornwall as it's been revealed by the latest issue of Modern Railways that the lines can't be wired along the sea wall area so battery powered trains are being considered but lets face it they'd need a lot of juice.

I'd take it with a pinch of Salt. The forum's resident electrification guru has said a number of times that there is nothing to stop them from wiring along the coast. Electrically, it's fine (as evidenced by saltcoats) all it needs is shorter spacings between masts (IIRC)

 

[Bletchleyite]

And possibly in Devon and Cornwall as it's been revealed by the latest issue of Modern Railways that the lines can't be wired along the sea wall area so battery powered trains are being considered but lets face it they'd need a lot of juice.

I find this surprising, I'm sure there are wired sea wall lines elsewhere in the world.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Electrically, it's fine (as evidenced by saltcoats) all it needs is shorter spacings between masts (IIRC)

Saltcoats is indeed an exceptionally well titled station to name on this thread on such a discussion of the matter under discussion.

 

[Harbornite]

I'd take it with a pinch of Salt. The forum's resident electrification guru has said a number of times that there is nothing to stop them from wiring along the coast. Electrically, it's fine (as evidenced by saltcoats) all it needs is shorter spacings between masts (IIRC)

Ironically, it's salt that poses the problem...

 

[Bungle965]

Ironically, it's salt that poses the problem...

I believe that it is the salt that is the problem for XC because of this they have to turn back their Voyagers at Exeter St Davids, as it causes all sorts of problems for the Voyagers electronics.
Sam

 

[philthetube]

not quite the same but Blackpool trams manage.

 

[47802]

not quite the same but Blackpool trams manage.

and generally not quite so close to the sea as they are at Dawlish though.

 

[theageofthetra]

Doesn't the Dublin DART run by the sea near Bray? The Irish sea was quite salty last time I swam in it!

 

[Bungle965]

not quite the same but Blackpool trams manage.

They do now, but i remember when they first started they had a lot of trouble with the salt from the sea.
Sam

 

[coppercapped]

I believe that it is the salt that is the problem for XC because of this they have to turn back their Voyagers at Exeter St Davids, as it causes all sorts of problems for the Voyagers electronics.
Sam

If MathewRead had quoted Modern Railways correctly one will find that it is nowhere stated that the railway can't be wired along the sea wall.

The article in fact refers to a summary of current work published by 'The Peninsular Rail Task Force' on more resilient routes to the far South West. The Peninsular Rail Task Force was

...formed in early 2013 by a partnership of local authorities, business representation organisations, universities and Travel Watch South West. Its aim is to coordinate partners from across the South West to build and put the case for greater investment into the rail network for Cornwall, Devon, Plymouth, Somerset and Torbay.
It has been selected by the Government as the representative body to identify and recommend strategic and local rail improvements up to 2034 (the end of the national rail funding control period 8) to Ministers. It is advised by the Department for Transport and Network Rail.

The Modern Railways report in fact states:

Electrification west of Exeter is ruled out as it is unlikely that the benefits generated would offset the cost of the work, with procurement of additional, newer vehicles offering greater comfort and better performance recommended instead.

So, not 'can't' but 'unlikely'.

 

[nuneatonmark]

Could have sworn this was a thread about the proposed Vivarail 230 conversion, not another thread about electrification.

 

[MatthewRead]

Could have sworn this was a thread about the proposed Vivarail 230 conversion, not another thread about electrification.

Sorry about that like I said I want these trains to find new homes as i grew up travelling on them.

 

[Harbornite]

Could have sworn this was a thread about the proposed Vivarail 230 conversion, not another thread about electrification.

Good point, I almost forgot about that. It won't be too long before we see these units being tested on the Cotswolds.

 

[fgwrich]

Has there been any hints of where these may end up?

I can think of a few lines I reckon these 230s would be genuinely useful for, not least including Chiltern Railways Princess Risborough - Aylesbury (Those Bubble cars can't soldier on for much longer, not least with the looming DDA dealines), London Midlands Cov - Nuneaton shuttles.