Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[Bletchleyite]

This has been discussed regularly in the Island Line thread as well. It’s as though some posters are really keen to remove existing infrastructure “because it can be”, and can’t cope with the alternate possibility it could just be brought up to normal standards.

Perhaps a case of finding a solution, and then looking for a problem to go with it?

I think there would actually be a good case to rip it all up and lay new CWR etc with a loop at Brading, which would last another 50 years with minimal maintenance - but if money can be saved by not electrifying it?

 

[hwl]

I think there would actually be a good case to rip it all up and lay new CWR etc with a loop at Brading, which would last another 50 years with minimal maintenance - but if money can be saved by not electrifying it?

Alternatively just sort the 3rd rail and running rail bonding, the return rail bonding could easily be sorted by replacement with CWR (heavier section unjointed rail so much lower resistance)

The substations are of course not ideally located for charging...

 

[MarkyT]

I don't believe there are huge savings to be made by removing the existing 3rd rail on Island Line, but a discontinuous approach could allow its removal in troublesome areas such as on Ryde pier and through the flood prone tunnel and a smaller, cheaper battery pack might then suffice with no reliance on fast charging and be able to overcome the performance limitations of voltage drop at extremities and storr and reuse braking energy. Obviously the full battery only solution would be appropriate for lines that currently have no electrification.

 

[edwin_m]

The existing substations and the third rail itself probably date from the electrification in the 1960s and if so will be needing replacement anyway. As there are relatively few trains involved, it may be sensible to buy battery trains and new charging equipment instead, if they can deliver reliable service considering the route length and charging time available. This would also eliminate the maintenance and safety issues arising from the third rail.

 

[MarkyT]

Ooh - 60 miles between charges..... The Island line is 8.5 miles each way so a 17 mile round trip. That's 3 complete trips with no charging...... Looks promising.

Better for resilience to top up on each turn round nevertheless so you don't normally have to do a full charge.

 

[MarkyT]

The existing substations and the third rail itself probably date from the electrification in the 1960s and if so will be needing replacement anyway. As there are relatively few trains involved, it may be sensible to buy battery trains and new charging equipment instead, if they can deliver reliable service considering the route length and charging time available. This would also eliminate the maintenance and safety issues arising from the third rail.

I agree for avoidance of full 3rd rail renewal, the full battery solution might make sense. One thing to be cautious about though is that if they do take it out completely they will probably never be allowed to reinstate it for oft discussed safety reasons.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think there would actually be a good case to rip it all up and lay new CWR etc with a loop at Brading, which would last another 50 years with minimal maintenance - but if money can be saved by not electrifying it?

How are you going to get your CWR onto the island then?

 

[krus_aragon]

How are you going to get your CWR onto the island then?

I suggest a combination of one of these:

(EMD Rail Unloading System)

with one of these:

xkcd comic about extending tape measures to world-record lengths

Park it on the south coast, and keep pushing the CWR out to sea until it reaches Ryde Pier!

 

[Bletchleyite]

How are you going to get your CWR onto the island then?

Weld it in place. Which is how you get it anywhere else!

 

[Harpers Tate]

How are you going to get your CWR onto the island then?

I have a cunning plan. We'll cut it into shorter lengths for shipping.






(And then use Thermite Welds to join the bits up of course).

 

[reddragon]

This has been discussed regularly in the Island Line thread as well. It’s as though some posters are really keen to remove existing infrastructure “because it can be”, and can’t cope with the alternate possibility it could just be brought up to normal standards.

Perhaps a case of finding a solution, and then looking for a problem to go with it?

The idea is to have batteries to aid acceleration and low voltage sections to avoid costly upgrades and to remove the dodgy pier section

 

[Bletchleyite]

The idea is to have batteries to aid acceleration and low voltage sections to avoid costly upgrades and to remove the dodgy pier section

Bodge job ahoy!

 

[edwin_m]

I have a cunning plan. We'll cut it into shorter lengths for shipping.

Or buy a very long very narrow boat.

 

[Phil from Mon]

A friend of mine never cuts logs for the fire, just pushes full-length branches in until they are burnt!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst the discussion on the possible use of Class 230 units on the Island Line has been a source of much discussion on this thread, both of an operational and of a technical nature, how much is the actual reality of how the TOC view on such a matter has reached official discussions with Vivarail over the period of the last twelve months?

 

[anamyd]

This has been discussed regularly in the Island Line thread as well. It’s as though some posters are really keen to remove existing infrastructure “because it can be”, and can’t cope with the alternate possibility it could just be brought up to normal standards.

Perhaps a case of finding a solution, and then looking for a problem to go with it?

which Island Line thread...? Can you link it please...?

 

[swt_passenger]

which Island Line thread...? Can you link it please...?

Here you go: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/island-line-railway-current-state-and-the-future.154219/

 

[anamyd]

Here you go: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/island-line-railway-current-state-and-the-future.154219/

Thanks!

 

[JohnElliott]

How are you going to get your CWR onto the island then?

Dig out the plans for a tunnel under the Solent, build it, and bring the rails in through that

 

[158820]

I am suprised none of the avid contributors to this thread picked up on the news from Modern Railways who held a conference in Wales on the 22nd. Mr Shooter was a guest. There are a good few tweets with details of his speech( I wont list all of them).

This is the main headline.

'First Vivarail build is 3x2-car diesel units for
@WestMidRailway
which are due to enter service in the next week or so #ffcwales'
https://mobile.twitter.com/Modern_Railways/status/1109108366662660096

 

[anamyd]

I am suprised none of the avid contributors to this thread picked up on the news from Modern Railways who held a conference in Wales on the 22nd. Mr Shooter was a guest. There are a good few tweets with details of his speech( I wont list all of them).

This is the main headline.

'First Vivarail build is 3x2-car diesel units for
@WestMidRailway
which are due to enter service in the next week or so #ffcwales'
https://mobile.twitter.com/Modern_Railways/status/1109108366662660096

Thanks for posting this

 

[Jozhua]

Looking forward to seeing some of these ̶o̶l̶d̶ new trains in action!

 

[anamyd]

I am suprised none of the avid contributors to this thread picked up on the news from Modern Railways who held a conference in Wales on the 22nd. Mr Shooter was a guest. There are a good few tweets with details of his speech( I wont list all of them).

This is the main headline.

'First Vivarail build is 3x2-car diesel units for
@WestMidRailway
which are due to enter service in the next week or so #ffcwales'
https://mobile.twitter.com/Modern_Railways/status/1109108366662660096

All TfW 230s have started production; the first unit will be delivered in the summer with all units delivered and in service by the end of the year.

I read all of the tweets and they were a very interesting read! So Kane Jellyman works for CAF now ey...? Did he get fed up of being at Bombardier...?

Edit: Just looked at his LinkedIn profile and it really is him! He transferred in October - head of production of course. Fair play to the lad!!! (He featured in The Fifteen Billion Pound Railway, inside Derby works with the 345s in build)

The 100 carriages include 153s, 230s and 769s. No 170s then...?

 

[Neen Sollars]

Thank for the updates on the 230`s, posted info on a TfW thread

 

[DarloRich]

'First Vivarail build is 3x2-car diesel units for
@WestMidRailway
which are due to enter service in the next week or so

I hope this is accurate. I don't think that it is mind.

 

[158820]

I hope this is accurate. I don't think that it is mind.

I know you would hope there would be a bit excitement if it was true.
There was a poster on here saying the 230s had yet to carry out a crash test and it was required. Has anyone heard anymore about it?

 

[Neen Sollars]

I know you would hope there would be a bit excitement if it was true.
There was a poster on here saying the 230s had yet to carry out a crash test and it was required. Has anyone heard anymore about it?

You mean something like this?..................

 

[anamyd]

I know you would hope there would be a bit excitement if it was true.
There was a poster on here saying the 230s had yet to carry out a crash test and it was required. Has anyone heard anymore about it?

I'm pretty sure that Class 230 passed a crash test that was carried out after cab strengthening in September 2015 according to http://vivarail.co.uk/class-230-development/ which is difficult for me to quote (scroll down), and I remember reading a while back that it would have passed it even without the cab strengthening, but they added it to better protect occupants in the event of a crash.

 

[anamyd]

Here's a tweet about the Transport for Wales 230s:

Modern Railways Twitter, 22 Mar 2019 - https://twitter.com/Modern_Railways/status/1109110750122000384

Adrian Shooter says all five @Vivarail Class 230s for @tfwrail in production at an early stage, first one to be delivered in the summer. First will have prototype train for driver training, aiming to have all five trains in service by the end of the year #ffcwales

 

[sw1ller]

I'm pretty sure that Class 230 passed a crash test that was carried out after cab strengthening in September 2015 according to http://vivarail.co.uk/class-230-development/ which is difficult for me to quote (scroll down), and I remember reading a while back that it would have passed it even without the cab strengthening, but they added it to better protect occupants in the event of a crash.

I’d personally rather see a test of one hitting a tractor at 60mph than a barrel of water at 20mph. Being as ill be sat at the front, I don’t think the previous test was sufficient.