Island Line Railway - current state and the future

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Stroud Valleys, 16 Sep 2017.

  1. Stroud Valleys

    Stroud Valleys Member

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    Any news on whether the current rolling stock is going to be refurbished or replaced as well as any plans for the physical infrastructure once network rail get the network back in their hands. Lots of talk about the pier and a new loop but nothing new.
     
    Last edited: 1 Oct 2017
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  3. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Out of interest, what would a new loop (I will assume Brading as that is always the place mentioned) achieve? The only thing I can think of is a standard 30:30 interval service, as surely any ramping up of service to 3tph etc would be totally unviable in its current form? Is the current 20:40 split really that big a problem?
     
  4. Chris M

    Chris M Member

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    The loop at Brading is indeed intended to allow an even 30:30 service.
    An even service interval is always more attractive for passengers than an uneven one and a 30-minute interval is psychologically significantly better than a 40 minute one.
    A 20-minute interval would be even better from a passenger POV of course, as that's about the limit of a turn-up-and-go service, but what infrastructure is required to support that on the IoW I don't know.
     
  5. DelW

    DelW Member

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    The crucial factor is the connection with the fastcat ferries to Portsmouth, which a high proportion of passengers are transferring to or from. Those run mostly at even 30 minute intervals, so at present the trains connect well only once per hour, the other hourly train misses the ferry in one direction and gives a longer wait in the other.

    A 3tph service at 20 minute intervals could be run on the present infrastructure, as that's what the existing loops were set up for. It would of course need more units to be in use, and there may not be enough serviceable now.

    A side benefit of the Brading loop is that trains would no longer need to cross south of St Johns, so Island Line could use a single track and allow the steam line to extend from Smallbrook Junction into St Johns.
     
  6. Stroud Valleys

    Stroud Valleys Member

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    Surely the easiest thing to do is to have a 20 minute frequency as the current set up allows for this despute tbere beibg sufficient rolling stock. Longer term a new loop could be installed at Branding to allow the frequency to drop to 30 minutes during less busy periods
     
  7. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

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    South Western Railway have referred to 'more modern' rolling stock replacing the current fleet - we should find out more in the next few weeks when they launch a consultation on their plans.

    http://www.islandecho.co.uk/first-mtr-south-western-to-take-over-island-line/
     
  8. DelW

    DelW Member

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    They would have a job to find any less modern rolling stock than the present fleet. Most preserved lines run newer stock than Island Line.
     
  9. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    And that could be where SWR will go looking. :)
     
  10. The Ham

    The Ham Established Member

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  11. DenmarkRail

    DenmarkRail Member

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    I wonder if D Trains would fit the tunnel...?
     
  12. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    New here? They don't. It's been discussed to death before though.
     
  13. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Though their 'little sisters" the '83 Stock would've been ideal had they not been stuffed and mounted...
     
  14. DenmarkRail

    DenmarkRail Member

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    What about current Bakerloo stock? Up for replacement soon?
     
  15. 1018509

    1018509 Member

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    Any tube sized stock scrapped since the 38 LUL stock would have done.
     
  16. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

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    current Bakerloo is probably worse than they have, I understand, (though am happy to be corrected), that there would be potential corrosion issues with the satl water on the pier.
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Lower the track and use PEPs? Ally so won't rot?
     
  18. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Nope, won't be available til late 2020s perhaps later.

    There is virtually no stored LU stock at present. Virtually all of the redundant 67 stock off the Victoria Line has been scrapped now, as has the last of the ex Northern Line 72 stock. There *may* just be enough 67/72 stock still sitting around to cobble together a very small number of 2-car trains, but even that I doubt. In any case, patching up long-stored stock is never a good idea.

    Next to go will probably be the Piccadilly Line, still around mid 2020s at the earliest.

    Whatever option is being looked at for newer stock, I can't see it being ex LU at the present time.
     
  19. johnnychips

    johnnychips Established Member

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    How many trains do you need to cover the current diagrams, as a matter of interest? Presume it would be the same with the passing loop, but they would be able to have a fixed-interval timetable.
     
  20. tom1649

    tom1649 Member

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    I had a thought about a possible reuse for the current Glasgow subway stock but it has a narrower running gauge unfortunately.
     
  21. trash80

    trash80 Established Member

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    The delay in the Deep Tube Upgrade stuffed them, they declined the 83TS in favour of the 73TS which was supposed to have been replaced on the Piccadilly Line already (and thus already running on the Island Line).

    They have been talking about going down the tram route with ex-Brum T69s but i hope not.
     
  22. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The AnsaldoBreda trams are garbage, the lot of them. That's why Metrolink replaced theirs early.

    If they're going tram, it'd be as well to buy new, they are cheaper than trains and in such an undemanding role (provided they don't rot) should last well.

    Here's a curved ball - DLR units when the new ones arrive?
     
  23. DPWH

    DPWH Member

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    So if they can't use ex-LUL stock, could an order for a few more carriages be tacked onto an existing LUL order for new stock?
     
  24. trash80

    trash80 Established Member

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    Is there the money to buy new? Quite novel for the Isle of Wight railways, when was the last time they had new stock on the island? :D
     
  25. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Seems to be 2x 2-car units most of the time, doubled up increasingly less often at busy times. So minimum fleet size would need to be 8 cars. Asking for 100% availability of old trains is not ideal, so a working minimum is really 10 - which is what they run with at present (I believe 002 has been out of use for many years).
     
  26. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Again, unlikely to be any LU orders for perhaps 3 to 5 years, and any LU order would be rather over-specified for the island.

    One other fleet could be the current Waterloo and City trains, if this ends up being the testbed for the next generation of LU trains. Whether it would be wise to take on the problematic 92 stock is another matter, although the drain units have probably had a less intensive life. Not sure how easy it would be to make them into 2 cars however, plus LU may want them for spares, and they could be rather obsolete if they get left out from the retractioning of the main fleet as is I believe the current plan.
     
    Last edited: 26 Sep 2017
  27. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Two trains required.

    Where resources allow, the longer diagram does a unit swap during the day, so utilising 3 units.
     
  28. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

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    Something has to happen with the Island Line. As fond as I am of the stock, it's so well past its sell by date that it's grown antlers and a tail
     
  29. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Does anyone have any idea how expensive / difficult it would be to simply resolve the clearance issue in the Ryde tunnel?

    If it's feasible to do fairly easily, this gives the option to use plenty of forthcoming available DC units - for example retractioned 455s - plus the option of diesel units. Plenty of Pacers from 2020 onwards.

    A lot presumably depends on just how feasible it is to keep the 38 stock running. The "do nothing" option has always prevailed to date.
     
    Last edited: 26 Sep 2017
  30. DelW

    DelW Member

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    I'd guess at least a century ago, if even then. The island railways have run on suburban cast-offs since pre-grouping days.
     
  31. DerekC

    DerekC Member

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    I believe the answer is difficult and expensive because somebody laid pipes under the trackbed after the end of steam on the island - but that is third hand and I am not sure that it's true.
     

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