My contribution is to show how "third-world" the Class 230 project is in my eyes, speaking as someone resident in the 21st century and living in expectation that brand-new rolling stock would be the norm in what is supposed to be a major European country
Where do you get this idea that all trains should be new from?
Not every railway line can justify new trains, just like not every bus route can justify new buses.
The 230s are similar to the way that weve seen London buses cascaded onto provincial operations converted London vehicles (i.e. with the second door removed) can be seen in most other British cities.
I dont know why the idea of converting some heavy rail vehicles from London should attract the same sniffiness?
Its not ideal (and wouldnt it be spiffing if every route could get brand new vehicles etc etc), but its a realistic option to consider.
Many bus routes in Sheffield have had cascaded/converted London buses (whether Presidents/ Tridents or Darts). Theyre not perfect, but I can understand why operators would rather put a ten year old ex-London vehicle on a route rather than purchase brand new vehicles.
Budgets are going to be tight over the next decade the railway industry has been spared most of the austerity weve seen in other public services, but I think we have to be mindful of costs and buying lots of new DMUs is an expensive way of dealing with a short/medium term problem.
Theres a serious discussion to be had about how we provide capacity to unelectrified lines over the next ten years (given that theres currently a backlog of electrification, but CP6/CP7 should see significant inroads made, so buy hundreds of DMUs isnt a realistic answer)...
...we could talk about what level of investment is appropriate on lightly used branches (e.g. whether heavy rail is still appropriate)...
...we could discuss which routes a 60mph unit could cope with (e.g. the Northern service from Sheffield to Manchester via Edale takes around 75 minutes to travel fortysomething miles, the Northern service from Sheffield to Leeds via Castleford takes around 75 minutes to travel fortysomething miles)...
...or you can keep typing Incubus to try to provoke a reaction. Up to you.
If there are those amongst us who think the purchase of ex-LU units of a certain age then to make modified rebuilds of these and expect that project to be a success, then this is your right to think that way
As above - most UK cities have had modified London buses "of a certain age" cascaded to them, without the sky falling in.
I too hold to my particular view which will never change
Indeed.
It is a characteristic of this thread that, whilst many will suggest places suitable for their use, few want them close to their homes. A little like nuclear power stations (an ideal for use for the Royal Parks?).
As I've said a few times on this thread, there are a lot of local services in my neck of the woods where the current Northern service has an average speed of well under sixty miles per hour (e.g. taking well over an hour to do the fortysomething miles from Sheffield to Leeds/ Manchester).