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Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

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Camden

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northwichcat

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Camden said:
Absolutely certain. The green with white stripe was unmistakable. As was the everlasting gobstopper as a logo.

And after a quick search here is a 2011 letter confirming my visual observation https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4824/f0007890.pdf
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That's not what I'm saying. I accept in 2011 and later there would have been ex-LM 150s in both blue and green liveries- some actually had one carriage in both due to the 150s being reformed. However, what I'm questioning is whether in 2016 there is still a Northern Rail 150 in green. AFAIK the ex-LM ones have all been repainted in Northern livery and have all been given purple seat covers, if one's been missed I haven't seen it for a few years.
 
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WatcherZero

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jcollins said:
I would have thought the most recent occasion would be when the Oldham Loop closed for Metrolink conversion and they didn't want to pay to strengthen Calder Vale services, despite the majority of Oldham Loop passengers using those services opposed to the bus they were providing all the way to Manchester. That resulted in 5 x 142s being taken out-of-service until GMPTE/TfGM backtracked.
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I was the Dft that refused to pay for the stock to be internally cascaded, TfGM actually stepped in and paid for three of them to continue to be used themselves until the Dft relented about a year later and agreed to fund all 5's continued use at Northern.
 
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sprinterguy

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jcollins said:
However, what I'm questioning is whether in 2016 there is still a Northern Rail 150 in green. AFAIK the ex-LM ones have all been repainted in Northern livery and have all been given purple seat covers, if one's been missed I haven't seen it for a few years.
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All of the ex-LM 150s received Northern livery fairly rapidly. I don't think that there's been any sort of suggestion to the contrary.
 
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jcollins said:
That's not what I'm saying. I accept in 2011 and later there would have been ex-LM 150s in both blue and green liveries- some actually had one carriage in both due to the 150s being reformed. However, what I'm questioning is whether in 2016 there is still a Northern Rail 150 in green. AFAIK the ex-LM ones have all been repainted in Northern livery and have all been given purple seat covers, if one's been missed I haven't seen it for a few years.
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I did say "a few years ago".
 
Class172

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sprinterguy said:
All of the ex-LM 150s received Northern livery fairly rapidly. I don't think that there's been any sort of suggestion to the contrary.
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Indeed, I think the last units to remain in the former Central Trains livery were the units that London Midland retained (105,107,109).
 
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northwichcat

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WatcherZero said:
I was the Dft that refused to pay for the stock to be internally cascaded, TfGM actually stepped in and paid for three of them to continue to be used themselves until the Dft relented about a year later and agreed to fund all 5's continued use at Northern.
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No-one agreed to pay initially - not DfT, TfGM or Northern, but once TfGM discovered how crowded some Calder Valley services had become as a direct consequence of the Oldham Loop closure.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Camden said:
In that case how might you term second hand 150s, displaced from Centro, turning up on Northern Rail only a few years ago? Third hand?

Getting off the train from London I recall seeing one parked up at the adjacent platform at Liverpool Lime Street running a service to Manchester or Warrington, still in Centro livery!
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Camden said:
I did say "a few years ago".
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It wasn't clear that you were referring to getting off a train a few years ago opposed to the cascade happening a few years ago. I think any regular Northern passenger in the North West will have seen 150s on Northern services in their old liveries.
 
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Camden

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I think it was quite clear. Not that it's that much of a big deal is it?
 
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colchesterken

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There was an interesting in "Rail" this week about the Isle of White railway, and the problems replacing stock
How about ripping out the electrics and running cl 230 as it is slow speed line minimal
track recon could be done basic signals and new passing loops to allow for a better service
Not sure how much it would cost to lower the track in the tunnel but it would be much cheaper than the wholesale rebuild needed for new trains or trams which would require new OLE and power upgrade
 
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A0wen

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colchesterken said:
There was an interesting in "Rail" this week about the Isle of White railway, and the problems replacing stock
How about ripping out the electrics and running cl 230 as it is slow speed line minimal
track recon could be done basic signals and new passing loops to allow for a better service
Not sure how much it would cost to lower the track in the tunnel but it would be much cheaper than the wholesale rebuild needed for new trains or trams which would require new OLE and power upgrade
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Lowering the trackbed is probably not that difficult or costly, however the fact is it was raised because of regular flooding - so surely lowering Ryde tunnel would increase the flood problem?

I suspect the D trains might also have some other gauging issues on the island as well...
 
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northwichcat

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Camden said:
I think it was quite clear. Not that it's that much of a big deal is it?
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No which I why I read "Getting off the train from London I recall seeing one parked up at the adjacent platform at Liverpool Lime Street running a service to Manchester or Warrington, still in Centro livery!" as not being recent. The exclamation mark suggests you were surprised, why would you be surprised if a recent transfer isn't in the livery of the new operator straight away? Hardly worth mentioning.
 
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glbotu

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A0wen said:
Lowering the trackbed is probably not that difficult or costly, however the fact is it was raised because of regular flooding - so surely lowering Ryde tunnel would increase the flood problem?

I suspect the D trains might also have some other gauging issues on the island as well...
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Surely this is not so much of an issue with Diesel trains.

Would there not be scope to run them at low speed through the flooded tunnel. Possible using some sort of treadle instead of a track circuit to deal with the signalling issues that could arise? (This may not be feasible, I'm just throwing ideas out there)
 
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Camden

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jcollins said:
No which I why I read "Getting off the train from London I recall seeing one parked up at the adjacent platform at Liverpool Lime Street running a service to Manchester or Warrington, still in Centro livery!" as not being recent. The exclamation mark suggests you were surprised, why would you be surprised if a recent transfer isn't in the livery of the new operator straight away? Hardly worth mentioning.
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If you go back and read what I said in the context of who I was replying to, rather than your interjection, and you can see why I mentioned it there.

It was you replying to me, making a pointless and irrelevant comment about the last time Centro branded trains were seen, that required a correction regarding your misreading of my clear comment.

If you find my comments "hardly worth mentioning", then why reply.
 
Domh245

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lincolnshire said:
Errrm It can,t be that deep it does,t come very far up the ducks swimming in it.
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1) What ducks?
2) Have a look at this picture and compare where the water level would be (hint: it'd be about level with the bottom of the windows) - I also understand that the track does continue to fall once inside the tunnel!
 
Chris125

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colchesterken said:
There was an interesting in "Rail" this week about the Isle of White railway, and the problems replacing stock
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It's the Isle of Wight, and the D Trains are too tall for the loading gauge - as much if not more of an issue for some of the bridges than the tunnel itself.

Pre-conversion D Stock, without the increase in height or the diesel engines, would be more practical but may still need work to fit - vehicle length would also be an issue at Ryde Esplanade with it's sharply curved platform.

A0wen said:
Lowering the trackbed is probably not that difficult or costly, however the fact is it was raised because of regular flooding - so surely lowering Ryde tunnel would increase the flood problem?
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At most the pumps used to cope with water ingress at high tides might need to work a bit harder - it wasn't an issue when 503s were proposed in the 80s so it shouldn't be now.

Most if not all recent floods have been caused by Monktonmead Brook bursting it's banks - that would happen whatever the height of the track through the tunnel.

Domh245 said:
I also understand that the track does continue to fall once inside the tunnel!
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Not really, no - it's cut and cover.
 
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Clip

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Paul Sidorczuk said:
Only if you cross the palm of Gypsy Adrian Shooter with the requisite amount of silver to pay for this "add-on"...:D
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Paul, you really must stop letting your hatred of Shooter and these things come up every time you post on here - we know, you have told us many many times - so play nicely :lol:
 
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Clip said:
Paul, you really must stop letting your hatred of Shooter and these things come up every time you post on here - we know, you have told us many many times - so play nicely :lol:
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It's just good business to offer upgrades for a fee, ideally more than it costs to implement the upgrade. Why would it be any different for the above proposal. (I personally didn't read any hatred in the post).
 
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WatcherZero

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The flooding tunnels more an issue with 3rd rail power, if they moved to overhead they could excavate out that infill.
 
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