Crewe to Derby line skeleton services.

[Whistler40145]

Instead of a Crewe to Derby service, why not split the service into two services?

These could be Manchester Airport to Stoke utilising the bay platform & a Manchester Piccadilly to Derby service, if paths are available, but I expect the answer to be no.

 

[Qwerty133]

On Thursday and Friday I saw a 156 and a 158 in the depot not being touched considering that there were also short formed services on these days really shows their interest away from London services

 

[MCR247]

On Thursday and Friday I saw a 156 and a 158 in the depot not being touched considering that there were also short formed services on these days really shows their interest away from London services

Because of course it is all that simple :roll:

 

[tbtc]

On a Saturday I doubt if EMT has a DMU shortage so on this day at least longer trains would seem to be easily possible if EMT wanted to. The Liverpool - Nottingham trains don't seem to be 4 cars on Saturdays and there are clearly spare Meridians & HSTs they could use to allow stock redeployment if they had the desire to do so. Clearly they don't.

...but then the maintenance for HST/ Meridians is probably scheduled for the weekend - the fact that you pass some idle at Derby (etc) at those times doesn't mean they could necessarily use them every day

 

[MCR247]

Oh no but a train sat in a depot is obviously there because the TOC can't be bothered to put it into service :roll: Everybody knows that :roll:

 

[Qwerty133]

Oh no but a train sat in a depot is obviously there because the TOC can't be bothered to put it into service :roll: Everybody knows that :roll:

In this case it properly does. As this has happened before as when the 153 broke down they brought out the 158

 

[Coolguy22468]

I think I read somewhere that Network Rail mentioned in its RUS that this services should be operated with a 2 coach train minimum but I think EMT has ignored that suggestion.

 

[ainsworth74]

On Thursday and Friday I saw a 156 and a 158 in the depot not being touched considering that there were also short formed services on these days really shows their interest away from London services

In this case it properly does.

It does? Might I ask how long you observed these trains sitting unattended? Was it matter of moments as your train went past or was it the course of several hours?

I think I read somewhere that Network Rail mentioned in its RUS that this services should be operated with a 2 coach train minimum but I think EMT has ignored that suggestion.

With what rolling stock do you suggest EMT provide a two car service? It suspect it's less a case of ignoring the suggestion and more that they isn't all that much they can do about it at the present time.

 

[Qwerty133]

It does? Might I ask how long you observed these trains sitting unattended? Was it matter of moments as your train went past or was it the course of several hours?



With what rolling stock do you suggest EMT provide a two car service? It suspect it's less a case of ignoring the suggestion and more that they isn't all that much they can do about it at the present time.

Saw at 8:30 and hadn't been moved from place in middle of sidings by 16:30

 

[ainsworth74]

Saw at 8:30 and hadn't been moved from place in middle of sidings by 16:30

It hadn't moved an inch? Did you go and measure how far it was form the end of the siding to check? Forgive me for being facetious but how on earth can you know that during the eight hours between your observations that the train hadn't been taken into a shed and put back or had other work done to it in place or is broken awaiting repairs and the part to do it hadn't been acquired yet?

 

[MCR247]

Saw at 8:30 and hadn't been moved from place in middle of sidings by 16:30

Oh and who says this 158 isn't awaiting a part? What can be done then? Maybe this was even on spare in case a 158 failed on Liverpool - Norwich which to me makes sense as much as people on the Crewe line may not

 

[Qwerty133]

Oh and who says this 158 isn't awaiting a part? What can be done then? Maybe this was even on spare in case a 158 failed on Liverpool - Norwich which to me makes sense as much as people on the Crewe line may not

Yes but instead of splitting the Matlock service (meant to be formed of 2x153) to replace the broken 153 the spare 158 could have been used. And why would a spare for Liverpool to Norwich be at derby depot

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes but instead of splitting the Matlock service (meant to be formed of 2x153) to replace the broken 153 the spare 158 could have been used.

How do you know it was spare?

 

[John55]

...but then the maintenance for HST/ Meridians is probably scheduled for the weekend - the fact that you pass some idle at Derby (etc) at those times doesn't mean they could necessarily use them every day

It's the number sat idle at Cricklewood and Derby on a Friday afternoon (which is when I normally use EMT) leads me to believe they are not as intensively utilised as many fleets.

 

[MCR247]

Yes but instead of splitting the Matlock service (meant to be formed of 2x153) to replace the broken 153 the spare 158 could have been used. And why would a spare for Liverpool to Norwich be at derby depot

A 158 doesn't have any reason to be there unless its for some sort of maintenance

 

[Bevan Price]

Yes but instead of splitting the Matlock service (meant to be formed of 2x153) to replace the broken 153 the spare 158 could have been used. And why would a spare for Liverpool to Norwich be at derby depot

On two Saturday trips from Derby to Matlock this year, only single 153's have been used**, and overcrowding was even worse than I have encountered on the Crewe - Derby service (with the exception of Uttoxeter race days, and the horrendous overcrowding on the Toton Open Day, circa 1999).

(** - The Nottingham - Matlock service seems to need 3 units; on each trip, two were single 153's, with the third unit being a 156)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I love how some people think that TOCs deliberately put on trains without enough capacity. Do you genuinely think that if that 158 was in good working order and capable of a day's running, wasn't due maintenance etc, that it would still be sat in the depot? Somehow I think not. You don't leave much needed stock in depots OOU for nothing...

EDIT - This wasn't directed at Bevan Price BTW, we typed our answers at the same time!

 

[Qwerty133]

I love how some people think that TOCs deliberately put on trains without enough capacity. Do you genuinely think that if that 158 was in good working order and capable of a day's running, wasn't due maintenance etc, that it would still be sat in the depot? Somehow I think not. You don't leave much needed stock in depots OOU for nothing...

EDIT - This wasn't directed at Bevan Price BTW, we typed our answers at the same time!

They've done it before and will properly do it again ( the guard admitted it)

 

[Tomnick]

It's the number sat idle at Cricklewood and Derby on a Friday afternoon (which is when I normally use EMT) leads me to believe they are not as intensively utilised as many fleets.

In the case of those at Cricklewood, I'm guessing this was early- to mid-afternoon and you've passed the sets that sit there ready for the evening peak services back north (and therefore not really sitting idle).

The 158 previously observed at Etches Park could well have been sitting there waiting to go in for an exam or some sort of planned maintenance - the fact that it was then brought out to replace a failed unit doesn't mean that's not the case, as it's one thing to disrupt the maintenance regime as a one-off to keep the service moving, but quite another to do it regularly just to strengthen other services.

 

[MCR247]

They've done it before and will properly do it again ( the guard admitted it)

Doesn't really mean much. For all you know the guard only knew as much as you

 

[tbtc]

It's the number sat idle at Cricklewood and Derby on a Friday afternoon (which is when I normally use EMT) leads me to believe they are not as intensively utilised as many fleets.

I think that (if EMT have "spare" trains) EMT have more spare capacity in the longer distance fleet than the "local" fleet - hence the two coach 158s on Liverpool services for a long time (only recently rectified) - it's not like the Crewe service is the only "local" one getting a raw deal

 

[MidnightFlyer]

They've done it before and will properly do it again ( the guard admitted it)

Doesn't really mean much. For all you know the guard only knew as much as you

Indeed MCR247, the only people who will know for sure why it's in there are the depot staff, planning and maintenance teams and associated managers, not customer-facing staff like guards and platform staff.

 

[Qwerty133]

Another thing that shows their not bothered is that they send a 158 to SWT or FGW during the Olympics and covered for it by short forming their own services

 

[tbtc]

Another thing that shows their not bothered is that they send a 158 to SWT or FGW during the Olympics and covered for it by short forming their own services

Same happened with most bus companies in the UK - it's not a vendetta

 

[Qwerty133]

Same happened with most bus companies in the UK - it's not a vendetta

So these bus company's covered double deckers with solos did they

 

[Whistler40145]

IMHO Stoke to Derby should be electrified, then operate a Manchester Airport or Liverpool to Derby service via Stoke & Uttoxeter.

 

[Bevan Price]

I love how some people think that TOCs deliberately put on trains without enough capacity. Do you genuinely think that if that 158 was in good working order and capable of a day's running, wasn't due maintenance etc, that it would still be sat in the depot? Somehow I think not. You don't leave much needed stock in depots OOU for nothing...

EDIT - This wasn't directed at Bevan Price BTW, we typed our answers at the same time!

I think that most of recognise that lack of sufficient stock can be attributed to DfT and its masters in the treasury. Perhaps if more of them got off their backsides in London offices, and travelled around the country by rail, they might eventually see how bad the situation is in some areas.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm still unclear how Qwerty133 determined that the 158 they saw was available to cover for the short forming described. Perhaps they can elaborate how they know that the 158 was spare and not, for example, undergoing maintenance?

 

[Tomnick]

From previous posts, it seems that the 158 in question was observed to have been brought off shed to either recover a failed unit or work part of its diagram. I too would love to know how Qwerty133 knew that it was spare and hadn't instead been taken away from planned maintenance (or indeed was only spare for a short period, before being required later in the afternoon).

 

[causton]

So these bus company's covered double deckers with solos did they

Yes, yes they did!