You can complain to XC all that you want. Unless or until they are funded to have sufficient rolling stock to properly operate the services which they are contracted to then very little will change. Harsh reality.
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Cross Country treating customers as sardines
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fairlie
Member
- Joined
- 18 Mar 2010
- Messages
- 124
I have no interest in complaining for the sake of complaining: what I want is to be able to catch the train in a comfortable and safe manner. Obviously they're not going to write back and say 'Thank you for your letter fairlie, we've just ordered loads more trains on next day delivery'. However, being able to evidence passenger experience and complaints can be grist to their mill in advocating for more stock so the few moments it takes me to write seems worth doing.
Now that, sir, is an eminently sensible approach. Well worth doing (and perhaps copying in your MP) as long as you don't, as so many folk complaining seem to, expect immediate results.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
is the correct answer! All you will get back is a nice fob off.
Me too, but they don’t care.
It’s
Yep. Or worse you get sold the lie that they are getting more carriages in the form of Voyagers from Avanti (which will only replace the HSTs anyway).
The reality is that CrossCountry journeys (which I make several times a week to various destinations) are an endurance, and they don’t have to be judging by what other TOCs are capable of.
It’s something that the public, and Cross Country, are aware of.
I wouldn’t expect any changes before 2027 though…
It’s bonkers that with rolling stock such as the TPE Mk5As standing idle there are still severely overcrowded trains on these long distance routes.
Let’s hope GBR can do better when the time comes.
www.bbc.co.uk
www.bbc.co.uk
I wouldn’t expect any changes before 2027 though…
It’s bonkers that with rolling stock such as the TPE Mk5As standing idle there are still severely overcrowded trains on these long distance routes.
Let’s hope GBR can do better when the time comes.
Residents question rail manager on CrossCountry trains overcrowding - BBC News
Commuters raised concerns with a senior CrossCountry manager at the West Oxford Community Centre.
www.bbc.co.uk
CrossCountry: Government raises 'serious concerns' about rail operator
In a scathing letter to the rail operator's interim heads, Louise Haigh puts the company on notice.
www.bbc.co.uk
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I simply avoid XC where ever and whenever I can - journeys are taken only when there is no other choice
BazingaTribe
Member
I'm sorry to be part of the problem by being the person using XC trains as a commuter line between Basingstoke and Reading! I find them comfortable if you get a seat but the XX52 Friday afternoon services were the worst for a long time. A lot of people do use the service at that time to go from Reading to Basingstoke, but I can understand the concerns of those who are travelling a longer way and have to put up with us commuters. And the long distance GWR services are much nicer as well.
So I think the tinned fish metaphors are pretty apt. I tend to avoid the service if the service south from Reading is sat at platform 3 rather than being elsewhere in the station. If they're at platform 3 that's the shorter set and I'll only get it if I really, really want to be home a bit quicker.
So I think the tinned fish metaphors are pretty apt. I tend to avoid the service if the service south from Reading is sat at platform 3 rather than being elsewhere in the station. If they're at platform 3 that's the shorter set and I'll only get it if I really, really want to be home a bit quicker.
ChrisC
Established Member
Exactly the same with me. When I am planning a few days away where I go these days is somewhere where I don’t have to rely on XC. In the final couple of years of XC having HSTs I had a few holidays in Devon and Cornwall. It‘s not somewhere I would now want to go travelling all the way from Derby on an overcrowded Voyager.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Better ask the DfT nicely to fund the various clearance tests to ensure the Mk5 coaches fit on the XC routes, the funding to train all the staff up so they can operate the stock + loco. The likelihood of those things happening is low.It’s something that the public, and Cross Country, are aware of.
I wouldn’t expect any changes before 2027 though…
It’s bonkers that with rolling stock such as the TPE Mk5As standing idle there are still severely overcrowded trains on these long distance routes.
Let’s hope GBR can do better when the time comes.
Residents question rail manager on CrossCountry trains overcrowding - BBC News
Commuters raised concerns with a senior CrossCountry manager at the West Oxford Community Centre.
CrossCountry: Government raises 'serious concerns' about rail operator
In a scathing letter to the rail operator's interim heads, Louise Haigh puts the company on notice.
And also ask DRS nicely if they will be willing to enter into another agreement to lease the 68s which they are already using on various freight work.
Off course, XC could solve overcrowding on the Reading - Banbury corridor by not serving Oxford
. The current timetable doesn't help when a XC departs Reading a few minutes in front of a GWR for Oxford, so any customers at Reading wanting Oxford will squeeze onto the voyager as it's the first train init. Likewise at Basingstoke where the Manchester train generally departs around XX:47 which soaks up a lot of the Reading passengers whom would otherwise use the XX:52 GWR service.
BazingaTribe
Member
Better ask the DfT nicely to fund the various clearance tests to ensure the Mk5 coaches fit on the XC routes, the funding to train all the staff up so they can operate the stock + loco. The likelihood of those things happening is low.
And also ask DRS nicely if they will be willing to enter into another agreement to lease the 68s which they are already using on various freight work.
Off course, XC could solve overcrowding on the Reading - Banbury corridor by not serving Oxford
The current timetable doesn't help when a XC departs Reading a few minutes in front of a GWR for Oxford, so any customers at Reading wanting Oxford will squeeze onto the voyager as it's the first train init. Likewise at Basingstoke where the Manchester train generally departs around XX:47 which soaks up a lot of the Reading passengers whom would otherwise use the XX:52 GWR service.
The GWR service stops at in-between stations, and is generally speaking a bit more reliable than the Manchester train (and more frequent in the mornings -- although I did use to travel on the 9.20-ish GWR service because I'd only get off-peak tickets. For a while there actually wasn't a fast train at 9.49 before the 9.53 GWR.
Oxford would be a pretty major destination to skip as well. Coming from south of Reading it is useful to have the direct service. (And personally speaking I have a cousin there and go up regularly so you can prise the direct service from Basingstoke from my cold, dead hands...)
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DarloRich
Veteran Member
The HST should not have been removed until such time as a replacement train of the same length was available. XC should, in my opinion, be using some form of 800 on the long distance NE/SW runs and the fact they are not is bonkers frankly - these are to all intents and purposes British built trains that are now in common usage.
However, we all know the DfT and Treasury wouldn't (and perhaps now CANT) pony up so here we are..........................................
(and they could do a follow on order for GC and sort them out once and for all!)
GC? Why the hell should the taxpayer buy them new rolling stock?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
aren't they in the same group as XC? I meant the parent company could pay for some new trains for them at the same time.
Trainbike46
Established Member
Grand Central is an Arriva-owned Open-Access Operator
XC is, for now, also operated by Arriva
However, any XC stock decision will be taken by government, whereas a Grand Central stock decision would be taken by GC or arriva.
In any case, there is already talk about GC ordering new bimodes if they get an extended track access application. The only real relevance for this thread is that it's separate from anything happening at XC.
I agree however, that in the longer term, XC should move to bimodes, whether that is cascaded from GWR/LNER/whoever else, or newly ordered. In the shorter term, XC should take on the remaining ex-avanti 221s, both the 12 they're already getting and the 6/8 currently not spoken for.
XC is, for now, also operated by Arriva
However, any XC stock decision will be taken by government, whereas a Grand Central stock decision would be taken by GC or arriva.
In any case, there is already talk about GC ordering new bimodes if they get an extended track access application. The only real relevance for this thread is that it's separate from anything happening at XC.
I agree however, that in the longer term, XC should move to bimodes, whether that is cascaded from GWR/LNER/whoever else, or newly ordered. In the shorter term, XC should take on the remaining ex-avanti 221s, both the 12 they're already getting and the 6/8 currently not spoken for.
I’d not seen this before now- it’s old (March 2024).
Hyperbolic turd-polishing of the first order!
www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk
Hyperbolic turd-polishing of the first order!
Bigger fleet, more seats: CrossCountry reveals plans to transform customer experience by May 2025 | CrossCountry
Train operator announces massive expansion to long-distance fleet, transforming journeys with around 25% more seats available than today.
www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk
LittleRedTrain
Member
You'd have to provide something for the Banbury-Oxford flow too, rather than the current 2-car 'every couple of hours if we can be bothered' GWR stopping service.
Oxford is the nearest big shopping/leisure/commuting destination to Banbury, plus home to the county's main hospital, if you want to relieve crowding on XC (and the A34) it needs at least a proper half-hourly local service as an alternative, ideally one that runs past pub/theatre closing time at weekends.
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BazingaTribe
Member
Yeah, and all those students as well. That's probably a lot of traffic up and down the various lines into Oxford and worth having multiple choices for services to different parts of the country.
Extend the Paddington – Oxford terminator to Banbury, and I think Chiltern wanted to run an Oxford – Birmingham Moor Street service.
Leeds – Sheffield needs sorting as well (4 direct Northern tph, but with two of them taking a quarter of an hour longer than the others and the Nottingham services being overtaken by XC in both directions).
Would it be worth lengthening Northern's Stoke-on-Trent services? I don't know if the intermediate stations apart from Macclesfield and Stockport would justify it alone, but with the current timetable services between Stoke and Manchester don't overtake each other, so that would be a way of providing a bit more capacity north of Stoke-on-Trent without having to add anything to CrossCountry.
Stoke to Macclesfield, Stockport and Manchester is already served by Avanti as well as XC and Northern. I’ve never really considers the Northern as an option going from Stoke to Manchester, being a stopper it takes over 15 minutes longer which on such a short journey is nearly 50% time penalty. Historically it was operated by stock with 2+3 seating so always felt more cramped than XC or avanti.
Just that really. And it’s not unusual.
Train crew trying to reduce overcrowding by telling passengers that the train is no longer stopping at International or Coventry.
Cue mass scrum as people with multiple suitcases try to get off.
Still too many people for the service.
Why oh why has this service been allowed to operate with only four or (as in this case) five coaches?
People say there’s no money for new or different rolling stock. It’s been this way for years and years.
The demand is clearly there.
Why should we have to out up with this ludicrous standard of service on some of the longest services in the UK?
I wonder if the staff ever tell their managers about this sort of thing?
What this means is:
1. Revenue protection checks can’t be carried out;
2. The train has been delayed;
3. The trolly can’t get through;
4. Elderly people with reserved seats can’t get to them and are having to stand.
Utter disgrace. Might be acceptable if it was occasional, but this isn’t- it’s regular.
Train crew trying to reduce overcrowding by telling passengers that the train is no longer stopping at International or Coventry.
Cue mass scrum as people with multiple suitcases try to get off.
Still too many people for the service.
Why oh why has this service been allowed to operate with only four or (as in this case) five coaches?
People say there’s no money for new or different rolling stock. It’s been this way for years and years.
The demand is clearly there.
Why should we have to out up with this ludicrous standard of service on some of the longest services in the UK?
I wonder if the staff ever tell their managers about this sort of thing?
What this means is:
1. Revenue protection checks can’t be carried out;
2. The train has been delayed;
3. The trolly can’t get through;
4. Elderly people with reserved seats can’t get to them and are having to stand.
Utter disgrace. Might be acceptable if it was occasional, but this isn’t- it’s regular.
Trainman40083
Established Member
Part of the problem maybe the frequency of the service. Pre COVID, I recall the service between Birmingham and Reading was generally every 30 minutes, and I don't recall overcrowding like we are today... If the train is that busy, then other alternatives are available to both Birmingham International and Coventry if they join at New Street (maybe stop advertising the stops). I guess, nothing will change until XC get their extra 12 units into service (that probably after full refurbishment). .
Discuss223
Member
Hopefully when the Reading-Newcastle services are fully restored, the Thames Valley commuter corridor will have an easing of the crowding problems.
james_the_xv
Member
Not sure how easy it is, but not selling XC advance tickets between Coventry, International, New Street, and maybe Wolves? would help. A lot of people between these locations buy an off peak and just get the next service though, you could also mark all off peaks/anytimes as 'WMT & Avanti Only) between these stations
Even then, XCs capacity problems run far deeper...
I recall that crush-loading was still a problem before Covid.
Why is it so difficult to get extra trains when others are or will soon be standing idle eg Nova 3s and more pertinently, 222s which are a longer and better laid-out version of the Voyager?
Train manager now acknowledging over the tannoy at Coventry that people are being left behind on the platform as frantic passengers scurry along looking for a door that they can board at.
Why is it so difficult to get extra trains when others are or will soon be standing idle eg Nova 3s and more pertinently, 222s which are a longer and better laid-out version of the Voyager?
Train manager now acknowledging over the tannoy at Coventry that people are being left behind on the platform as frantic passengers scurry along looking for a door that they can board at.
dk1
Veteran Member
That makes sense.
Trainman40083
Established Member
Well, probably because the DfT dictate what trains can run and where. Nova 3s I thought were destined for Chiltern to replace Mk3s. Cannot see the 222s being released in next 8 months, maybe longer. But even then, they can't work in multiple with a 220/221. Okay, maybe there is potential for double sets, but that means more crew, plus the set maybe too long for certain stations.
Yep.
There’s always a reason why “it can’t be done”.
DfT blame the TOC…
TOC blame the DfT…
Repeat ad nauseum…