CrossCountry (XC) HST modifications including power doors

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Unclepete, 17 Apr 2018.

  1. _toommm_

    _toommm_ Established Member

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    Looks a little bit weird with the silver metal below the door, but apart from that, they do look very smart. Just does to show what a livery can do to a train. The FGW purple livery looks very antiquated IMO.
     
  2. DanNCL

    DanNCL Member

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    Reported on HST gen that the sliding door set may indeed enter service on the 17th September, but on 1V52 07:00 Edinburgh - Exeter St Davids, which makes more sense as that run is booked HST anyway.
     
  3. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    IF it enters service on Monday that will be the one it's on.
     
  4. oliverpckehoe

    oliverpckehoe Member

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    Any news on when a service down to Plymouth/Cornwall will be booked for a sliding door set? Just curious as I normally see a HST stationed at Plymouth on my way home (I assume it's running the 16:25).
     
  5. grumpyoldman01

    grumpyoldman01 Member

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    Does anyone know why this particular option for fitting powered doors was adopted?

    Reference is made elsewherre in this forum to the Mk 2e TSO 5809 which was modified by ABB; initially, only the inside was modified, and the work was undertaken in the early 1990s (pre-privatisation of BR) and was at the time a speculative project partially as input (by ABB) to the Mk 2f/Mk 3 refurbishment programme being developed at that time. Older members of this forum will probably remember the HST with at seat audio, etc, running about to measure passenger reactions to some ideas - wasn't it on the 'Master Cutler' for a time?

    At a later date, ABB worked with Tebel (now part of IFE) to produce a framed power operated plug door for replacing the slam doors on Mk 2s and Mk 3s; this is as fitted to 5809.

    The concept was very simple; the outer frame dimensions were the same as the curved door of the later Mk 2s and Mk 3s, so old door out, new framed door in - job done! Obviously, this is an oversimplification, but the logic behind the design was to minimise the structural work necessary to replace manual doors (on Mk 2fs/Mk 3s) with power operated ones.

    Fitting sliding pocket doors to Mk 3s requires major work at vehicle corners; by contrast, the ABB design was "simple". So does anyone know why something like the ABB concept was not adopted by Wabtec for fitting power operated doors to Mk 3s, please?
     
  6. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Because (as explained in the GW and Scotrail threads) the experience of fitting power doors to the WSMR/Chiltern mark 3s was that in reality every single door had to be made to measure individually. This approach has allowed "mass production" of the doors and other components.
     
  7. grumpyoldman01

    grumpyoldman01 Member

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    I appreciate the problems with door sizes; however, the ABB design tried to overcome this "weakness" in Mk 3 vehicles.

    It is, of course, some 30 years since ABB modified the Mk 2e, but as I remember it being described to me (on site at Litchurch Lane by ABB staff) the idea of the framed door was to overcome this door size problem; the framed door was supplied as a complete unit manufactured by Tebel, and it was dimensioned so that it fitted in the existing door pocket. I guess it was therefore slightly smaller than the nominal Mk3 door size, and any gaps between the door's frame and the existing door aperture would have been filled as appropriate. Also, I THINK the passenger door operating buttons were part of the frame, and the existing door release controls were to be used for permitting them to be opened; I can't remember how they were to be closed by the train crew.

    I'm not familiar with the detail of the actual procedure used to fit powered doors to Chiltern's Mk 3s, but from what I have read I didn't think they were supplied to Wabtec as complete framed, factory produced, units, and a fair amount of work was required to each door opening to accomodate powered sliding plug doors; if this understanding is wrong, I'm sure someone will be able to explain how the work was done (or direct me to somewhere where it is explained).
     
  8. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    ah, the issue with sticking a unit like that into the existing hole would be the resulting door aperture would be too narrow for modern accessibility requirements- not even just for wheelchairs, in general too.
     
  9. grumpyoldman01

    grumpyoldman01 Member

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    That makes sense - thanks for that.
     
  10. greyman42

    greyman42 On Moderation

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    Does anyone know what the problem is with the modified set?
     
  11. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    There was a thread for diagrams and allocation information, but the introduction of the train has been delayed. Therefore once the information is confirmed someone can make a thread at that point.
     
    Last edited: 27 Sep 2018
  12. NoOnesFool

    NoOnesFool Member

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    Such a shame that the introduction has been delayed.
     
  13. NoOnesFool

    NoOnesFool Member

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    There is a thread in the Allocations section that can give daily fleet numbers.
    Hi, this project is being undertaken to meet accessibility legislation for passengers with reduced mobility (PRM).
     
  14. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    I think the question was about the reason for the specific design chosen, ie as compared to the Chiltern solution, as was explained in post #96.
     
  15. grumpyoldman01

    grumpyoldman01 Member

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    Yep - but really why sliding pocket rather than the ABB Mk 2e framed plug, and this was answered by 98; surprised by that answer though, as by observation of the photos published herein thus far and from memory, I didn't think the door aperture on the Mk 2e would have been any narrower than Wabtec has achieved with the HST conversions.
     
  16. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    XC03 is allocated to work 1V50 and 1E63 today. Meaning it's likely to drop onto 1V44/1S51 tomorrow subject to not breaking.
     
  17. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

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    Was today it's first day in public service? Can't wait for some pics.
     
  18. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    yes..
     
  19. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

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    Went by without much fanfare it seems 8-)
     
  20. SC43090

    SC43090 Member

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    After travelling on 1525 Plymouth Leeds earlier this evening, each coach in XC03 set as lost a few seats.... Here are the new seats numbers for each coach.....

    43304

    41193 as got 39 seats, also 1 X Disabled Toilet also wheelchair space.... Fact Panel says 39 seats

    45003 as got 30 first class / also 8 standard class seats, also 1 X toilet Fact Panel says 30 / 8

    42370 as got 80 seats, also 1 X toilet Fact Panel says 80

    42378 as got 80 seats, also 1 X toilet Fact Panel says 80

    42036 as got 80 seats, also 1 X toilet Fact Panel says 80

    42376 as got 62 seats, also 1 X Disabled toilet, also wheelchair spaces Fact Panel says 62 seats

    44052 as got 67 seats, NO TOILET....

    43357

    SC43090
     
    Last edited: 16 Oct 2018
  21. Mitchell Hurd

    Mitchell Hurd Member

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    Just calculated that - 446. Might only be 11 less seats (55 in total eventually on each set) but I remember one Sunday a little while ago this year someone catching the 12:11 from Leeds to Bristol and reporting no seats. Hard to believe this was an HST but I think it was.

    What makes me laugh is XC don't want to lose seats. Yet by removing 11 in each set is (unless someone can correct me) XC being a bit hypocritical.

    If there's a good reason behind the reduction then fine but that's odd.I

    Looks like they'll have to update their online HST seating layout.
     
  22. NoOnesFool

    NoOnesFool Member

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    Probably extra space for wheelchair areas and priority seating.
     
  23. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    It's to fit the pockets for the doors.
     
  24. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    Running shortformed as 2+6 since yesterday after one of the Trailer Standards developed a door fault. Something that I suspect will be a recurring issue until there is more than one set (plus one spare vehicle) available for use.
     
  25. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    The fault was more to do with the battery which caused faults. It's also running round with all 4 doors in coach F LOOU.
     
  26. Mitchell Hurd

    Mitchell Hurd Member

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    Hopefully teething troubles!

    I wonder what the acceleration is like, with a 6-coach HST, against a 4 and 5-car Voyager.
     
  27. XCTurbostar

    XCTurbostar Member

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    43357 + 43304 with slidings doors just left New Street on 1S52. Didn’t check the coaches/doors.
     
  28. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    1S51...
     
  29. greyman42

    greyman42 On Moderation

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    I was on it on Wednesday between York and Birmingham and there was a technician from Wabtec walking up and down the train with a member of staff.
     
  30. 158820

    158820 Member

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    XC01 ran from Craigintinny to Doncaster Wabtec Works departed at 05.29 today as 5Z43
     

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