CrossCountry - you can now reserve your seat just TEN MINUTES BEFORE TRAVEL by text!

[Flying Snail]

Why don't CrossCountry simply install some sort of button on these "reservable" seats? Every press of the button signifies a station - so, for example, if you are travelling from Birmingham to Derby and the train stops at Tamworth and Burton-on-Trent, you press the button three times (Tamworth, Burton-on-Trent and Derby) to prevent the seat from being reserved between those stations.

That seems like a fairly good solution in my opinion.
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And how about an electric shock system too that gives unreserved passengers a jolt when someone text reserves their seat, that'll get them moved. :roll:

This is simply retarded, there is no work around it is an incredibly bad idea and I pity the XC on-board staff who will have to deal with the inevitable agro caused.

Imagine this scenario:

I board a rammed XC from Birmingham, no seats so I wedge in beside the mega-crapper. Through the partition doors I see some smug git with a seat and he is eyeballing me. Out comes the mobile, next station Tamworth in 15 mns, perfect. Seat C4 reserved. Train gets to Tamworth so I go in and demand he vacate MY seat. Arguement ensues and after 10 mns and the intervention of the TM I win and claim my prize. Now this guy has found out what happened courtesy of the TM so he whips out his phone and reserves a seat a few rows down currently occupied by an old dear from the next station up the line and the cycle starts again.

Absolute genius, I assume XC are already in discussions with TV production companies to sell the rights to broadcast the results. "Train Journeys from HELL!!!" "When commuters go BAD!!!" etc.

 

[route:oxford]

So that's what it meant!

When I boarded at Oxford on Wednesday, the screen was showing...

"This seat may be reserved between Reading & Newcastle"

It sounds like the passenger made a tentative booking, but hadn't turned up... Which is why I sat there.

"May" isn't the best word to use here either...

It can be interpreted as I as a "not sure if might turn up", as I read it...

Rather than the more correct, "you or another potential passenger can book this seat if you or they want to - so you'd better be ready to shift if they happen to do it whilst travelling and you haven't already done so - so sit here at your own risk"

 

[Minilad]

Playing devils advocate here but don't forget if you do get turfed out of a seat when you purchase a ticket you are not buying a seat just transport from A to B.
So in fact you can't claim what is "rightfully yours" as it's not.
On the other hand, yes, it is a most ridiculous system that is open to all manner of abuse and I can envisage a whole load of problems

 

[SS4]

Where is it implied that they'll start charging for it?

If they started charging 25p per reservation I'd have no objection - 25p is more than reasonable to reserve a seat at the last minute (after all, there must be some cost to implement the system) and it would also stop people from vandalizing the system by making multiple reservations.

From the link at the end of the OP:

This trial is taking place on CrossCountry services across the majority of our network, in both Standard and First Class. Reservations are subject to availability and free of charge during the initial trial.

Especially the bold bit. I'd call this a public beta and so, for anyone commenting, let XC know what you think - especially if you try it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The reservation may be free of charge, but is the text message number a premium one that costs £1 to send a text to by any chance...??

 

[Crossover]

I think it is one of those things that in theory sounds like a great idea but in practice is utterly dreadful! Explains why there is the "This seat may be reserved" for the entire duration of the journey though. I think the majority of bad points have been covered already. The fact that the reservations don't seem to function half the time or won't download data is probably a large issue to start with though.

Why don't CrossCountry simply install some sort of button on these "reservable" seats? Every press of the button signifies a station - so, for example, if you are travelling from Birmingham to Derby and the train stops at Tamworth and Burton-on-Trent, you press the button three times (Tamworth, Burton-on-Trent and Derby) to prevent the seat from being reserved between those stations.

That seems like a fairly good solution in my opinion.

Primarily cost - would cost an absolute fortune
Secondary - complexity

At the moment I suspect all seat reservations would be held in a central database and are then fed down as a file to the train via GSM (or similar)
That means you have one data flow of traffic essentially

Adding in such a system (buttons or otherwise) suddenly means you have to upload data to the database to tell it which seats are reserved and where. You then have two feeds of information coming into the database and have to upload as well as download data. Essentially having an upload of data could mean that by the time the data has uploaded to say x seat is reserved, that seat has since been reserved....who wins??? So from a techie point of view, it's less than desireable.

Imagine this scenario:

I board a rammed XC from Birmingham, no seats so I wedge in beside the mega-crapper. Through the partition doors I see some smug git with a seat and he is eyeballing me. Out comes the mobile, next station Tamworth in 15 mns, perfect. Seat C4 reserved. Train gets to Tamworth so I go in and demand he vacate MY seat. Arguement ensues and after 10 mns and the intervention of the TM I win and claim my prize. Now this guy has found out what happened courtesy of the TM so he whips out his phone and reserves a seat a few rows down currently occupied by an old dear from the next station up the line and the cycle starts again.

Absolute genius, I assume XC are already in discussions with TV production companies to sell the rights to broadcast the results. "Train Journeys from HELL!!!" "When commuters go BAD!!!" etc.

This thought of reserving a seat when you are on the train, but from the next stop had crossed my mind as well. Well and truly open to abuse!
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The reservation may be free of charge, but is the text message number a premium one that costs £1 to send a text to by any chance...??

Reading the T&C's, I believe they don't charge for the service but that your service operator may charge - i.e. the cost of a text as far as I can tell, so in some inclusive packages, possibly nothing

 

[43167]

What a rubbish idea. reservations should close at 6pm the day before end of. I dont want to be turffed out of a seat that was unreserved when I joined. XC are risking hi complaints about this.

 

[telstarbox]

If XC had said "you can reserve seats up to 10 mins before the train leaves the first station" it would be fine as long as the TM could get the paper labels out in time for HSTs. As it is it's going to cause arguments and stress on services which have more than their fair share of shortcomings as it is - but let's not go there.

On a related note, why don't some passengers read the reservation labels properly rather than assuming that it's reserved end-to-end? On TPE services starting from Manchester Airport there are usually plenty of empty "reserved" seats when the train reaches Piccadilly (maybe because airline pax have booked advances but not got through the airport in time). Yet passengers will stand rather than checking where the seat is actually reserved from and to!

 

[wintonian]

If XC had said "you can reserve seats up to 10 mins before the train leaves the first station" it would be fine as long as the TM could get the paper labels out in time for HSTs. As it is it's going to cause arguments and stress on services which have more than their fair share of shortcomings as it is - but let's not go there.

On a related note, why don't some passengers read the reservation labels properly rather than assuming that it's reserved end-to-end? On TPE services starting from Manchester Airport there are usually plenty of empty "reserved" seats when the train reaches Piccadilly (maybe because airline pax have booked advances but not got through the airport in time). Yet passengers will stand rather than checking where the seat is actually reserved from and to!

I totally agree with your first point.

One of the issues I can see that for example you intend to travel from Stafford to Birmingham New Street you can't just book your seat between those two stations. With this new ridicules system you would have to book from Stafford to Bournemouth/ Reading or wherever the train terminates , with the seat not being available for reservations for the rest of the journey, so passengers from Birmingham International on a wedged train for example would not be able to reserve a vacant seat as it is still reserved for someone who is no longer on the train.

 

[Blindtraveler]

kind a wonder if DFT are blinder than I am givmdn the number of moans etc with XC and there seaming inabilitty to act.

 

[Squaddie]

What a rubbish idea. reservations should close at 6pm the day before end of.

Why 6pm the day before? There's no reason why reservations should not continue to be made right up until the time the train has been prepared and is ready for boarding. But allowing reservations while the train is en route is a crazy idea.

Unless, that is, a system similar to the Japanese one is introduced. Japanese trains have "Reserved" carriages, in which every seat may be reserved at any time, and "Unreserved" carriages, in which no seat is ever reserved. A seat reservation costs the equivalent of a few pounds, and no-one without a seat reservation may sit in a reserved carriage even if the carriage is empty and the rest of the train is packed. This allows seats to be reserved even while the train is en route, because the computer system knows exactly which seats are occupied at any time.

 

[island]

I think it's done on ticket stock by Avantix.

Doubtful; Avantix Mobile machines aren't connected to any network.

 

[Crossover]

Had a rethink on this and actually, I don't believe the 10 minute reservations will actually be downloaded to the train at all and will remain as showing as could be reserved for the whole journey.

Was talking to one of my friends about this the other day and one thing I hadn't thought of until they mentioned it was that having it showing "this seat may be reserved from Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly" could get confusing if it is just after, say, New Street. Maybe it would be better to update the initial point at each stop on the calling pattern?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Back to the reserving a seat while on the train thing. If it is full and standing, is it worth taking a chance that you can get a seat and making a reservation from the next stop to your destination? Then make the guard kick somebody out of "your" seat. You could do it on a less than full train to highlight an obvious flaw in the system.

 

[Pumbaa]

Doubtful; Avantix Mobile machines aren't connected to any network.

TM gets a request for a seat to be reserved, they respond to that request on their mobile/PDA whatever "yes, i'll reserve THIS seat" or "no seat available". The TM then prints a seat reservation for that seat on Advantix and sticks it in the back of the seat. The passenger has an electronic confirmation of reservation.

I think that's how it's done, open to correction from Ferret...

 

[leedstraindude]

Doubtful; Avantix Mobile machines aren't connected to any network.

Really check your facts mate.
Erm XC TM's machines are all connected to a Thyron which is in turn connected to XC's reservation database, has been for some time now. Its the same system the RSM's use for sending there stock orders in.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Back to the reserving a seat while on the train thing. If it is full and standing, is it worth taking a chance that you can get a seat and making a reservation from the next stop to your destination? Then make the guard kick somebody out of "your" seat. You could do it on a less than full train to highlight an obvious flaw in the system.

As someone who works on these trains every day I cant see many guards enforcing this at all. They will hide as usual leaving the customers to argue it out, and inevitably end up writing in to customer support to deal with. Its a **** poor idea which should have never made it off the drawing board, a bit like like the XC shops being removed.

 

[Mike395]

Really check your facts mate.
Erm XC TM's machines are all connected to a Thyron which is in turn connected to XC's reservation database, has been for some time now. Its the same system the RSM's use for sending there stock orders in.

No they're not - AFAIK no Avantix Mobile machines are 'online' in normal use. My understanding is the same as Pumbaa's i.e. the reservation comes through on a PDA and then the guard can print the reservation in Avantix.

 

[leedstraindude]

I think were getting crossed wires here mate.

The PDA is part of the Avantix kit, that connects to the Thyron (mainly used for chip and pin card payments) which is online subject to phone signal!

 

[cuccir]

The system also seems open to vandalism, since someone (whose mobile phone plan has plenty of free text messages) could effectively reserve all of the "ten minute reservation" seats on every train!

Maybe we should coordinate this as a forum to prove what a stupid idea it is...

 

[sonic2009]

Having used this today for the 1751 TAU to BRI, I'm impressed at getting a seat reservation just 25mins before the train left taunton, whilst the train was in motion, but wonders whether the concept will take off. All I did was went on to crosscountrys ten miniute reservations mobile website, I got to this by scanning the QR code on the poster at taunton, and selected my from and to stations, and it came back with my service, this looks like only available on voyagers, you can't really do it for hst's. then what you have to do is text a short message to 82088, I was charged 10p by giffgaff to text, here's what I sent TMR TAU BRI 1751, I text at 1717 and recieved an instant reply with my reservation for 52a coach c, I boarded my train and there was my reservation on the display above the seat, it seems to work for 1st class also, although I've not tried it it seems you just add 1ST after the time of your service well enough from me.

Comments and thoughts people. sorry if been discussed,

 

[bb21]

So what happens if there was already someone who had been occupying the seat since, say, Plymouth and they refuse to move because the seat was vacant when they boarded and had no indication of reservations further along the line?

It's a wonderful idea however it is poorly implemented in its current form.

 

[swt_passenger]

One thing that has become clearer since the earlier thread is that (unlike some predictions around the various forums) it seems you cannot just text in a seat number that you happen to be already sitting in and change it into a reserved one; and the number of seats available for this 10 minute system on an individual train is apparently in single figures - I've heard maybe 8 or 10?

Are the relevant seats all together somewhere, and is that how the train manager is supposed to be able to easily feed back info to say they are already in use?

Will these 10 min bookings still be available if a train is fully booked [I assume there's some sort of a limit] with 'normal' reservations?

And aren't they differently labelled 'en route' as well - 'this seat may become reserved' or something like that?

 

[sonic2009]

When speaking to the train manager he said only 4 seats in coach c and 4 in 1st class, in regards to someone in the seat, no1 was occupying the seat
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Swt passenger if the train is fully booked then the option and text code does not come up on the website

 

[embers25]

XC often run voyagers with "seat reserved for part of journey" or words to that effect displayed. Which is really great when boarding an Edinburgh to Penzance service!

 

[tony_mac]

So, if you are boarding an XC service, always reserve a seat before you get on, just in case you happen to sit in one of the 'unlucky' ones.

It sounds like a good idea, until you think about it! If the train is full, you're kicking someone out of an unreserved seat - if it isn't full then it's not needed.

I wonder if you get compensation if you book a seat when the train is already full and the passenger (reasonably!) refuses to leave it and you have to stand.

 

[Greenback]

I have always been against this idea for the reasons tony mac has listed. As far as I'm concerned, it's another reason to avoid XC!

 

[222007]

The wording on the reservation system says 'This seat maybe reserved' so its your choice if you sit there or not

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I wonder if you get compensation if you book a seat when the train is already full and the passenger (reasonably!) refuses to leave it and you have to stand.

IMO, yes, see below.

41. Refund of reservation fees

If a seat reservation, sleeper reservation or cycle reservation is not honoured, the Train
Company responsible will refund any reservation fee paid. If the Train Company is unable
to provide alternative equivalent accommodation for you or your cycle, you will be
compensated for the inconvenience. The value of the compensation will be no more than
the price of the full single fare for the journey. If you are unable or have decided not to
travel you will be entitled to claim a refund under Condition 26 for the relevant part of your
journey.

 

[aleph_0]

So, if you are boarding an XC service, always reserve a seat before you get on, just in case you happen to sit in one of the 'unlucky' ones.

It sounds like a good idea, until you think about it! If the train is full, you're kicking someone out of an unreserved seat - if it isn't full then it's not needed.

I wonder if you get compensation if you book a seat when the train is already full and the passenger (reasonably!) refuses to leave it and you have to stand.

Haven't we already established that the mobile-booking seats have "this seat may be reserved" displayed above it? So any passenger who sits in the seat should be prepared to move if someone with the reservation boards the train.

Your same argument can be used to argue against any reservations - if the train isn't full, a reservation isn't needed. If it is, you're denying someone else the seat (and in many cases, passengers will make reservations, but then not turn up, so isn't it much better to have no reservations at all). In practice, things are a little more complicated, an electronic reservation system can attempt to pack different journeys in so that the seats are used more efficiently. Just-in-time reservations do a similar job. In fact, they remove the problem of unused reservations. I expect almost all ten minute reservations are actually used.

There is some inefficiency in the fact the seat may be left empty for the whole journey because it "may be reserved", but hopefully short-distance passengers will learn to use such seats. At this point I would propose a modification. One shouldn't be allowed to ten-minute reserve for short-distance journeys, or one may try, but will only get a seat number at short notice, allowing the seat to by assigned to a long-distance passenger as a preference. In fact, having the system initially give confirmation that a seat is reserved, but potentially only send out a seat number later would allow a more optimal solution to the bin-packing problem to be obtained.

 

[Greenback]

There is some inefficiency in the fact the seat may be left empty for the whole journey because it "may be reserved", but hopefully short-distance passengers will learn to use such seats. At this point I would propose a modification. One shouldn't be allowed to ten-minute reserve for short-distance journeys, or one may try, but will only get a seat number at short notice, allowing the seat to by assigned to a long-distance passenger as a preference. In fact, having the system initially give confirmation that a seat is reserved, but potentially only send out a seat number later would allow a more optimal solution to the bin-packing problem to be obtained.

What is the difference between a short and long distance journey? It's all getting even mor ecomplicated now.

Either a seat is reserved or it isn't. The whole concept that a seat 'may be' reserved is a farce.