Crossrail 2 on the Tube Map

[Ambient Sheep]

I'm loving this... great work! I quite like your interchange box idea too.

But I guess mentioning the future Northern Line split would just be evil, wouldn't it? Since (I don't think) we yet know how the colours will go you can't really do anything more anyway...

 

[Ambient Sheep]

That possibility is 0.0%

Due to Roydon and Ware respectively I assume?

That's on top of the lack of general four-track provision past Broxbourne (or Cheshunt?) of course...

 

[Ali.Carr]

I'm loving this... great work! I quite like your interchange box idea too.

But I guess mentioning the future Northern Line split would just be evil, wouldn't it? Since (I don't think) we yet know how the colours will go you can't really do anything more anyway...

Thankfully a split Northern line isn't quite as cartographically terrifying as STAR or a merged Euston Square ...

Spoiler: Camden Town with split NL

 

[The Ham]

Adding in Euston square makes everything very tricky. At that stage I'd be inclined to try something more radical - maybe remove all the connector lines and put Eustom King's Cross St Pancras in its own "interchange box", like below. I'm not sure if this is any clearer or is just an eye-sore.

Spoiler: Interchange zone box

I can see that could work well, could there be other locations that could benefit from such an interchange box?

 

[TheDavibob]

This would allow the CR2 station to use Euston in its name, say Euston (Road?) Interchange. Early CR2 proposals talk of Euston St Pancras but where does that leave Kings Cross?

One could argue that the three stations (Euston+Square, St. Pancras [subsurface], Kings Cross [deep level]) should each be labelled separately, with a Euston/SP a Liverpool Street - Moorgate style connector. I do like the box idea for prettiness, but it very much obscures the physical location of each point with respect the surface terminals.

 

[swt_passenger]

It does pose the question in my mind why not just add on all National Rail stops inside the area. Places like Earlsfield and Hornsey just disappear. By that point when so many stations are included why leave of the few remaining?

As more and more routes transfer to Crossrail 1 or 2 and there are possibly further conversions to LO (the SN WLL service has been mentioned recently) the tube map just becomes redundant. In my opinion it probably already is, the Oyster PAYG map (formerly London Connections) should be the standard map displayed in nearly all circumstances.

 

[najaB]

I do like the box idea for prettiness, but it very much obscures the physical location of each point with respect the surface terminals.

That's pretty much the purpose of the Beck map.

 

[Ali.Carr]

I can see that could work well, could there be other locations that could benefit from such an interchange box?

My first thoughts would be Paddington, Stratford, Bank-Monument and Moorgate-Liverpool-Street. But I'd argue that in every case except Euston-Kings-Cross-St-Pancras, the costs outweigh the benefits (and even for E-KX-StP they still could) - the interchange box takes up lots of space in itself and there are never more than four interchange blobs to join up.

But just for fun, I've quickly mocked up Bank-Monument and Moorgate-Liverpool-Street with interchange boxes:

Spoiler: City interchange boxes

 

[Class 170101]

There's also the possibility that STAR or CR2 will go to Hertford East or Harlow Town

That possibility is 0.0%

I would consider Hertford East a more vaiable destination than Harlow Town but would be interested to know why Bald Rick thinks no chance on either. Broxbourne is a non end of the line for me and therefore Hertford East still requires services from Liverpool Street (High Level) when capacity there could be used for Harlow Town and stations beyond to serve the suburban rather than urban network.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . As long as nobody tries to put Thameslink on there too.

A'hem !

Wouldn't it be appropriate to include Thameslink ?

Even essential ?

 

[Ali.Carr]

A'hem !

Wouldn't it be appropriate to include Thameslink ?

Even essential ?

May as well give it a go:

Spoiler: Thameslink

 

[Class 170101]

I would just move Euston Square from its present position to be on the left side of the Northern line close to and linked with Euston (in preparation for HS2)

 

[jopsuk]

I don't think Thameslink should be sharing the CR2 blob; the TL platforms are accessible only from inside St Pancras, not Euston.

 

[Ali.Carr]

I don't think Thameslink should be sharing the CR2 blob; the TL platforms are accessible only from inside St Pancras, not Euston.

The 2015 consultation factsheet for Euston St Pancras did suggest that the CR2 station would have (as well as entrances leading to above-ground Euston and above-ground St Pancras) a "dedicated entrance and link" to the Thameslink platforms.

But in any case, the CR2 blob seemed like the easiest place for the Thameslink line in terms of graphical layout, so that was my main motivation - even though it does mean the TL line is close to Euston when there is no interchange except through (or over) the CR2 station.

 

[plcd1]

I don't know about the step-free access (I'm sure that that is where most of the errors are).

The interchange at Turnpike lane is based on this factsheet (http://crossrail2.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Wood-Green.pdf) which does refer to a Turnpike Lane interchange. I didn't map the Wood Green option, which looks like it was slightly less favoured after the 2015 consultation.

As a local to Blackhorse Rd I can confirm the lifts have been installed for the Overground platforms. However they have not been switched on because NR's standard "lift interface" box won't talk to LUL's station management system. It's only taken over a year for a possible solution to be devised. They are supposed to be switched on soon but it's possible CR2 might be built before the lifts at BH Road come into service.

Well done with the maps - I envy people who can create such things but don't envy you the task you've had trying to get something that looks reasonably presentable. If nothing else the Central London map illustrates the huge gap on CR2 around the Piccadilly Circus area. I know why there's a gap but it seems so short sighted even if CR2 will have a ticket hall on Shaftesbury Avenue.

 

[Ali.Carr]

Should Blackhorse Road not be a white wheelchair for London Overground as well? I believe its having lifts installed.

As a local to Blackhorse Rd I can confirm the lifts have been installed for the Overground platforms. However they have not been switched on because NR's standard "lift interface" box won't talk to LUL's station management system. It's only taken over a year for a possible solution to be devised. They are supposed to be switched on soon but it's possible CR2 might be built before the lifts at BH Road come into service.

Thanks for the explanations! I'd been going wholly off the current Tube map which doesn't provide the local knowledge. I've updated the map with Blackhorse Road step-free.

 

[rebmcr]

I like the interchange boxes, but rather than grey-backed and dashed-outline, I would make them white-backed and solid outlined in black-white-black (like an Overground orange-white-orange). That would make them look more like an existing interchange connector. I'd put them underneath all of the other lines too, and maybe have the name within its boundary.

 

[Ali.Carr]

I like the interchange boxes, but rather than grey-backed and dashed-outline, I would make them white-backed and solid outlined in black-white-black (like an Overground orange-white-orange). That would make them look more like an existing interchange connector. I'd put them underneath all of the other lines too, and maybe have the name within its boundary.

Was something like this what you had in mind?

Spoiler: Black-and-white interchange box

I did consider having the interchange box in this style originally, but went for the dotted lines in order to try and keep the interchange box as visually distinct as possible (so it wouldn't be confused at a glance for another line like the Overground or CR2). I avoided black so that the interchange box would stand out against the Northern Line.

But - if people think this style works better, let me know!

 

[rebmcr]

Was something like this what you had in mind?

I did consider having the interchange box in this style originally, but went for the dotted lines in order to try and keep the interchange box as visually distinct as possible (so it wouldn't be confused at a glance for another line like the Overground or CR2). I avoided black so that the interchange box would stand out against the Northern Line.

But - if people think this style works better, let me know!

Exactly what I imagined!

I get what you mean about possibly mistaking it for a line — any chance we could see it in the context of a larger area?

Maybe thickening it to the same gauge as the interchange connectors would help it be distinct from CR2's & Overground's actual lines?

 

[Ali.Carr]

Exactly what I imagined!

I get what you mean about possibly mistaking it for a line — any chance we could see it in the context of a larger area?

Maybe thickening it to the same gauge as the interchange connectors would help it be distinct from CR2's & Overground's actual lines?

Of course - here is the interchange box in the contaxt of the full map:

Spoiler: Black-and-white interchange, thin

Thickening the box to the width of the interchange connectors (1.5 times the width of a line) gives this:

Spoiler: Black-and-white interchange, thick

 

[najaB]

Is this you by any chance (forum username suggests it is)?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...-network-could-look-in-2040-a3792616.html?amp

A London Underground enthusiast has designed an unofficial tube map that reveals how the capital’s famous transport network could look in 2040.

The map includes eight major changes that have been proposed or are currently being built as part of the ongoing expansion of the rail network.

It shows how the Underground is likely to evolve dramatically over the coming years, and includes the two major Crossrail developments.

 

[Ali.Carr]

Is this you by any chance (forum username suggests it is)?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...-network-could-look-in-2040-a3792616.html?amp

Yes it was! Did you see the thread on this forum about it?

 

[najaB]

Yes it was! Did you see the thread on this forum about it?

I didn't, sorry, I wasn't on here as much as usual last week. Saw the article, thought of your posts, searched the forum and this thread came up before the one you linked.

 

[Tobbes]

Great work @Ali.Carr ! I would not favour the interchange box mostly for visitors - the current set of blobs is more intuitive to me. And the 2040 tube map is great - but if I was being picky, I would include WRaTH connecting LHR T5 to Reading, and more controversially, Met Line Extenstion to Watford Junction. But excellent, VMT.