Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

[samulih]

At Tottenham Court Road right now and the platform screens aren’t working, so no idea when the next services are etc - not great!

On pins and needles, did the train come?

 

[hwl]

Why do they still have 315s? Since Paddington to Whitechapel is running at half its intended frequency, they must have spare 345s sitting around rusting.

The peak rolling stock requirement comes later when they open through running from Paddington - Shenfield with no through running at Paddington (terminating everything there results in lower unit utilisation than the final timetable and thus being short of units) and very early in the period with through running from Paddington when there are the last remaining 7car units to convert which can't go through the core.
It isn't about now but later this year.

The 315s could easily run the residual 2tph into Liverpool St. high level when there are just 22tph in the core to maintain 12tph into LST as well as the 4tph LST - Gidea Park peak extras if there is the demand (TfL would love not to have to operate these).

 

[345 050]

Real shame that 4G couldn't be provided, hope it won't be a huge wait to fix it. Also felt like spotty WiFi in the stations too but I wasn't paying a huge amount of attention so could have got that wrong. Is there any indication of when 4G will be provided in the tunnels?

Liverpool street entrance near central line did feel bizarrely claustrophobic given how massive all the rest of the station is. I was also on it with one of the escalators out of service and it was really backing up. I imagine with time the other entrance will get used more which may shift the load but given loadings I imagine are still down a bit on what they could be I can see that becoming a real pinch point.

Certainly no 4G and the WiFi in the trains does not seem to be working again yet, it has been switched off ready for opening EL a few weeks/months(?) back.

Liverpool Street does feel like it needs a bit of reorganisation around the central line/EL passage. The barriers are still in place to allow free movement of people off the central line escalator, but that means everyone else just has less space and I can imagine that might back up. Odd that it's just been left untouched.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Went on it for the first time yesterday, from Abbey Wood to Farringdon.

General impression:

• Definitely a quick journey, and you can really feel the acceleration of the trains as they pull out of stations. The long wait times at stations is disappointing though.
• Surprised how crowded the train was, with people standing in both directions once West of Woolwich. It's definitely attracted people very quickly, which is good.
• Very uncomfortable hard seats.
• I feel that no toilets on the trains or in most stations is a serious mistake.
• Disappointingly long walk when changing at Farringdon - particularly from Eastbound Circle/H&C to Eastbound Elizabeth Line - and having to exit the station en route too if following the signs. I see from other comments in this thread that's not unusual.

 

[grandgarrande]

Re: Dwell Times, 1 minute dwell times are necessary when through running commences in October.

Rather sneaky that TfL has reduced the Gidea Park - Liverpool Street from 4 to 2.

 

[DC1989]

Why are such long dwell times needed with Through running?

 

[DanNCL]

No doubt part of the reason for long dwell times, at Tottenham Court Road heading east at least, is that the trains will likely be running on schedules that allow for a stop at Bond Street despite nothing actually stopping there currently.

 

[AM9]

Went on it for the first time yesterday, from Abbey Wood to Farringdon.

General impression:

• Definitely a quick journey, and you can really feel the acceleration of the trains as they pull out of stations. The long wait times at stations is disappointing though.
• Surprised how crowded the train was, with people standing in both directions once West of Woolwich. It's definitely attracted people very quickly, which is good.
• Very uncomfortable hard seats.
• I feel that no toilets on the trains or in most stations is a serious mistake.
• Disappointingly long walk when changing at Farringdon - particularly from Eastbound Circle/H&C to Eastbound Elizabeth Line - and having to exit the station en route too if following the signs. I see from other comments in this thread that's not unusual.

I also did the Lizzie yesterday. I did a change from Thameslink to Crossrail and vice versa, that was easy. The problem with LU eastbound is that the platform is some way west of the other line and you can't just walk along the TL platform as you can on the westbound. Front of LU to back of Lizzie is still quite quick, and more than compensated for on a journey between Farringdon and Abbey Wood which takes less than 11 minutes. Before this week, such a time would be unimagineable.

 

[grandgarrande]

Why are such long dwell times needed with Through running?

No doubt part of the reason for long dwell times, at Tottenham Court Road heading east at least, is that the trains will likely be running on schedules that allow for a stop at Bond Street despite nothing actually stopping there currently.

Services continuing from Paddington have various calling patterns and 15 - 30 min gaps so it better to make sure passengers have enough time to enter and exit the train without causing delays. I estimate there is only 90 secs leeway to get everything on the right track at westbourne park before delays and cancellations.

4 months to get Davies Street Ticket hall up and running!

 

[Mag_seven]

The interchange between the EL and Jubilee line Stations at Canary Wharf is poor. The stations are a good distance apart and the signage at street level is poor. I can see people wandering around for ages in the Canada Square area trying to find it.

 

[Robert Ambler]

There was a problem with the escalators at Liverpool Street in the evening peak yesterday which was causing long queues to access the EL.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The interchange between the EL and Jubilee line Stations at Canary Wharf is poor. The stations are a good distance apart and the signage at street level is poor. I can see people wandering around for ages in the Canada Square area trying to find it.

I find interchange between everything poor at Canary Wharf. Even on the DLR they often advertise Jubilee from West India Quay, I believe, due to the walking distance.

 

[43102EMR]

There was a problem with the escalators at Liverpool Street in the evening peak yesterday which was causing long queues to access the EL.

Moorgate side or Liverpool Street side? All seemed fine on the LST side

 

[stuu]

The interchange between the EL and Jubilee line Stations at Canary Wharf is poor. The stations are a good distance apart and the signage at street level is poor. I can see people wandering around for ages in the Canada Square area trying to find it.

Isn't that the plan? Let people walk past as many retail opportunities as possible?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Disappointingly long walk when changing at Farringdon - particularly from Eastbound Circle/H&C to Eastbound Elizabeth Line - and having to exit the station en route too if following the signs. I see from other comments in this thread that's not unusual.

Interested in why you chose Farringdon.

How does it compare with Moorgate or Liverpool Street (to opposite ends of Liverpool Street EL station)? Would at least avoid the 'double barrier and crossing Cowcross Street in a thunderstorm' syndrome.

I think that the seats are excellent (but I've always appreciated firm seats).

The interchange between the EL and Jubilee line Stations at Canary Wharf is poor. The stations are a good distance apart and the signage at street level is poor. I can see people wandering around for ages in the Canada Square area trying to find it.

Noting the alternatives for many Jubilee Line journeys (Stratford once the Sheffield branch is connected and Bond Street, together with continuing on Southeastern from Abbey Wood and Woolwich to London Bridge or Waterloo East) what do you see as the biggest interchange demand at Canary Wharf? I had somehow always seen it as principally a traffic source/sink in its own right.

 

[345 050]

Services continuing from Paddington have various calling patterns and 15 - 30 min gaps so it better to make sure passengers have enough time to enter and exit the train without causing delays. I estimate there is only 90 secs leeway to get everything on the right track at westbourne park before delays and cancellations.

4 months to get Davies Street Ticket hall up and running!

I could understand slightly extended dwell time at Paddington for that reason, but why all of the other stations?

 

[iphone76]

It has been noticed by the powers that be that additional Oyster readers are needed at Farringdon and Abbey Wood, so hopefully they will be installed in the not too distant future.

Re. the dwell times, most stations are booked as 60 seconds except Woolwich, Custom House and Whitechapel which are 30 seconds. Driving on Tuesday late afternoon, I did need 60 seconds at some stations as people were bunching at one end of the train and were taking longer to board so at other stations the dwell time was reduced to around 43 seconds to make up the time. Hopefully this will get better once people get used to where they need to get on and off at stations.

 

[thomalex]

 

[Basil Jet]

I could understand slightly extended dwell time at Paddington for that reason, but why all of the other stations?

Maybe the timetable has been planned for demand beyond the first day?

 

[345 050]

Interested in why you chose Farringdon.

How does it compare with Moorgate or Liverpool Street (to opposite ends of Liverpool Street EL station)? Would at least avoid the 'double barrier and crossing Cowcross Street in a thunderstorm' syndrome.

I think that the seats are excellent (but I've always appreciated firm seats).


Noting the alternatives for many Jubilee Line journeys (Stratford once the Sheffield branch is connected and Bond Street, together with continuing on Southeastern from Abbey Wood and Woolwich to London Bridge or Waterloo East) what do you see as the biggest interchange demand at Canary Wharf? I had somehow always seen it as principally a traffic source/sink in its own right.

Agreed. Canary wharf is mainly a destination rather than an interchange hub.

It has been noticed by the powers that be that additional Oyster readers are needed at Farringdon and Abbey Wood, so hopefully they will be installed in the not too distant future.

Re. the dwell times, most stations are booked as 60 seconds except Woolwich, Custom House and Whitechapel which are 30 seconds. Driving on Tuesday late afternoon, I did need 60 seconds at some stations as people were bunching at one end of the train and were taking longer to board so at other stations the dwell time was reduced to around 43 seconds to make up the time. Hopefully this will get better once people get used to where they need to get on and off at stations.

Thanks for info on dwell times, reassuring that a lot of stations on the Abbey Wood branch have adjusted dwell times which sound more appropriate. I think 60 seconds, whilst noticeable, is not too bad, and probably preferable to 5 minutes recovery time waiting for path to get onto GWML.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Interested in why you chose Farringdon.

I guess it seemed the obvious place to change - perhaps influenced by that my previous route tended to be, Thameslink to Farringdon and then Circle/H&C. And since it's the first time I've used the Elizabeth Line, I have no idea which place to change is easiest - so had to pick somewhere!

How does it compare with Moorgate or Liverpool Street (to opposite ends of Liverpool Street EL station)? Would at least avoid the 'double barrier and crossing Cowcross Street in a thunderstorm' syndrome.

I would love to know that too. Also wondered about Barbican (from the Eastern end of the EL Farringdon platforms).

 

[JaJaWa]

I find interchange between everything poor at Canary Wharf. Even on the DLR they often advertise Jubilee from West India Quay, I believe, due to the walking distance.

They advertise the Jubilee line from Heron Quays, and the Elizabeth line from West India Quay

It has been noticed by the powers that be that additional Oyster readers are needed at Farringdon and Abbey Wood, so hopefully they will be installed in the not too distant future.

I wonder if Thameslink going on the Tube map (initially only due to the Northern line closure) is causing unforeseen capacity issues at Farringdon

 

[ijmad]

How does it compare with Moorgate or Liverpool Street (to opposite ends of Liverpool Street EL station)? Would at least avoid the 'double barrier and crossing Cowcross Street in a thunderstorm' syndrome.

You can actually just walk up the Northbound platform and use the overbridge to get to either tube platform without ever going through gates or facing the weather. Though it's not really faster. Or if you want to go westbound on the subsurface lines you could come up to the southbound via the lifts and just step through the gap! But I wouldn't suggest everyone tries to use the lifts all the time.

 

[londonteacher]

I feel that no toilets on the trains or in most stations is a serious mistake.

On the train journey times do not really warrant it. If they did you could argue that most suburban trains such as Southeastern or tube trains would also require it but as hardly anybody does travel the complete length (current Abbey Wood to Paddington excepted) then it would just waste space.

However, agreed that stations should if possible have one.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They advertise the Jubilee line from Heron Quays, and the Elizabeth line from West India Quay


I wonder if Thameslink going on the Tube map (initially only due to the Northern line closure) is causing unforeseen capacity issues at Farringdon

Heron Quays is what I meant, yes. Still same thing - my point clearly being that Canary Wharf’s interchanges are so far that they’re advertised from other DLR stations

 

[Horizon22]

The interchange between the EL and Jubilee line Stations at Canary Wharf is poor. The stations are a good distance apart and the signage at street level is poor. I can see people wandering around for ages in the Canada Square area trying to find it.

Canary Wharf has always been a maze to me!

 

[Spurs]

- Why is there a sign at the far end of the Whitechapel westbound platform pointing to the eastbound platform??? Is this solely for people who got on the wrong train at Canary Wharf???

I think that's because from Autumn, Whitechapel will be the final stop on the central core before the split into the Abbey Wood and Shenfield branches. So if you're coming from Abbey Wood, Canary Wharf etc and want to go to Stratford, Shenfield etc you'll change at Whitechapel rather than Liverpool Street.

 

[londonteacher]

Do the ticket machines at Abbey Wood have the crossrail Oyster card? I need a new oyster as mine is slightly bent.

 

[davews]

Did my exploration today! In conjunction with a nice walk from Woolwich to Abbey Wood (mainy Green Chain walk). I am impressed.

Started Waterloo-TCR on Northern line then EL to Woolwich. Interchange Northern/EL at TCR not too bad, overall that journey took just under 30 minutes which is certainly much quicker than using DLR. Then my walk, passing Lesnes Abbey on the way. EL back from Abbey Wood to Woolwich for lunch at the Great Harry Wetherspoons followed by another ride down to Paddington to say I have done the lot (and almost all of it two ways).

I think it depends very much where you are in the trains as to how busy it is. Morning train noticed the first carriages were empty but the one I got on was packed. This afternoon it was pretty quiet all the way to Paddington. Interchange to Bakerloo line at Paddington is long, long...

The question was asked here about the interchange at Woolwich to Woolwich Arsenal. I passed there four times today, yes they are doing work on the rail station and it is boarded off with a sign to enter via the DLR entrance. The DLR though and its roundels are very visible. What is lacking is any TFL signage once you are out of the station or any indication it is a 200m walk or whatever over the main road. There are some Woolwich direction signs though and a couple of maps on bus stops showing the local roads which have been updated to show the Elizabeth. Somebody who doesn't know the locality though may be a little confused.

Canary Wharf - I can't really like those glary canary yellow lights on the escalator, though I expect others love them. Note that the trains slow down appreciably when going through Bond Street.

Overall a good experience. How much my trips to London will gain from it is uncertain - clearly faster going towards Woolwich and when it is open to Stratford possibly a bit quicker than jubilee. But starting from Waterloo existing routes in the central area are just as fast. Once the novelty wears off...

 

[londonteacher]

Currently on the 19:10 Abbey Wood to Paddington waiting to depart and the arrival train was certainly very busy with people exiting and using the interchange with Southeastern and Thameslink. A very good sign!