D&G Buses

[northwichcat]

I don't know if it's a new arrangement or a 'just for today' arrangement but this morning vehicle 105 ran the first 88 Macclesfield to Knutsford, and then went on to the 312. Vehicle 41 ran the first Macclesfield to Knutsford and vehicle 582 started on the 188, before going on to 89/88 workings.

Haven't noticed any interworking between the 31/37 and 49/82 as mooted above.

 

[SeanM1997]

12 Leighton Hospital - Crewe - Brookhouse Estate - Shavington - Weekday evening journeys on service 12 are retimed to improve reliability from 26th February.

https://www.dgbus.co.uk/assets/12_2024-02-26.pdf

D&G have registered to vary their route 82 (Northwich - Chester) from 1st April 2024. No timetable as yet but I wonder if this could be the increase to half hourly with Network North funding

Pardon Our Interruption

 

[Danfilm007]

https://www.dgbus.co.uk/assets/12_2024-02-26.pdf

D&G have registered to vary their route 82 (Northwich - Chester) from 1st April 2024. No timetable as yet but I wonder if this could be the increase to half hourly with Network North funding

Pardon Our Interruption

As far as I know no Network North funding has been assigned against it - the last batch Cheshire West and Chester got was BSIP+ that ended up getting spent on the Chester Park and Ride. Certainly the registration here suggests "no" to subsidy which for the purposes of this it would have to tick?

 

[33117]

Another of the ex cardiff MMCs 572 is back in service again. According to a member of depot staff at crewe I know 570/571/572 are all to be operated by macc.

Although 572 has already been nicked by wincham but no doubt it'll find it's way back again.

 

[northwichcat]

Another of the ex cardiff MMCs 572 is back in service again. According to a member of depot staff at crewe I know 570/571/572 are all to be operated by macc.

Although 572 has already been nicked by wincham but no doubt it'll find it's way back again.

572 was loaned to Chaserider and was used by them as recently as Tuesday. It seems Wincham is operated as an outstation of Macclesfield now. Vehicles 129-131, that used to be regulars for the 130 route, seem to move between the two all the time, as do the 8.8m Enviro 200s. I think it's actually only 570 and 571 that are allocated to Macclesfield and haven't spent time at Wincham. 117 has spent a bit of time of Wincham and 165 spent a brief period at Wincham. It also only seems to be the long Enviros that rarely end up on Macclesfield work, even after going there for servicing. Possibly due to the 48 and 188 needing long vehicles to meet the contract requirements? Although, some of the SRs would meet the 188 requirement but might not meet the 48 requirement.

Looking at tracking for today both 43 and 131 aren't tracking today and both were last used on the 88. 41 and 582 last tracked on the 48 and aren't out today. So one or more might be at Macclesfield being checked over with 572 taking it's place. Looks like 572 was there in time for an early Weaverham working this morning, so it doesn't sound like an unplanned swap due to an on-the-day vehicle failure.

 

[SeanM1997]

D&G still have the passenger survey on their website - asking for views on routes added since April 2023. There's been slight changes to 12/31/37 but very minor. We are shortly approaching 1 year of D&G being the largest operator in Mid Cheshire and East Cheshire, yet there doesn't appear to be appetite for growth

I know Cheshire East have very little funding from BSIP related programmes, but the 12 is regularly upgraded from Solos to Enviros due to passenger numbers; and the 37/38 corridor is very popular, especially between Crewe and Sandbach.

Whilst it would require 2 buses - an hourly service between Leighton and Sandbach would alleviate some of the capacity issues. Move the 31 back to via Underwood Lane and operate a new service (36) between Leighton, Broad Street, Crewe, Crewe Station, Haslington and Sandbach. This would give Leighton Hospital a direct service to the railway station instead of Rail House and bring back a link to the station for Broad Street area. It would also give a Saturday service from Sandbach to Leighton.

This seems a logical addition and reshuffle to alleviate some of the issues in D&G Crewe area

 

[northwichcat]

but the 12 is regularly upgraded from Solos to Enviros due to passenger numbers

Are you sure it's down to passenger numbers? D&G don't generally seem to care about reducing standing passengers. If they did they'd get some deckers or run some additional journeys on the 31/37 and 38 routes.

Just checking the past couple of weeks the 66 reg SRs don't seem to have out as much, on any route, and D&G have mainly used short 26 and 28 seater Enviro 200s to cover for them, except one day when a large 55 reg Solo filled in. (Presuming vehicles tracked correctly) With the exception of the large Solo, the vehicles filling in have fewer seats than the 66 reg SRs. I would suspect that's down to the 66 reg Solos needing servicing/work doing and they're just using whatever is available to cover.

 

[sonic2009]

The problem with D&G is they're not consistent with the buses they use on routes. In the past week or so I've seen the smaller Enviro full and standing at school times on a 31.

 

[SeanM1997]

Are you sure it's down to passenger numbers? D&G don't generally seem to care about reducing standing passengers. If they did they'd get some deckers or run some additional journeys on the 31/37 and 38 routes.

Sadly deckers don't fit in the Crewe depot - I guess they could get them for Wincham/Macclesfield but may lead to an imbalance

The problem with D&G is there not consistent with the buses they use on routes. In the past week or so I've seen the smaller Enviro full and standing at school times on a 31.

Which section has been the problem - and is it more acute in morning or afternoon?

 

[northwichcat]

The problem with D&G is there not consistent with the buses they use on routes. In the past week or so I've seen the smaller Enviro full and standing at school times on a 31.

There's been occasions where I've caught a full and standing large Enviro for my outbound journey, then I've looked to see what's tracking for my planned return journey and it's been a small 26 seater one!

Which section has been the problem - and is it more acute in morning or afternoon?

There were concerns about school children being left behind on northbound AM journeys when Arriva used Cadets to cover for deckers! There was talk of a designated school bus being introduced for parents willing to pay for termly passes, following D&G taking on the route. I don't know if that materialised.

 

[sonic2009]

0640 37 Crewe to Northwich this morning, prime bus for school traffic and college students. Ex London Enviro 200 on it this morning, definitely too small to cope.

 

[northwichcat]

0640 37 Crewe to Northwich this morning, prime bus for school traffic and college students. Ex London Enviro 200 on it this morning, definitely too small to cope.

The small Enviros have also been appearing on the 82 runs to John Deanes college.

I think D&G need to bite the bullet and scrap vehicles 34-43 and 53 and 54. They aren't reliable and they have too many small vehicles, now that they run different routes and many see a lower frequency than in the past.

While Optare's vehicles aren't universially popular I think replacing half with Metrocities and the other half with slightly bigger Solos would be a good balance, and would also mean that they are bringing in vehicles which have better fuel economy than equivalents.

 

[Robertj21a]

The small Enviros have also been appearing on the 82 runs to John Deanes college.

I think D&G need to bite the bullet and scrap vehicles 34-43 and 53 and 54. They aren't reliable and they have too many small vehicles, now that they run different routes and many see a lower frequency than in the past.

While Optare's vehicles aren't universially popular I think replacing half with Metrocities and the other half with slightly bigger Solos would be a good balance, and would also mean that they are bringing in vehicles which have better fuel economy than equivalents.

Does D+G have the funds to replace so many buses ?

 

[northwichcat]

Does D+G have the funds to replace so many buses ?

D&G are owned by Centrebus, who have Julian Peddle as the main shareholder. Having old buses with poor fuel economy that need constant maintenance will be digging in to their finances. An investment in more modern vehicles could pay off in the long term. So I would have thought it's in the shareholders interests even if it requires Centrebus to loan D&G finance or vehicles.

 

[Danfilm007]

D&G are owned by Centrebus, who have Julian Peddle as the main shareholder. Having old buses with poor fuel economy that need constant maintenance will be digging in to their finances. An investment in more modern vehicles could pay off in the long term. So I would have thought it's in the shareholders interests even if it requires Centrebus to loan D&G finance or vehicles.

Does D+G have the funds to replace so many buses ?

D&G have been borrowing buses from Chaserider and Centrebus since last April on-and-off and they have had quite a few new to them vehicles (noted by northwichcat!) so I think they do have the ability - it's also a case of using a bus you own for longer is more economic. I did spot one of the 09 plate little E200s on the 82 which was full and standing so they would see an incentive to increase it at some point I would hope.

 

[northwichcat]

I did spot one of the 09 plate little E200s on the 82 which was full and standing so they would see an incentive to increase it at some point I would hope.

The 82 is another route that had deckers on some journeys prior to D&G. D&G partly got round that by running a duplicate service between Tarvin and Northwich direction in the morning and having 75 minute gaps between services in the Chester direction until 08:30.

At one point it was designated 3 Optare Versas due to some Enviro 200s not coping well with Kelsall hill and the route needing larger capacity vehicles.

 

[Danfilm007]

The 82 is another route that had deckers on some journeys prior to D&G. D&G partly got round that by running a duplicate service between Tarvin and Northwich direction in the morning and having 75 minute gaps between services in the Chester direction until 08:30.

At one point it was designated 3 Optare Versas due to some Enviro 200s not coping well with Kelsall hill and the route needing larger capacity vehicles.

I think the 82, along with 31 and 37 were always well suited to Deckers. Certainly Stagecoach's 84 has healthy numbers still too!

 

[northwichcat]

Seems vehicle 531 YY64 GWF has returned to Centrebus. Neither 530 or 532 has tracked for a while either.

 

[ACBest]

Seems vehicle 531 YY64 GWF has returned to Centrebus. Neither 530 or 532 has tracked for a while either.

Can confirm, I drove it to Grantham earlier - the other two are still with D&G and I don’t think there are plans to ship them out in the immediate future.

530 should’ve originally been the one coming here, but Sod’s Law struck, and it’s now awaiting a new engine! (Which is even more annoying for me, as the only one of the trio I’ve never driven…!)

 

[northwichcat]

Can confirm, I drove it to Grantham earlier - the other two are still with D&G and I don’t think there are plans to ship them out in the immediate future.

530 should’ve originally been the one coming here, but Sod’s Law struck, and it’s now awaiting a new engine! (Which is even more annoying for me, as the only one of the trio I’ve never driven…!)

I noticed 530, 531 and 532 have a different engine noise to most of the D&G long Enviros, so if 530 was to get a new engine and the D&G livery it might be much harder to spot. I'm surprised a vehicle has gone back to Centrebus when D&G seem to have quite a few long Enviros that are unavailable at the moment.

On an unrelated point D&G seem to be operating RRBs between Stoke and Birmingham this morning, with 149, 521 and 523 all currently tracking.

 

[SeanM1997]

Looking at BusTimes from 1 April 2024:

49 Rudheath - Northwich - Weaverham
Half hourly service on entire route Monday - Saturday, increasing the number of services in Weaverham.

Weekday schedule:

49 - Rudheath - Weaverham

D & G Bus

bustimes.org

Saturday schedule:

49 - Rudheath - Weaverham

D & G Bus

bustimes.org

82 Northwich - Tarvin - Chester
Saturday 1730 Northwich - Sandiway is now extended to Chester, new 1845 Chester - Northwich services

82 - Northwich - Chester

D & G Bus

bustimes.org

 

[northwichcat]

That'll mean the Weaverham will get its post-COVID frequency it had under Arriva again.

I presume they've identified demand for a later service to Chester on Saturdays. Sandiway (not Sandiwell) is closer to both Crewe and Wincham than Chester.

 

[EnviroExplorer]

I noticed 530, 531 and 532 have a different engine noise to most of the D&G long Enviros, so if 530 was to get a new engine and the D&G livery it might be much harder to spot. I'm surprised a vehicle has gone back to Centrebus when D&G seem to have quite a few long Enviros that are unavailable at the moment.

On an unrelated point D&G seem to be operating RRBs between Stoke and Birmingham this morning, with 149, 521 and 523 all currently tracking.

530-532 have the 6-cylinder Cummins engine, more commonly found in E400s. There are some others within D&G and Centrebus which I’m sure someone else can fill in.

The buses on Rail Replacement are operating between Birmingham and Stourbridge but were tracking upon leaving the depot in most cases.

 

[SeanM1997]

That'll mean the Weaverham will get its post-COVID frequency it had under Arriva again.

I presume they've identified demand for a later service to Chester on Saturdays. Sandiway (not Sandiwell) is closer to both Crewe and Wincham than Chester.

What will be interesting is how this works - as at the moment the 49 (Rudheath only) uses the 82 bus. This won't be possible meaning an extra bus will be required as well as a 40 minute break in service - which does seem wasteful if not doing anything

Weaverham - Northwich will be:
xx:07 49
xx:37 49 - additional service
xx:50 (even) 48/48A

Northwich - Weaverham will be:
xx:05 (odd) 48/48A
xx:25 49 - additional service
xx:55 49

It does allow an enhancement in spread in services

 

[northwichcat]

The full 49 is two circular services that have been joined together to create a cross town service. Hence why there's no turnaround time in Rudheath or Weaverham but there's a wait in Northwich. I presume the two afternoon split journeys are down to switching the times for the late afternoon runs to match with school finishing times. A 15:30 departure from Greenbank, works better for schools than 15:20 then 15:50.

Just looking at the 82 and other timetables I think the most sensible thing D&G cut do to prevent layovers, but retain driver breaks would be some 89 shorts to Wincham, the hours the full 89 doesn't run.

10:50 Northwich-Wincham, 11:19 Wincham-Northwich
12:50 Northwich-Wincham, 13:19 Wincham-Northwich
NO 14:50 on weekdays because of John Deanes extension to the 82
16:50 Northwich-Wincham, 17:19 Wincham-Northwich (or returns empty as it would be just behind a CAT9)

 

[SeanM1997]

The full 49 is two circular services that have been joined together to create a cross town service. Hence why there's no turnaround time in Rudheath or Weaverham but there's a wait in Northwich. I presume the two afternoon split journeys are down to switching the times for the late afternoon runs to match with school finishing times. A 15:30 departure from Greenbank, works better for schools than 15:20 then 15:50.

Just looking at the 82 and other timetables I think the most sensible thing D&G cut do to prevent layovers, but retain driver breaks would be some 89 shorts to Wincham, the hours the full 89 doesn't run.

10:50 Northwich-Wincham, 11:19 Wincham-Northwich
12:50 Northwich-Wincham, 13:19 Wincham-Northwich
NO 14:50 on weekdays because of John Deanes extension to the 82
16:50 Northwich-Wincham, 17:19 Wincham-Northwich (or returns empty as it would be just behind a CAT9)

Another option would be to operate the opposite timings to the N4 to Leftwich, given the N4 doesn't do early morning/later afternoon services
xx:50 Northwich, xx:59 Leftwich Old Hall Primary School, xx:06 Kingsmead, Sir John's College, xx:12 Northwich

Arriva operated Leftwich half-hourly so this would offer a similar service albeit just to Northwich instead of half hourly including Barnton. Yes it may have some conflict with CWAC (Chester West and Chester Council) N4 subsidy but N4 also covers Barnton so could be seen as offering two different products (and N4 is predominately a Barnton service over a Leftwich service looking at the timetable)

 

[northwichcat]

given the N4 doesn't do early morning/later afternoon services

The hours the N4 doesn't run to Kingsmead are the ones there won't be a long layover on the 82 due to the 82 also serving John Deanes. I think most of the stops on the N4 are within 0.5 miles from a stop on the 31/37, which is probably why Cheshire West decided it was sufficient for a service to just run limited daytime hours.

On an unrelated point the North Western branded 504 is back at Macclesfield, having been swapped for 101 this morning due to a vehicle fault.

 

[northwichcat]

One of High Peak's drivers has been driving some of D&G's vehicles out of Macclesfield and she hasn't been that positive about how good they are.

KX57 FMD​

It's been a long time since I've driven an 8.9m Enviro200 of this age, and it really does let you know that it is entering it's 16th year of service, being a proper boneshaker rental spec bus so often bought new by independents in the late 2000s and early 2010s. It does still have working kickdown though, a rare thing in this day and age.

This example seems to have been passed around from defunct operator to defunct operator, being new to Stansted Transit (which I can find nothing about), then having made it's way to Kent Top Travel, then to Tappin's (which while I think it still exists, it's no more than a part of Weavaway Travel and they have also ran the City Sightseeing buses in Oxford).

It then ran with Heyfordian and then finally Webberbus, before passing to D & G when that operator ceased trading in 2016.​

D & G Bus 35 KX57 FMD

Seen under the imposing aqueduct which carries the Macclesfield Canal over this part of Bollington, one of the more elderly members of the Macclesfield fleet pauses for a photo stop on one of the quieter morning runs on the 10. It's been a long time since I've driven an 8.9m Enviro200 of this...

www.flickr.com

CN17 BHA​

Seen at the Cotton Tree terminus in Bollington, this is one of two ex-Cardiff Bus 9.7m Enviro 200 MMCs to join the D & G fleet at Macclesfield.

I have to say, it's definitely showing it's wear and tear from six years in Cardiff, and the Voith gearbox (whilst better than that in first generation Enviro200s) doesn't make for the smoothest experience.

I only managed to get one trip on each the 3 and the 10 out of this before an ABS fault put it out of service for the rest of the day.​

D & G Bus 570 CN17 BHA

Seen at the Cotton Tree terminus in Bollington, this is one of two ex-Cardiff Bus 9.7m Enviro 200 MMCs to join the D & G fleet at Macclesfield. I have to say, it's definitely showing it's wear and tear from six years in Cardiff, and the Voith gearbox (whilst better than that in first generation...

www.flickr.com

 

[James101]

I’ve read about the 88’s poor approach to compliant timings on this thread but I actually experienced it this evening on my first trip on the service, the 18:50 off Altrincham. On time ex Altrincham, 7-10 minutes early from the Airport perimeter to Wilmslow where I alighted to walk to the station rather than wait the 12 minutes stand time accrued.

What really irked was the driver changed the destination to ‘not in service’ at Wilmslow (or possibly before). There’s still half of the route left to run, if he bothered running it. It’s not even bone idleness, it’s actively putting off customers.

 

[northwichcat]

I’ve read about the 88’s poor approach to compliant timings on this thread but I actually experienced it this evening on my first trip on the service, the 18:50 off Altrincham. On time ex Altrincham, 7-10 minutes early from the Airport perimeter to Wilmslow where I alighted to walk to the station rather than wait the 12 minutes stand time accrued.

What really irked was the driver changed the destination to ‘not in service’ at Wilmslow (or possibly before). There’s still half of the route left to run, if he bothered running it. It’s not even bone idleness, it’s actively putting off customers.

This is a regular occurance on the tracking for the last journey towards Knutsford. The tracking stops before Mobberley and the driver doesn't bother to drive around the Longridge Estate but the tracking doesn't record which way it goes.

Vehicles – 88 - Altrincham - Macclesfield – bustimes.org

One day the tracking showed the driver of the 18:15 Macclesfield to Wilmslow driving out of Knutsford bus station, pulling in to the service station on the M6 and remaining there for around half an hour.

There must be one or two lazy drivers who think if there's no-one on the bus and it's the last journey of the day, they can skip the rest of the journey. If the relevant manager is aware of it, then D&G should be stripped of the contract.