December 2023 Timetable Change

[43074]

Yes, there was a spell of 22tph.

Was there? As Welwyn to Sevenoaks in the peaks didn't start until May 2022, so 16tph from the MML and 2tph each from Peterborough and Cambridge would be a maximum of 20tph.

 

[Bald Rick]

Was there? As Welwyn to Sevenoaks in the peaks didn't start until May 2022, so 16tph from the MML and 2tph each from Peterborough and Cambridge would be a maximum of 20tph.

Yes, a quirk in the timetable, in one peak, one direction only!

 

[Park47515]

There's also an additional 12-car in the mix as well, the 0733 from Bedford becomes a 12-car which returns in the evening peak at 1653 from Gatwick (1741 from St Pancras).

The reinstatement of the 0715 means the core has 21tph arriving at St Pancras between 0735 and 0835.

Just need a Littlehampton back...

 

[Llandudno]

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but Wrexham Central–Bidston is going to ~every 45 minutes with Hawarden Bridge a request stop.

So less time to wait when a service operated by a Class 230 unit gets cancelled…

 

[Jturner98]

Anyone know what the LNER 225 diagrams will be after the TTC?

 

[JonathanH]

Anyone know what the LNER 225 diagrams will be after the TTC?

Yes - discussed here - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/intercity-225-diagrams-after-december.257964/ - one diagram removed on Monday to Saturday relative to now, and some extra workings on Sunday.

 

[infobleep]

I noticed that the 14:54, Reading to Gatwick Airport service is a fast service but with an additional stop at Shalford, rather than stopping additionally at Shalford, Chilworth and Gomshall.

The thing is, it departs Redhill at 16:17, which is the same number of minutes past the hour to the 12:54, which does stop additionally at all three stations?

So 14:17 and 16:17 respectively.

Does anyone know why the two stations are missed out? I was checking Monday 11 Dec.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I noticed that the 14:54, Reading to Gatwick Airport service is a fast service but with an additional stop at Shalford, rather than stopping additionally at Shalford, Chilworth and Gomshall.

The thing is, it departs Redhill at 16:17, which is the same number of minutes past the hour to the 12:54, which does stop additionally at all three stations?

So 14:17 and 16:17 respectively.

Does anyone know why the two stations are missed out? I was checking Monday 11 Dec.

Looking at the overall timetable on GWRs website it appears to be due to the pattern change for the evening peak where every train serves Shalford and then either Chilworth & Gomshall or Dorking West & Betchworth. The transition creates an additional interval gap of 30 mins on top of the previous 2hrs for the Chilworth/Gomshall pairing.

 

[infobleep]

Looking at the overall timetable on GWRs website it appears to be due to the pattern change for the evening peak where every train serves Shalford and then either Chilworth & Gomshall or Dorking West & Betchworth. The transition creates an additional interval gap of 30 mins on top of the previous 2hrs for the Chilworth/Gomshall pairing.

Given the there is time to stop there, they might as well do so. Its not as of the train is departing Shalford later or Redhill earlier.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Given the there is time to stop there, they might as well do so. Its not as of the train is departing Shalford later or Redhill earlier.

It’s called giving performance robustness. Not calling allows for some recovery time prior to the evening peak starting.

 

[Minstral25]

It’s called giving performance robustness. Not calling allows for some recovery time prior to the evening peak starting.

On a similar vein why does 2O96 22:34 from Reading turn round at Shalford and not provide a service to Gatwick and return to Reading later?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

On a similar vein why does 2O96 22:34 from Reading turn round at Shalford and not provide a service to Gatwick and return to Reading later?

Because the route is shut for overnight engineering works. Details to be found in Network Rail’s operational rules which can be found online.

Network Rail has to maintain the track, the need for regular patrols has been highlighted this week by the broken rails on the Western Main Line.

 

[infobleep]

It’s called giving performance robustness. Not calling allows for some recovery time prior to the evening peak starting.

Fair enough.

 

[FenMan]

Because the route is shut for overnight engineering works. Details to be found in Network Rail’s operational rules which can be found online.

Network Rail has to maintain the track, the need for regular patrols has been highlighted this week by the broken rails on the Western Main Line.

The 23:34 from Reading does operate through to Gatwick though.

I thought the truncation of the 22:34 was a DfT-inspired decision due to a lack of custom east of Guildford. Indeed, it wasn't restored to the "normal" pre-COVID evening schedule at all until last year, resulting in a two hour service gap between Reading - Blackwater Valley stations - Guildford.

 

[JonathanH]

I thought the truncation of the 22:34 was a DfT-inspired decision due to a lack of custom east of Guildford.

It certainly means that only one unit is at Redhill overnight, and given there are no GWR drivers based there avoids either having to run a late train back to Reading, a taxi ride for the driver or an overnight turn.

The 23:34 from Reading does operate through to Gatwick though.

It doesn't come back to Reading though. The driver has to do a night shift to work it.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The 23:34 from Reading does operate through to Gatwick though.

I thought the truncation of the 22:34 was a DfT-inspired decision due to a lack of custom east of Guildford. Indeed, it wasn't restored to the "normal" pre-COVID evening schedule at all until last year, resulting in a two hour service gap between Reading - Blackwater Valley stations - Guildford.

The railway at the Wokingham end shuts at 0035hrs. If the 2234 runs beyond Shalford it can’t get back to Reading and would end up stabling at Redhill. This would need a long late-night taxi ride home for the traincrew (since GWR no longer hire GTR crew) so it’s not a surprise that it’s been cut really.

(JonathanH beat me to it )

 

[JonathanH]

The railway at the Wokingham end shuts at 0035hrs.

I take it you mean the bit south of Wokingham, given that the 2350 from Waterloo arrives in Reading at 0107. However, I note that this SWR train doesn't have to get to Reading if the line is shut, whereas a GWR train would have to.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I take it you mean the bit south of Wokingham, given that the 2350 from Waterloo arrives in Reading at 0107. However, I note that this SWR train doesn't have to get to Reading if the line is shut, whereas a GWR train would have to.

Yes thanks for clarifying that, I did mean the Aldershot South Jn-Wokingham Jn section.

 

[Baji]

I thought southern would give more information by now- there latest on our railway hasn’t been updated since 31st March 2023 https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/plan-your-journey/latest-on-our-rail-service

 

[PGAT]

I thought southern would give more information by now- there latest on our railway hasn’t been updated since 31st March 2023 https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/plan-your-journey/latest-on-our-rail-service

The link to it has been removed from the timetable website. Presumably they don't intend on updating it

 

[FenMan]

Yes thanks for clarifying that, I did mean the Aldershot South Jn-Wokingham Jn section.

The last Reading-bound NDL service to Wokingham in the December timetable is scheduled to arrive at 00:33, so that fits.

 

[Mamorin]

So I just looked at the Northern timetable and it seems that services to Stoke on Trent are almost back to Hourly 6 days a week which is good to see.

 

[infobleep]

Yes thanks for clarifying that, I did mean the Aldershot South Jn-Wokingham Jn section.

I noticed the 23:37 empty coaching stock from Shalford waits 5 minutes at Guildford for pathing reasons.

What is the reason it can't run in passenger service non stop to Reading? So Shalford, Guildford and Reading. Would the guard be over their hours? I'm assuming the train has a guard.

 

[JonathanH]

What is the reason it can't run in passenger service non stop to Reading?

Is there demand given the 2326 and 0001? It soon catches up the 2326, as far as that is possible given the signalling headways, in any case. There is a four minute pathing allowance at Farnborough and seven minutes at Blackwater.

 

[Jamesrob637]

So I just looked at the Northern timetable and it seems that services to Stoke on Trent are almost back to Hourly 6 days a week which is good to see.

They have been for a while, but don't get many of us started on the Sunday service.

 

[moonarrow458]

I noticed the 23:37 empty coaching stock from Shalford waits 5 minutes at Guildford for pathing reasons.

What is the reason it can't run in passenger service non stop to Reading? So Shalford, Guildford and Reading. Would the guard be over their hours? I'm assuming the train has a guard.

I wonder whether there's a reluctance to convert that particular ECS to passenger service, despite being perfectly feasible to do so, as there may possibly be a longer term aspiration to restore the 2234 Reading to Shalford to Redhill or Gatwick, as previously and in such a scenario the ECS would dissapear and so if the ECS were to run in passenger service then you'd have to withdraw that which would inconvenience any passengers that had come to rely upon it.

 

[FenMan]

Is there demand given the 2326 and 0001? It soon catches up the 2326, as far as that is possible given the signalling headways, in any case. There is a four minute pathing allowance at Farnborough and seven minutes at Blackwater.

Running the empty coaching stock in service back from Guildford to Reading, departing Guildford at 23:45, would provide excellent connections with:-
- 2300 from Waterloo via Woking (arriving Guildford at 2339)
- 2219 from Portsmouth Harbour (2337)
- 2233 from Waterloo via Effingham Junction (2334)
- 2215 coach from Heathrow Bus Station (2328)

Neither of the 2326 and 0006 departures connect with anything useful (the 0006 - timed slightly earlier in the current timetable - used to connect with 2315 Waterloo via Woking*, but SWR have binned that service M-F).

So, yes, running the 2345 in service would be very worthwhile.

*I've used this connection 100s of times when travelling back from London to Blackwater. Since it was binned it's now more convenient for me to travel back via Paddington and Reading, departing Paddington at 2250.

 

[DelW]

Neither of the 2326 and 0006 departures connect with anything useful (the 0006 - timed slightly earlier in the current timetable - used to connect with 2315 Waterloo via Woking*, but SWR have binned that service M-F).

So, yes, running the 2345 in service would be very worthwhile.

*I've used this connection 100s of times when travelling back from London to Blackwater. Since it was binned it's now more convenient for me to travel back via Paddington and Reading, departing Paddington at 2250.

There's an annoying connection failure in the other direction as well. The 23:34 departure from Reading used to connect at Guildford onto the 23:45 Waterloo to Portsmouth. SWR have failed to reinstate that long-standing last train, so there is now no southbound connection off the 23:34 train from Reading.

It was even worse when GWR wasn't running the 22:34 departure, meaning that the last connection to the down Direct left Reading at 21:34. At least that's no longer the case.

 

[takno]

I wonder whether there's a reluctance to convert that particular ECS to passenger service, despite being perfectly feasible to do so, as there may possibly be a longer term aspiration to restore the 2234 Reading to Shalford to Redhill or Gatwick, as previously and in such a scenario the ECS would dissapear and so if the ECS were to run in passenger service then you'd have to withdraw that which would inconvenience any passengers that had come to rely upon it.

Feasible may be an overstatement here. It's not at all clear that the train running empty requires a guard, so one would need to be rostered. In addition it would need to spend a significant amount of time on station stops, not least having to run through platforms at Reading rather than straight round to the depot. The addition of stops also means that it actually needs to run, and moreover run booked time and booked route, and that if it doesn't GWR are on the hook for compensation or rail replacement buses or taxis.

It's never free to turn an empty stock train into a service train, and doing it with the last train of the day can be particularly expensive, often for very little customer value at all.

 

[infobleep]

Feasible may be an overstatement here. It's not at all clear that the train running empty requires a guard, so one would need to be rostered. In addition it would need to spend a significant amount of time on station stops, not least having to run through platforms at Reading rather than straight round to the depot. The addition of stops also means that it actually needs to run, and moreover run booked time and booked route, and that if it doesn't GWR are on the hook for compensation or rail replacement buses or taxis.

It's never free to turn an empty stock train into a service train, and doing it with the last train of the day can be particularly expensive, often for very little customer value at all.

It isn't free but some other ECSs in other parts of the country have been turned into train services for passengers rather than remain as an ECS. So it is possible.

In this case on balance it may not have a good enough case but it should at least be considered.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2023 ==

I've not seen any publicity around the 2 trains hour to Gatwick Airport. Has anyone else seen any publicity? I would have expected a poster promoting it.