Devon & Cornwall mini-franchise to be considered

[richw]

Thirdly, whilst I know it’s popular to say something like “big franchises mean the TOC doesn’t focus on the distant branch lines” (e.g. the oft repeated “rural Lincolnshire lines are suffering because EMT only care about services to St Pancras” argument), I don’t think you can argue that FGW hasn’t improved things on the old “Wessex” franchise during this decade. More DMUs (fighting for a big slice of the “ex Snow Hill/ GOBLIN” cascade of 150s and replacing their 142s) meaning longer trains, improved frequencies, branches that co-ordinate with main line services... they’ve not taken their eye off the ball.

FGW in my view has done a lot of positive on the Cornish branchlines. The service on the Cornish mainline is shocking compared to the branches. Frequency has increased on most if not all of the branches.

 

[yorksrob]

Lastly, there’s the suspicion that Cameron is only saying this because it feeds into the nostalgia of quaint little branch lines, Brunel, the Atlantic Coast Express – the kind of “railways for people who don’t really know about railways” demographic of people who like to read John Betjeman (the kind of UKIP voting pensioners more concerned with the cosy past than the scary future?), rather than any practical devolution. If you want a “mico franchise” then there are better areas to try it (e.g. Heaton depot’s routes to Whitby/ Bishop Auckland/ Carlisle/ Chathill etc?), but where’s the dewy eyed nostalgia in that?

Some of us who enjoy Sir John Betjaman's work heartily approve of the recent renaissance of branchline services in Cornwall and their (relative) integration with main line services. Given that the great man himself believed in the importance of the railway network as a transport system (in contrast to the fantasists of the time who believed twelve lane motorways were the answer to all of our problems) I suspect that he would have approved of it as well.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Some of us who enjoy Sir John Betjaman's work heartily approve of the recent renaissance of branchline services in Cornwall and their (relative) integration with main line services. Given that the great man himself believed in the importance of the railway network as a transport system (in contrast to the fantasists of the time who believed twelve lane motorways were the answer to all of our problems) I suspect that he would have approved of it as well.

Indeed, Iam sure he would. London would have been a poorer place too, but for Betjemans tireless campaigning when BR wanted to close and demolish St. Pancras during the 60s/70s, where would EMT & Eurostar be today without his efforts?

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed, Iam sure he would. London would have been a poorer place too, but for Betjemans tireless campaigning when BR wanted to close and demolish St. Pancras during the 60s/70s, where would EMT & Eurostar be today without his efforts?

Hard to see how they would have fitted into the Cross !

An underground platform in the unused bore of Gasworks tunnel perhaps

 

[Ash Bridge]

Hard to see how they would have fitted into the Cross !

An underground platform in the unused bore of Gasworks tunnel perhaps

And given the grand name of, London Gasworks Tunnel International Station

 

[yorksrob]

And given the grand name of, London Gasworks Tunnel International Station

It's got a certain ring to it

 

[sor]

FGW in my view has done a lot of positive on the Cornish branchlines. The service on the Cornish mainline is shocking compared to the branches. Frequency has increased on most if not all of the branches.

I have to say it's rather tedious when I meet up in Truro with certain friends, and they can basically walk onto the waiting Falmouth branch train and its half-hourly service, while I have to wait around in Truro for the best part of an hour for the mainline train.

Par to Newquay isn't a particularly great line though. I'd consider using it if the timings were sane (last time I checked you can't get to, say Plymouth before about 12pm as the first train towards Par is not until quite late in the morning IIRC)

Hopefully the impending resignalling might move Cornwall closer to having a good rail service

 

[HSTEd]

More likely we will end up with tram-trainification of most of the Branches if the Sheffield scheme is a success.

 

[BestWestern]

Having clicked on that link and read the recycled vacuous garbage for myself my eye strayed down the page to this headline:-
GHOST SHIP FULL OF CANNIBAL RATS DOESN'T CRASH INTO PLYMOUTH
Just had to share that earth-shattering news with you - a classic even by local paper standards.Presumably a full list of places this imaginary ship hasn't crashed into is available on request, starting with Abergavenny.

My apologies for going off-topic

Superb!

 

[The Ham]

I have to say it's rather tedious when I meet up in Truro with certain friends, and they can basically walk onto the waiting Falmouth branch train and its half-hourly service, while I have to wait around in Truro for the best part of an hour for the mainline train.

Par to Newquay isn't a particularly great line though. I'd consider using it if the timings were sane (last time I checked you can't get to, say Plymouth before about 12pm as the first train towards Par is not until quite late in the morning IIRC)

Hopefully the impending resignalling might move Cornwall closer to having a good rail service

If shorter train sets were available which could allow portion working (2 x 5 class 800's for instance) running through services between Newquay to London could overcome some of the problems you raised with that branch. For instance, a train timed to arrive in London at about 12 would be arriving in Plymouth (where it would join up with another portion from Cornwall) after 8:30. Such a service would attract a lot of passengers wanting to travel to Plymouth for work, especially if there was a suitably timed return service in the evening.

Yes, that service would have less seats than if it were run by a HST (a class 800 with 4 coaches has about 60% of the capacity), however by being able to run more services over the day (i.e. more than the current 9 per day) AND by having some services run by a full length train (i.e. 2 x 5 coach class 800's or 1 x 9 coach class 800) having more seats per train (about 18% more than a HST IIRC) overall the number of seats per day would be significantly more.

 

[MarkyT]

I can't see the efficiency benefit of divorcing local train operations from longer distance management in the west. This was one of the reasons for creating the 'greater western' franchise in the first place when wales and west was split up. However there is a possible argument that local services radiating from Exeter might just as legitimately be part of the LSW franchise as the GW one, and this could fit in particularly well with running Waterloo trains through to Plymouth via Okehampton in competition with the GW operator continuing to operate via Totnes. Exeter is a big depot and might gain some efficiency by sharing stock, staff and facilities between LSW main line and local services. West of Newton Abbot and In Cornwall however, I think local service sit better with the GW main line operator. Anyway just my opinion at the moment.

 

[HSTEd]

If shorter train sets were available which could allow portion working (2 x 5 class 800's for instance) running through services between Newquay to London could overcome some of the problems you raised with that branch. For instance, a train timed to arrive in London at about 12 would be arriving in Plymouth (where it would join up with another portion from Cornwall) after 8:30. Such a service would attract a lot of passengers wanting to travel to Plymouth for work, especially if there was a suitably timed return service in the evening.

Yes, that service would have less seats than if it were run by a HST (a class 800 with 4 coaches has about 60% of the capacity), however by being able to run more services over the day (i.e. more than the current 9 per day) AND by having some services run by a full length train (i.e. 2 x 5 coach class 800's or 1 x 9 coach class 800) having more seats per train (about 18% more than a HST IIRC) overall the number of seats per day would be significantly more.

You would still have to overcome the awful speeds on the branch and its very low capacity.

 

[Rapidash]

I think we can safely say this was a hilarious way-to-early April Fools on the part of Cameron and Osborne. Comparing us with the Yank West Coast Only similarity going is that we get some hurricanes!

As someone said elsewhere, if they want to improve on the stirling work that's been taking place over the last few years, they need to set the service levels in the franchise agreement.

The thing which I suspect may become an issue over the next few years will be the differing objectives and interactions between the two types of services in Devon - the metro service with its 5 minute stop starts, increased frequency, and ever expanding usage and the IC services.

It's going to be an interesting few years, what with the new stations cropping up along the line. If Marsh Barton isnt a success by the end of the year its built, I'll buy a hat and eat it.