Perhaps this is something which should have been considered pre-Ordsall Chord. If it's not important to maintain a direct connection from Southport to Manchester Airport, why has the entire Transpennine network been redesigned around facilitating access to it ?
It is difficult for me to see this other than deliberate wrong doing, in breach of codes of conduct. Possibly even misconduct in public office?
What I find shocking also though is the implication that this has been going on with TfGM in the loop. A supposed "transport for the north" partner who has allegedly been informed by dft that the plan is to screw over a town in the neighbouring city region and lie about it in order to quell dissent. https://mobile.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1009399979822247936
And to think those in the Liverpool city region who suggest they believe collusion are scoffed at. It also raises serious questions about the similar messages that went out about HS2 a number of years ago. That now merits investigation.
Disgraceful.
It's these kind of gnawing logic faults which really do suggest to me that the decision making processes/personalities/safeguards for national infrastructure spend need a hard looking at.
Bring back BR in some form or other, maybe not the same as before but state run not for profit
Even a state run commercial enterprise like a railway would be expected to return a significant surplus, otherwise there's less money available for re-investment. Running on a not for profit basis isn't even an options for a nationalised railway as a plan.
My 1959 LMR timetable shows through trains from Southport via Manchester Victoria to Rochdale, Bradford Exchange and Leeds Central.
The Atherton/Calder Valley route was of course the main line of the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway.
Southport-Leeds is a long-standing railway corridor, not a recent DfT invention.
Look at the glorious L&Y tiled map on the wall at Victoria!
This is being raised by a GM MP who was one of the group of three Southport line MP's that successfully campaigned to maintain a peak service from Southport to the Airport.
As the letters rightly pointing out, diversion of services to Victoria is a result of the specification of electric services and there is much lower demand west of Wigan. And the dft took up the franchise bidder extras option of extending Southport services to Leeds despite there being little commercial value. The sarcastic comment by the Dft official is in response to TfGM challenging them over the poor Southport specification, did you ever see anyone at any time ever suggest that the Southport line would be shuttered? Did you ever see this alleged handling strategy in play? The Kirkby line on the other hand there was serious consideration given to curtailing it going back far longer than the refranchising process (to the HLOS for CP5) and just running it as a shuttle which would allow a higher frequency.
More specifically the MP for Wigan. Has Wigan lost services to Bolton? No. Has Wigan lost services to Manchester Piccadilly? No. Have smaller places in the Wigan borough seen an increase in the number of services they have to Southport? Yes. Has Wigan lost services to Manchester Airport? Technically yes but the service between Wigan and Manchester Airport is better than it was a few years ago. So what exactly has she got to complain about?
Are losing services to Bolton yes, its having 1tph transferred from Bolton to the Atherton line.
More specifically the MP for Wigan. Has Wigan lost services to Bolton? No. Has Wigan lost services to Manchester Piccadilly? No. Have smaller places in the Wigan borough seen an increase in the number of services they have to Southport? Yes. Has Wigan lost services to Manchester Airport? Technically yes but the service between Wigan and Manchester Airport is better than it was a few years ago. So what exactly has she got to complain about?
Going into pedant mode here, what about the stations within the borough that maybe have lost those services? Say Gathurst, Appley Bridge (which is as near as dammit to Wigan), and the loss of same platform changeover from Orrell and Pemburton? She also represents those people. Now I've no idea whether those first two were served by Airport services, but you get my point?
Quite!Isn't the real issue here the contempt the DfT have for some northern routes and their passengers? Far too many distracted by a change of route on this thread to realise that.
My 1959 LMR timetable shows through trains from Southport via Manchester Victoria to Rochdale, Bradford Exchange and Leeds Central.
The Atherton/Calder Valley route was of course the main line of the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway.
Southport-Leeds is a long-standing railway corridor, not a recent DfT invention.
Look at the glorious L&Y tiled map on the wall at Victoria!
I don't know much about the service changes but her constiuency includes Gathurst and places whose nearest station is Appley Bridge.More specifically the MP for Wigan. Has Wigan lost services to Bolton? No. Has Wigan lost services to Manchester Piccadilly? No.
There aren't many InterCity routes passengers from Southport would need to travel to Manchester for. They have services to Liverpool and Wigan for InterCity connections and many Lancs residents drive to Preston anyway.I declare a vested interest, but isn't the loss of Southport to the airport less significant to most people than the cutting out of direct Southport to Piccadilly services (except for a couple a day in the peak hours)? Piccadilly is a major hub for national rail connections, whereas in my admittedly limited knowledge Victoria serves far fewer intercity routes.
No, its ultimately going from 3 bolton 2 Atherton (3 in peak), 1 chatmoss
to 2 bolton, 4 Atherton, 1 chatmoss.
We are losing 1tph Wigan-Bolton but gaining 2tph to Atherton in offpeak.
There aren't many InterCity routes passengers from Southport would need to travel to Manchester for. They have services to Liverpool and Wigan for InterCity connections and many Lancs residents drive to Preston anyway.
Going into pedant mode here, what about the stations within the borough that maybe have lost those services? Say Gathurst, Appley Bridge (which is as near as dammit to Wigan), and the loss of same platform changeover from Orrell and Pemburton? She also represents those people. Now I've no idea whether those first two were served by Airport services, but you get my point?
Isn't the real issue here the contempt the DfT have for some northern routes and their passengers? Far too many distracted by a change of route on this thread to realise that.
I declare a vested interest, but isn't the loss of Southport to the airport less significant to most people than the cutting out of direct Southport to Piccadilly services (except for a couple a day in the peak hours)? Piccadilly is a major hub for national rail connections, whereas in my admittedly limited knowledge Victoria serves far fewer intercity routes.
Do Virgin still run an express coach from Southport to Preston which accepts rail tickets?
There's the X2 bus which is a decent enough service so far as "Beeching buses" go. I don't know if you can still through ticket onto it, though. I'd imagine demand for that is low.
What she chose to put across isn't half as shocking as what can be read into/from the material she showed to the public. I don't particularly care about the minutiae of routes, or whether an MP made a charlie of themselves by saying "memory OR RAM" (when memory IS RAM!), etc, etc.Her first tweet and her question to the PM on the subject related to the government knowing two years ago that the timetable change would create chaos, treating passengers and Northern routes with contempt wasn't the primary issue she put across.