DFT scraps plans for national ticket retailer

[jon81uk]

Reasonably priced tickets.

That is an entirely separate issue to the website that the tickets are purchased from.

 

[yorkie]

No, I'm alluding to an experience I had with Trainline a few years back. I once was sold a ticket on a 08:35 York-Plymouth service (I was going as far as Exeter), turns out that the Plymouth service leaves at 08:44 and the Reading service leaves at 08:35. Quite a few people had this issue (most notably people going to Bristol) and there was a long queue at the LNER Information desk, ended up having to get the 08:35 to Birmingham and change onto the Plymouth service.

So you do concede that actually RDG (i.e. the TOCs) release data for trains which are shown as running in the data feed but the TOCs subsequently delete, and that this can happen regardless of booking site?

That is an entirely separate issue to the website that the tickets are purchased from.

Indeed, and requires a new thread in the appropriate section. I am looking forward to reading how it will work, as no-one has yet come up with a viable solution, but I am open to suggestions!

 

[YorkRailFan]

So you do concede that actually RDG (i.e. the TOCs) release data for trains which are shown as running in the data feed but the TOCs subsequently delete, and that this can happen regardless of booking site?

Yes, yes I do.

 

[Krokodil]

But you are proposing changes which would have that effect.

What changes have I proposed and how would they have that effect? As far as I recall I've just suggested simplifying ticketing (and not the LNER way).

Anyway, I found this thread from last month, I put some ideas in there.

A proposed update of rail ticket pricing in the UK video

I stumbled upon this on YouTube about a suggestion to revamp the ticketing cost structure in the UK basing it more on distance travelled which makes things simpler and clearer for passengers. It looks reasonable to my untrained eye but wondered what experienced people on here think about it...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Adam Williams]

When was this, and what was the issue? If you booked through us, and are unable to get any response from customer services, I'd be happy to see if I can give someone a prod.

October.

If the customer consents, I'd be happy to summarise the gist of their complaint here and some of their misconceptions. The case was handled in line with the service's Ts and Cs, in any case.

I may judge that based on an interaction I'm about to have...will post details when I see how it's handled

I trust you received your refund without any fuss.

 

[takno]

October.

If the customer consents, I'd be happy to summarise the gist of their complaint here and some of their misconceptions. The case was handled in line with the service's Ts and Cs, in any case.

"October" is already too much information shared in a public forum. you've really *got* to get your privacy management right.

 

[Adam Williams]

"October" is already too much information shared in a public forum. you've really *got* to get your privacy management right.

There is a perfectly valid legitimate interests basis in responding to a review aired publicly online. Confirming the month of the incident has a minimal privacy impact, at best.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I trust you received your refund without any fuss.

I think you might have worked out which one it was based on my other question (or just knowing what my real name is)

Yep, all done, cheers. Very quick.

 

[takno]

There is a perfectly valid legitimate interests basis in responding to a review aired publicly online. Confirming the month of the incident has a minimal privacy impact, at best.

My feedback on your ongoing customer service is just... wow. I'm enthusiastic not to deal with you guys and your T&C's ever again

 

[yorkie]

My feedback on your ongoing customer service is just... wow. I'm enthusiastic not to deal with you guys and your T&C's ever again

And what was the problem? You're complaining, but not prepared to say.

I am assuming, unless I hear otherwise, it was actually a problem of the TOC's making.

By all means take the view that you can criticise but the details cannot be posted, but I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. My point is that it's a good thing that people have choice. It sounds like you are better off booking elsewhere, as you value getting more back in delay repay, cashback etc. Others may take a different view, hence why the choice is a good thing.

 

[takno]

And what was the problem? You're complaining, but not prepared to say.

I am assuming, unless I hear otherwise, it was actually a problem of the TOC's making.

By all means take the view that you can criticise but the details cannot be posted, but I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. My point is that it's a good thing that people have choice. It sounds like you are better off booking elsewhere, as you value getting more back in delay repay, cashback etc. Others may take a different view, hence why the choice is a good thing.

I don't object to trainsplit existing, and I was quite keen to use them. All I intended to say was that I was personally quite disappointed, and I thought your claim about excellent customer service was a bit much. I was surprised by how lacking in pleasantness or helpfulness it was, how much they fell back onto stony-faced declarations about T&C's, and how they were completely unable to even accept what I said as feedback and move on. Frankly I think they've rather proved the point here.

You are absolutely entitled to want different things from a retailer or customer service, but I really should be able to come on here and express an opinion without having to go back into it with the company. I've moved on, thanks.

 

[infobleep]

I find the best combination for me is this forums ticketing site and my own research, making use of the routing guide.

Just using this forums site won't save me as much but then just doing it myself won't save me as much either. So I combined both.

For example going to Manchester. I know certain things I can do to redcue my costs and some of these don't show up on the forums ticketing site.

So I use my knowledge and then use the forums site for the bits it can do.

 

[sheff1]

Making the railways a bit more efficient and a bit less wasteful is a good thing.

Well this government's actions result in a less efficient and more wasteful railway.

 

[kw12]

Are you aware of how little RDG pay in commission to retailers these days?

If anyone thinks the commission alone can cover the costs, then I challenge them to say how it would work, and to come up with a website which would achieve that...

The ORR recently reviewed how online retailers present fees. It found that 12 of the 19 third party retailers it reviewed charge fees.

http://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-12/online-ticket-fees-transparency-report.pdf

"Of the 19 TPRs that we reviewed, we found that:
seven did not charge any booking or finder’s fees".

Thus, over a third of the third party retailers have websites and/or apps whose costs are covered by commission (plus fees for any other services they offer).

Table B.2 of the ORR report shows that these seven retailers are: MyTrains, Railonline, Red Spotted Hanky, SeatFrog, Trip.com, Uber, Virgin Trains Ticketing

 

[YorkRailFan]

The ORR recently reviewed how online retailers present fees. It found that 12 of the 19 third party retailers it reviewed charge fees.



Thus, over a third of the third party retailers have websites and/or apps whose costs are covered by commission (plus fees for any other services they offer).

Table B.2 of the ORR report shows that these seven retailers are: MyTrains, Railonline, Red Spotted Hanky, SeatFrog, Trip.com, Uber, Virgin Trains Ticketing

Already being discussed in this thread

 

[takno]

The ORR recently reviewed how online retailers present fees. It found that 12 of the 19 third party retailers it reviewed charge fees.



Thus, over a third of the third party retailers have websites and/or apps whose costs are covered by commission (plus fees for any other services they offer).

Table B.2 of the ORR report shows that these seven retailers are: MyTrains, Railonline, Red Spotted Hanky, SeatFrog, Trip.com, Uber, Virgin Trains Ticketing

The report says that they didn't charge booking ot finders fees. I suspect it's the fulfillment costs which make it most difficult to turn a profit on the commission alone, so comission plus fulfillment fees might work reasonably well.

Beyond that there's a scale problem, because you need to pay several tens of thousands in costs to get set up on the ticketing platforms, the substantial development costs of writing and maintaining a compliant platform and keeping it competitive in a fast-moving landscape, customer service staff of whatever quality, and significant spend on servers etc.

This all makes it a lot harder for boutique operators like trainsplit to make a profit without charging high fees, and provides a great opportunity for a venture-backed firm like Trainline to spend on advertising and rake it all back in excessive fees from the suckers they've netted in.

From the industry's point of view the main question is what maximises some combination of operator/DfT revenue, passenger numbers and customer satisfaction. I don't know whether that's achieved through a higher comission and ban on additional fees, a ban on third party sales, caps on fees, transparent fees, or whether the current system is optimal I don't know. It all seems like a good thing for the regulator to look into though.

 

[yorkie]

The ORR recently reviewed how online retailers present fees. It found that 12 of the 19 third party retailers it reviewed charge fees.



Thus, over a third of the third party retailers have websites and/or apps whose costs are covered by commission (plus fees for any other services they offer).

Table B.2 of the ORR report shows that these seven retailers are: MyTrains, Railonline, Red Spotted Hanky, SeatFrog, Trip.com, Uber, Virgin Trains Ticketing

None of this demonstrates what I said is in any way incorrect. Also, by including SeatFrog in that list, I would suggest demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding regarding what I was saying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

None of this demonstrates what I said is in any way incorrect. Also, by including SeatFrog in that list, I would suggest demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding regarding what I was saying.

Seatfrog is an absolute nuisance now it's doing things like adding cheaper ways to change Advances rather than the normal channels.

I see no great issue with it being used to flog cheap First Class upgrades where there's more capacity than you'll sell the regular ways, but now it's semi-officially stretching into things that should be possible at the same cost at all sales channels.