Probably another question to ask in a separate topic really. But in the early days did mk3s ever appear on more localised services? The sort of service with say a 31 or 37 load 4? Or a TPE service? Basically anything non-intercity!
How the 150s were thought of as suitable for such journeys is absolutely mind boggling. To think as well that 150001 stood in for LHCS on a number of them all across the country!
Thanks Hexagon.
I actually remember sitting on the platform at St David’s as a young teenager in about 1986 frantically trying to write the numbers down of these mk3s with actual names. I’d never seen such a thing!
About a year later I was lucky enough to see the mk2 Pullman set somewhere (not down here though that’s for sure).
Straying slightly off topic but there’s a very old thread here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/pullman-coaches.31111/
With an excellent post from Helvellyn explaining a bit about the mk2 and mk3 Pullmans.
I was 11 or 12 doing exactly the same at Exeter on a summer Saturday with them being hauled (from memory) by a pair of 31’s.
Also recall a Mk 3 set did a rose grove to Paignton and then ran ECS back to oxley in the afternoon or evening.
Few years ago and very good memories
I think the loco being on the south end of the rake was more to do with ease of swapping locos from Crown Point at Norwich.156s from May to September. Even seen a photo of a Queen Street-Aberdeen diverted via Cumbernauld formed of a 150/2 leading a 156!
AFAIK the DBSOs remained Standard Class under Anglia, they are the reason why Greater Anglia Mk3 sets are unusual in having the DVT at the Standard Class end and the loco against First Class with the trains being propelled out of London rather than into.
Pre-Mk3 there were about 4 different Anglia formations, these are what I have for 2001:
2 Mk2f FO, Mk3a RFM, 3 Mk2e/f TSO, 2 Mk2f high-density TSO, DBSO
2*FO, RFB, 3 Mk2e/f TSO, 2 Mk2f high-density TSO, DBSO
2 Mk2f FO, Mk2e FO(T), 3 Mk2e/f TSO, 2 high-density Mk2f TSO, DBSO
2 Mk2f FO, 6 Mk2e/f TSO (mix of 64 and 74-seat versions), DBSO
I think the loco being on the south end of the rake was more to do with ease of swapping locos from Crown Point at Norwich.
Absolutely.I was 11 or 12 doing exactly the same at Exeter on a summer Saturday with them being hauled (from memory) by a pair of 31’s.
Also recall a Mk 3 set did a rose grove to Paignton and then ran ECS back to oxley in the afternoon or evening.
Few years ago and very good memories
Yes. The big compatibility change was from 1967, when the Mk 2a stock (and thereafter) came with air brakes. Everything could run with everything else, and did, provided the brakes were compatible. There was actually very little dual-braked stock, it being a mechanical nuisance to arrange, and a lot of Mk 1 refreshment vehicles and vans were converted to air braking.Yes. So long as all stock had air or dual brakes anything from mk1 through to mk3b could run in the same rake.
To summarise some of the exceptions: there was a Mk3 set with a Mk2f FO at one point in the early 1980s standing in for a fire damaged Mk3 and Mk3 sets with Mk2d TSOT pre-roll out of push-pull to Aberdeen (after a very brief use of Mk1 RMBs). You had the odd mixed Mk3/Mk2d/e/f sets soon after push-pull was rolled out fully on Glasgow-Aberdeen in May 1985, and often mixed sets of Mk2f and Mk3 in early 1990 when vehicles were being released for InterCity. There were also 2 Mk3 diagrams on Glasgow-Aberdeen from 1980 right until the end of push-pull.
Admittedly the mixed sets were usually on Aberdeens except right at the end.
I don't remember the Mk 3 sets being all that regular on the Aberdeens but I was pretty young at the time admittedly
It was not unknown to see a Mark 3 sleeper in a push-pull formation—I think this was a balancing move to return the sleeper coach which went north on the last train from Glasgow
Also in the early days of the Aberdeen push-pulls they had a Mark 1 BG next to the loco.
Not totally on topic, but I seem to remember seeing Anglia using a MK1 restaurant vehicle in its MK2e/f sets until the very early 2000s.
Yes I think your memory is correct although I was remembering it as a mk1 RMB miniature buffet vehicle, surely one of the last if not the last mk1 catering cars in regular TOC service?
This certainly ties in with what I remember. As a teenager I used to do the Coventry to Birmingham NS run regularly (this would have been about 1980 give or take a year or two). I seem to recall the bulk of the rake were Mk3s but there nearly always seemed to be an older buffet car - although whether Mk1 or Mk2 I wouldn't have known.Until the start of 110mph running a full Mk3 set was rare with the exception of the mk 1 BG.Even a full Mk3 set would have a Mk2f first used as the Restaurant.I remember this was deliberate as it cost Travellers Fare less to use a Mk2f for some reason.
I think it was concluded in this thread that Anglia retained their last Mk1 RBR until 2000: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-loco-hauled-sets-after-privatisation.157570/
Ah yes; thanks, I'll have to confess to being a bit too lazy at the moment regarding doing a detailed search on the subject.
although whether Mk1 or Mk2 I wouldn't have known.
They never became DBFO,s, Anglia had them reworked but they remained standard classThe class 47 push-pull sets for Edinburgh-Glasgow and other Scottish IC routes were mixed Mark 2/3 from the off, given that they were a rake of mark 3s with a mark 2 DBSO. From what I can find, when the DBSOs went to Anglia (and became DBFOs) the formations there were mark 2 with (mainly) mark 3 catering vehicles- the entire British Rail mark 2 build had a tiny number of catering vehicles
So tiny, that precisely none were built as catering vehicles.the entire British Rail mark 2 build had a tiny number of catering vehicles
So tiny, that precisely none were built as catering vehicles.
wikipedia lists carriages 500-507 as being built as "Pullman Kitchen First", in the original Mark 2 batch (not even 2A)So tiny, that precisely none were built as catering vehicles.
wikipedia lists carriages 500-507 as being built as "Pullman Kitchen First", in the original Mark 2 batch (not even 2A)