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Different Driver Depot, Route and Traction cards

craigybagel

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Stratford:

710 & 378
East Ham depot - Upney Jct
Barking - Gospel Oak
Stratford-Richmond
Willesden Junction-Clapham Junction

Some Euston drivers also sign GPO-BKG
Thanks. Looking back through my LO listings I seem to be missing the Willesden Junction - Clapham Junction for any depot, could you confirm which depots sign that please?


Worcester no longer sign 153. Only Worcester,Wolverhampton & Shrewsbury will be learning 196’s. Snow Hill,Leamington & New St (as it stands) will not be learning them. Also Snow Hill & Leamington no longer sign Great Malvern, only go as far as the Worcester stations.
Thanks for that. I'm surprised that New Street won't be signing 196s as they only recently (re)added Shrewsbury to their route card, are they losing that work again?
 
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newtownmgr

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Thanks. Looking back through my LO listings I seem to be missing the Willesden Junction - Clapham Junction for any depot, could you confirm which depots sign that please?



Thanks for that. I'm surprised that New Street won't be signing 196s as they only recently (re)added Shrewsbury to their route card, are they losing that work again?
Shrewsbury work was only temporary at New St whilst Shrewsbury was short of drivers & was only the first & last from/to Birmingham with only 1 link signing it. Many drivers no longer sign the route & some of those that do,don’t sign 170’s anymore. Work going back as Shrewsbury is very nearly back up to strength. The cost involved for teaching New St drivers the 196 is deemed uneconomical for what was just 2 jobs & a few ECS jobs to/from Tyseley. Worcester & Shrewsbury do over half the Tyseley moves as it is. New St is going to have enough on its plate with learning 730’s as it is. Obviously this is all subject to change but from what i can gather unlikely to in the current climate. If the 196’s have any work on the snow hill lines it will be with Worcester crews,as was the 153/170 work.
 

craigybagel

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Euston, Stratford, Watford and Willesden
Thanks, duly updated.
Shrewsbury work was only temporary at New St whilst Shrewsbury was short of drivers & was only the first & last from/to Birmingham with only 1 link signing it. Many drivers no longer sign the route & some of those that do,don’t sign 170’s anymore. Work going back as Shrewsbury is very nearly back up to strength. The cost involved for teaching New St drivers the 196 is deemed uneconomical for what was just 2 jobs & a few ECS jobs to/from Tyseley. Worcester & Shrewsbury do over half the Tyseley moves as it is. New St is going to have enough on its plate with learning 730’s as it is. Obviously this is all subject to change but from what i can gather unlikely to in the current climate. If the 196’s have any work on the snow hill lines it will be with Worcester crews,as was the 153/170 work.
Ah ok thanks for that, seems pretty sensible.
 

Val3ntine

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Stratford:

710 & 378
East Ham depot - Upney Jct
Barking - Gospel Oak
Stratford-Richmond
Willesden Junction-Clapham Junction

Some Euston drivers also sign GPO-BKG


Soon to sign Romford to Upminster also for Stratford drivers the handover is just delayed due to covid.
Also all Stratford/Euston drivers sign Gospel Oak - Barking
 

387star

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Do Southern BRIGHTON Drivers sign the Arun Valley Line ?
I ask as during engineering works I see red 387s deployed on the route. Not sure Barnham Drivers sign 387s...
 

AEnnis

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What do the links mean? any ideas?

Do Southern BRIGHTON Drivers sign the Arun Valley Line ?
I ask as during engineering works I see red 387s deployed on the route. Not sure Barnham Drivers sign 387s...
Some Barnham drivers do but i also believe that BTN staff sign the Arun Valley so not needed as much

@craigybagel Some changes for the SWR one, Bournemouth don't sign Cosham/Farlington Junctions - Portsmouth Harbour, Fratton don't sign Southampton Central to Salisbury via Redbridge.
 
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craigybagel

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@craigybagel Some changes for the SWR one, Bournemouth don't sign Cosham/Farlington Junctions - Portsmouth Harbour, Fratton don't sign Southampton Central to Salisbury via Redbridge.
Without giving away too much, I had a PM about that last year. Bournemouth had indeed lost Pompey work many years ago but were due to regain some last summer. I will remove Fratton's Salisbury work though as I have also heard similar about them not signing that anymore. It also seems like a good time to delete 442s now that that won't be happening.
 

TEW

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Without giving away too much, I had a PM about that last year. Bournemouth had indeed lost Pompey work many years ago but were due to regain some last summer. I will remove Fratton's Salisbury work though as I have also heard similar about them not signing that anymore. It also seems like a good time to delete 442s now that that won't be happening.
Bournemouth certainly were going to learn Portsmouth, largely connected to the 442s. Whether that will still go ahead now I don't know. I don't know how much route learning had been done before Covid.
 

craigybagel

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Bournemouth certainly were going to learn Portsmouth, largely connected to the 442s. Whether that will still go ahead now I don't know. I don't know how much route learning had been done before Covid.
Given SWR have made a big deal about the 458s being maintained in Bournemouth presumably the situation is still the same - just with different traction. But maybe that's too logical an assumption given this is the railway we're talking about :lol: I'll leave it in for now anyway until I get confirmation if it's no longer going ahead.
 

iphone76

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A quick update for Crossrail / Elizabeth line showing the current training plan for this year. (345s now cover both FLU and RLU as most drivers are now passed out on both)

Old Oak Common - Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Reading/Heathrow. 345 only.
Maidenhead - Abbey Wood to Reading/Heathrow. 345 only.

Abbey Wood - Abbey Wood to Heathrow. 345 only.
Plumstead - Abbey Wood to Heathrow. 345 only.

Ilford - Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Paddington plus ECS to Old Oak Common Depot. 345/315 (due to leave soon). Plus a few also sign 710s for Romford/Upminster but due to be overtaken by London Overground.
Gidea Park - Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Paddington plus ECS to Old Oak Common Depot 345/315 (due to leave soon)
Shenfield - Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Hayes and Harlington. 345/315 (due to leave soon)

This means that currently Old Oak depot will be the only depot to sign the entire route for the time being.
Although Shenfield will sign the ETCS system, they have no diagramed work past Hayes.
 
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AEnnis

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Bournemouth certainly were going to learn Portsmouth, largely connected to the 442s. Whether that will still go ahead now I don't know. I don't know how much route learning had been done before Covid.
The 458s will be the same as the 442s were from route and traction knowledge with only Fratton, Bournemouth signing them and possibly Basingstoke, Woking, and Guildford, and Bournemouth crew most likely won't sign down to Portsmouth as SWR have a backlog of route/traction learning to do already and they won't want that extra pressure when it is not needed. And another thing to take into account is Waterloo depot will have to sign the 458s again or at least have some training on them once modified so imagine that many drivers to train its a logistical nightmare just like the 443s were.
 

159147

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Hi, is there one of these route cards for Aylesbury, Chiltern railway Arriva?

Also, could someone help me understand them, take this one for example below, does that mean these are the route the drivers take, so for the fist one, birm to wolves then what, is that journey done then, what happens to the train from that point on etc, or does it then carry on from wolv to Liverpool? if so why not just have the route card birm to Liverpool. sorry if this sounds daft and any clarity would be greatly appreciated on how these route cards work and mean and what the trains are doing.



Routes:
Birmingham - Wolverhampton
Wolverhampton - Liverpool (link dependent)
Birmingham - Coventry
Coventry - Northampton (link dependent)
Birmingham - Walsall - Rugeley
Lichfield - Birmingham - Redditch/Bromsgrove Cross City Line
Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury (link dependent)
 

Flange Squeal

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Hi, is there one of these route cards for Aylesbury, Chiltern railway Arriva?

Also, could someone help me understand them, take this one for example below, does that mean these are the route the drivers take, so for the fist one, birm to wolves then what, is that journey done then, what happens to the train from that point on etc, or does it then carry on from wolv to Liverpool? if so why not just have the route card birm to Liverpool. sorry if this sounds daft and any clarity would be greatly appreciated on how these route cards work and mean and what the trains are doing.

Routes:
Birmingham - Wolverhampton
Wolverhampton - Liverpool (link dependent)
The reason Birmingham to Liverpool is split is because only some drivers at the depot sign beyond Wolverhampton to/from Liverpool, once they progress into the higher roster link(s) over time and as vacancies arise.
 

159147

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The reason Birmingham to Liverpool is split is because only some drivers at the depot sign beyond Wolverhampton to/from Liverpool, once they progress into the higher roster link(s) over time and as vacancies arise.
oh ok i see, thankyou, so a driver might drive from birm to wolvs, then get off that train and drive another train from wolves to Shrewsbury or back to birm?

thankyou.
 

Watershed

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Hi, is there one of these route cards for Aylesbury, Chiltern railway Arriva?
Yes, there's one for Aylesbury depot under the Chiltern Railways spoiler tab. Here it is again:
Traction:
165,168
Routes:
London Marylebone - Birmingham Snow Hill
London - Aylesbury Vale via Amersham
Princes Risborough - Aylesbury
Bicester - Oxford
South Ruislip - West Ealing (link 1 only)
Though I would be surprised if many people still sign the latter, with the minimal service that Chiltern have operated to West Ealing over the last 15 months!

Also, could someone help me understand them, take this one for example below, does that mean these are the route the drivers take, so for the fist one, birm to wolves then what, is that journey done then, what happens to the train from that point on etc, or does it then carry on from wolv to Liverpool? if so why not just have the route card birm to Liverpool. sorry if this sounds daft and any clarity would be greatly appreciated on how these route cards work and mean and what the trains are doing.



Routes:
Birmingham - Wolverhampton
Wolverhampton - Liverpool (link dependent)
Birmingham - Coventry
Coventry - Northampton (link dependent)
Birmingham - Walsall - Rugeley
Lichfield - Birmingham - Redditch/Bromsgrove Cross City Line
Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury (link dependent)
The list simply indicates the possible routes that a driver at that depot might work over. It doesn't show what drivers do on a given day (there's no way you'd manage to fit in a trip to all those destinations in a 10 hour shift!). It's the diagrams which show that - you can see some examples here.

A link is a 'subsection' of a depot, so the phrase "link dependent" means that only some of the drivers at that depot sign a route. Big depots like Birmingham are split into several links - a big reason for that is simply that it's easier and quicker to replace people who leave, retire etc.

Let's say a driver in the top link (with the most/best routes) retires; by having a link structure you can replace their vacancy with someone from a lower link - who you only have to teach one or two extra routes. And you can replace the person from the lower link with someone off the street (or from another TOC) more quickly, because there are fewer routes to teach them in the 'starter' link.

For depots that are both big, and have extensive route/traction cards (e.g. Waterloo), you also need a link structure to make sure that everyone works over each route/traction frequently enough to maintain their knowledge. It expires, at the latest, after 6 months but drivers can (and will) ask for refresher training sooner than that if they're not 100% confident any more, so you don't want to leave it that long if you can avoid it.

As for why not everyone signs Liverpool - WMT have a local stopping service between Walsall and Wolverhampton (via Birmingham). So when the driver gets to Wolverhampton they might be relieved and take a break, or they could simply drive back to Birmingham/Walsall. Hence there is plenty of work for them just as far as Wolverhampton.

That said, I believe some of the Liverpool services do have crew changes at Wolverhampton.
 
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craigybagel

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A quick update for Crossrail / Elizabeth line showing the current training plan for this year. (345s now cover both FLU and RLU as most drivers are now passed out on both)

Old Oak Common - Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Reading/Heathrow. 345 only.
Maidenhead - Abbey Wood to Reading/Heathrow. 345 only.

Abbey Wood - Abbey Wood to Heathrow. 345 only.
Plumstead - Abbey Wood to Heathrow. 345 only.

Ilford - Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Paddington plus ECS to Old Oak Common Depot. 345/315 (due to leave soon). Plus a few also sign 710s for Romford/Upminster but due to be overtaken by London Overground.
Gidea Park - Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Paddington plus ECS to Old Oak Common Depot 345/315 (due to leave soon)
Shenfield - Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Hayes and Harlington. 345/315 (due to leave soon)

This means that currently Old Oak depot will be the only depot to sign the entire route for the time being.
Although Shenfield will sign the ETCS system, they have no diagramed work past Hayes.
Cheers, all updated.
The 458s will be the same as the 442s were from route and traction knowledge with only Fratton, Bournemouth signing them and possibly Basingstoke, Woking, and Guildford, and Bournemouth crew most likely won't sign down to Portsmouth as SWR have a backlog of route/traction learning to do already and they won't want that extra pressure when it is not needed. And another thing to take into account is Waterloo depot will have to sign the 458s again or at least have some training on them once modified so imagine that many drivers to train its a logistical nightmare just like the 443s were.
Fair enough - I've removed the Portsmouth branch from the Bournemouth route cards, and added 458s to Bournemouth, Fratton and Waterloo with a "training soon" caveat and link dependant in Waterloo's case (given Portsmouth and Bournemouth work at that depot is link dependant, presumably so will 458 knowledge?).
The reason Birmingham to Liverpool is split is because only some drivers at the depot sign beyond Wolverhampton to/from Liverpool, once they progress into the higher roster link(s) over time and as vacancies arise.
Got to keep those junior drivers at New Street on the Cross City where they belong!
Yes, there's one for Aylesbury depot under the Chiltern Railways spoiler tab. Here it is again:

Though I would be surprised if many people still sign the latter, with the minimal service that Chiltern have operated to West Ealing over the last 15 months!
Indeed, I suspect that when we all eventually get out of this there may well be some trimming of less used knowledge at some depots. At my own depot, more then half of the more senior drivers have already lost one of our diversionary routes (that normally is reliant on cab rides with another TOC to maintain competency), with more falling off all the time - and we've a load of Post Qualifieds who've never learned it to begin with. There's a lot of talk of that knowledge being allowed to lapse permanently, and I can see that happening all over the country!

That said, in the case of Aylesbury, a bit of route learning might be easier than all the paperwork it would take to end a parliamentary service......
That said, I believe some of the Liverpool services do have crew changes at Wolverhampton.
Quite likely, Wolverhampton has a depot who's staff work some of the Liverpool services.
 

Watershed

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Indeed, I suspect that when we all eventually get out of this there may well be some trimming of less used knowledge at some depots. At my own depot, more then half of the more senior drivers have already lost one of our diversionary routes (that normally is reliant on cab rides with another TOC to maintain competency), with more falling off all the time - and we've a load of Post Qualifieds who've never learned it to begin with. There's a lot of talk of that knowledge being allowed to lapse permanently, and I can see that happening all over the country!
It's unfortunate as it will mean a significant loss in operational flexibility (particularly during disruption) at a lot of places. Still, that's been the trend for the last 2 or 3 decades, so not really a surprise!
 

ER158715

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Another wee update. There is a link of drivers in Inverness (ScotRail) who sign class 08 shunter for the Mk3 movements.
 

Galvanize

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Thames link

Cricklewood also sign

London blackfriarsto London Bridge
That makes sense, certain Luton to Rainham services particularly late at night seem to do a crew handover on the platforms at London Bridge High Level, the ones that go as far as West Hampstead then presumably empties to Cricklewood sidings!
 

Horizon22

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Are you sure? I didn't think they did.

I think the whole Thameslink section needs some minor edits as crew changes now take place at London Bridge vice Blackfriars after the May' 18 fiasco to prevent the line being blocked.
 

craigybagel

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I think the whole Thameslink section needs some minor edits as crew changes now take place at London Bridge vice Blackfriars after the May' 18 fiasco to prevent the line being blocked.
That seems sensible. I'll be happy to do an edit if full details are confirmed. I know there's a few small little tweaks I need to sit down at my computer and make soon anyway.
 

Galvanize

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Ashford (AD) Thameslink Drivers are currently Route learning (in Training Bubbles given current circumstances)
London Kings Cross-Welwyn Garden City including Welwyn Sidings and the Hornsey flyover (but not the depot) in preparation for a Peak hour Sevenoaks-Welwyn Garden City service expected to start next May.
 

43066

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Some minor amends for EMR.

No depots sign HSTs as of May ‘21 timetable change.

Kettering is now an active depot. They do not sign Manton diversion, but do sign Cauldwell depot, Bedford (light maintenance on the 360 fleet is done here).
 

westcoaster

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Ashford (AD) Thameslink Drivers are currently Route learning (in Training Bubbles given current circumstances)
London Kings Cross-Welwyn Garden City including Welwyn Sidings and the Hornsey flyover (but not the depot) in preparation for a Peak hour Sevenoaks-Welwyn Garden City service expected to start next May.
And welwyn drivers are learning sevenoaks and orpington.

Are you sure? I didn't think they did.
Yep 100% as already posted they do the early/late crew changes on the rainham services. They also do a few trips upto bedford/luton and back down.

Also they have booked work into low level, late saturday night and early sunday morning trains.
 

kmbfwpa

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Update for GWR Plymouth GWR Drivers.

They sign Plymouth to Par, not through to Penzance.
They also do not sign Newton Abbot to Paignton.
Traction is 150, 158, 800/2

The rest is correct

Update to my update. Plymouth GWR drivers now sign 255 (2+4 hst)

Plymouth HSS drivers no longer sign Liskeard to Looe
 

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