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Different Guard Depot, Route and Traction cards
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What do you want updating?
The list of TOCs and depots on this thread has not been updated for several months despite people posting updates - including mine about 313s being withdrawn at Southern.
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The moderator team can do this. I will update it all over the coming days.
Excellent. Thanks very much. It's a really useful thread.
Undiscovered
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May as well knock off the 170s from all WMT depots while you're at it.
AidenE
Member
If you need SWR stuff let me know and I’ll have a look I work for them so I’ll see if anything needs changing for them
The list says Strawberry Hill guards sign East Putney. As I understand it this route knowledge has been removed from this depot. Maybe you can confirm?
InkyScrolls
Member
I would suggest changing Skipton to 'Leeds to Carlisle, Morecambe and Lancaster', as they sign Bare Lane Jct. to both Hest Bank Jct. and Morecambe South Jct.
Also all Northern conductors that have booked work on either 195s or 331s sign both traction.
Also all Northern conductors that have booked work on either 195s or 331s sign both traction.
Urban Gateline
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for SWR - Staines don't sign 707 or 456 any longer!
Indeed all 456s have now been withdrawn from South Western Railway!
442s have also been withdrawn from South Western Railway.
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AidenE
Member
Some crew still sign 707s I believe
I was looking into this myself I’m not sure
This is what I can get for SWR at the moment the stock is changed to remove 442s and 456s and the depot which i definitely know will sign 458s have been put in as I believe it’s not confirmed which will be signing them exactly but Fratton and Bournemouth definitely will be. I have also removed the link dependent stuff off as-well on the routes I know all the depot sign it’s probably not 100% correct but I’ll update it over the course of the week so here you go.
SWR have two types of guards, “Metro Guards” and “Commercial Guards” the only difference between the two types is that commercial guards are commercial trained meaning that they can sell tickets whereas Metro guards can’t. Some depots have a mixture of Metro and Commercial guards which means at some depots Commercial Guards sign some additional routes
Basingstoke:
Traction:158/159, 444, 450
Waterloo to Southampton Central via Surbiton and Feltham (including Hounslow loop and Weybridge bay)
Eastleigh to Portsmouth Harbour
Pirbright Junction to Alton
Fareham to Southampton
Wimbledon to Wandsworth Town via East Putney
Reading to Basingstoke (Link 2 only)
Basingstoke to Salisbury
Bournemouth:
Traction: 444, 450, 458/4 in the future
Weymouth - Waterloo via Basingstoke and Haslemere.
Brockenhurst - Lymington Pier
Cosham/Farlington Jct - Portsmouth Harbour
Farnham:
Traction: 444, 450, 455, 458. 701 in the future.
Waterloo to Alton
Waterloo to Basingstoke
Waterloo to Guildford (via Cobham)
Waterloo to Haslemere (via Worplesdon)
Waterloo to Reading (via Hounslow & Richmond)
Aldershot to Ascot
Aldershot to Guildford
Whitton Curve
Fratton:
Traction:444, 450, 458/4 in the future
Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo via Basingstoke and Haslemere.
Fareham to Southampton via Netley
St Denys to Eastleigh
Southampton to Poole
Guildford to Surbiton via Cobham
Guildford:
Traction: 444, 450, 455, 701 in the future.
Waterloo to Alton
Waterloo to Chessington South
Waterloo to Dorking
Waterloo to Guildford (via Cobham)
Waterloo to Guildford (via Epsom)
Waterloo to Hampton Court
Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (via Worplesdon)
Aldershot to Ascot
Aldershot to Guildford
Ryde St John’s Road (Isle of Wight):
Traction: 484
Ryde to Shanklin
Salisbury:
Traction: 158/159
Waterloo to Exeter St Davids via Andover and Southampton Central
Romsey to Eastleigh via Chandler’s Ford
Salisbury to Westbury (diversionary route to Yeovil via Castle Cary)
Basingstoke to Reading
Strawberry Hill:
Traction: 444, 450, 455, 458, 707. 701 in future.
Waterloo to Woking
Waterloo to Hampton Court
Waterloo to Chessington South
Waterloo to Guildford via Cobham
Waterloo to Shepperton via Richmond and Wimbledon, and the Kingston Loop
Waterloo to Reading via Richmond and Hounslow, and the Hounslow Loop
Staines to Windsor
Virginia Water to Weybridge
East Putney (Wandsworth Town to Wimbledon)
Strawberry Hill Depot
Staines:
Traction: 444, 450, 455, 458, 707. 701 in future.
Waterloo to Woking
Waterloo to Hampton Court
Kingston Loop
Hounslow Loop
Waterloo to Reading via Richmond and Hounslow
Staines to Windsor
Virginia Water to Weybridge
Waterloo:
Traction:
444, 450, 455, 458, 707. 701 in future. 158/159 Commercial Guards Only, Link Dependant.
Waterloo to Guildford via Cobham, Epsom, Woking
Waterloo to Hampton Court
Waterloo to Dorking
Waterloo to Chessington South
Waterloo to Shepperton via Richmond and Wimbledon, and the Kingston Loop
Waterloo to Windsor via Richmond and Hounslow, and the Hounslow Loop.
Staines to Weybridge/Byfleet & New Haw
Virginia Water to Reading
Woking to Poole (Commercial Guards Only)
Woking to Alton (Commercial Guards Only)
Guildford to Portsmouth Harbour (Commercial Guards Only)
Basingstoke to Salisbury (Commercial Guards Only, Link Dependant)
Clapham Yard (Non-Commercial Guards Only)
Wimbledon Park Depot (Non-Commercial Guards Only)
Weymouth:
Traction: 444, 450
Weymouth - Waterloo via Basingstoke
Wimbledon:
Traction: 444, 450, 455, 458, 707. 701 in future.
Waterloo to Guildford via Cobham, Epsom, Woking
Waterloo to Hampton Court
Waterloo to Dorking
Waterloo to Chessington South
Waterloo to Shepperton via Richmond and Wimbledon, and the Kingston Loop
Waterloo to Windsor/Weybridge/Byfleet & New Haw via Richmond and Hounslow, and the Hounslow Loop
Wimbledon Park Depot
Clapham Yard
Woking:
Traction: 444, 450, 455, 458, 707. 701 in future.
Waterloo to Alton
Waterloo to Ascot (via Hounslow & Richmond)
Waterloo to Basingstoke
Waterloo to Chessington South
Waterloo to Hampton Court
Waterloo to Guildford (via Cobham)
Waterloo to Guildford (via Epsom)
Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (via Haslemere)
Weybridge/Byfleet & New Haw - Chertsey - Virginia Water
Aldershot to Ascot
Aldershot to Guildford
Addlestone to New Haw ("Byfleet Curve")
Hounslow to Whitton ("Whitton Curve")
New Malden to Twickenham (Kingston Loop)
Yeovil Junction:
Traction: 158/159
Exeter to Yeovil then Salisbury and London Waterloo
Salisbury to Westbury (diversionary route to Yeovil via Castle Cary)
Westbury to Frome and Yeovil
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It might be useful to write a preamble to the South Western Railway section explaining that there are 2 types of Guards: "Commercial Guards" who sell and check tickets on all routes and "Guards" who do not, aka "Non-commercial Guards", who work mostly suburban routes only. Strawberry Hill and Wimbledon depots have non-commercial Guards only. The other depots in and around London have links for both: Waterloo and Staines - not sure about Guildford and Woking. The country depots are Commercial Guards only. Don't want to make things too complicated but can see there are references to "Commercial Guards" and "Non commercial Guards" without an explanation of what this means. The preamble to the CrossCountry section is very good as a template for this.
AidenE
Member
All depots on SWR apart from a few have links but most links at depots sign all the same routes it’s just rostering that’s the difference like fratton has about 7 links but we all do the same work
HamworthyGoods
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You’ve missed Salisbury now sign Basingstoke to Reading.
Yes but still might be worth clarifying that Wimbledon and Strawberry Hill are non commercial guards only. While Waterloo and Staines have links for commercial and non commercial guards. The current references to "Commercial Guards" and "non commercial guards" make no sense except for SWR employees.
AidenE
Member
I’m still updating it but yes I will be adding it when I get a chance to go through it again
I’ll look into it
Urban Gateline
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That terminology is outdated anyway, the two grades now are Commercial and Metro Guard, Metro is the replacement job title for "Non-Commercial".
Flange Squeal
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Can confirm that Guildford and Woking have both Commercial and Metro Guards, as do Waterloo and Staines as you say. Strawberry Hill and Wimbledon are indeed Metro only, with all other depots Commercial only.
Caledonian Sleeper and Translink Northern Ireland Railways are missing from this list. Also i have some updates for Southern and Southeastern too.
CALEDONIAN SLEEPER:
Caledonian Sleeper Guards (or "Train Managers" as they are officially called) sign as follows:
Dalmuir Depot (8 Guards based here):
Edinburgh North Depot (11 Guards based here):
Edinburgh South Depot (9 Guards based here):
London Euston Depot (8 Guards based here):
Caledonian Sleeper Guards at all depots solely sign MK5 carriages only.
TRANSLINK NORTHERN IRELAND RAILWAYS:
Translink Northern Ireland Railways Guards sign the following routes and classes as stated below (the number in brackets is how many Guards are based at that depot).
Bangor Depot - Conductor (x13):
Belfast Lanyon Place Depot - Conductor (x52):
Belfast Lanyon Place Depot - Train Manager (x11):
Coleraine Depot - Conductor (x16):
Derry Londonderry Depot - Conductor (x11):
Larne Harbour Depot - Conductor (x11):
Portadown Depot - Conductor (x15):
So all of the Conductors based at Bangor and Larne Harbour and Portadown sign all domestic routes and both DMU types. Then all of the Conductors based at Derry Londonderry and Coleraine sign all domestic routes except Portadown to Newry and both DMU types.
But at Belfast Lanyon Place it gets more confusing as they have both Conductors and Train Managers there.
Conductors at Belfast Lanyon Place sign every domestic route and to Dublin as well and sign both DMU classes (but not De Dietrich sets). Conductors are mainly booked to only work domestic services but they can work Enterprise services (as long as it is not a De Dietrich set) when necessary and to keep up route knowledge.
Train Managers at Belfast Lanyon Place sign Belfast to Dublin only and sign the 3000 DMU (but not 4000 DMU) and the De Dietrich sets. They are only booked to work to work Enterprise services but can occasionally work local services from Belfast to Portadown and Newry (as long as it is not a 4000 unit) if necessary.
So all Conductors and Train Managers at Belfast Lanyon Place sign to Dublin but no other depots do.
SOUTHERN:
Southern Rail Guards at Eastbourne no longer sign Lewes to Hampden Park or Lewes to Seaford or Lewes to Brighton any more. They solely sign the Eastbourne to Ashford route only. They recently lost the other route knowledge after the 313 all went.
Also the Guards at Selhurst sign the 387s too. From what i have been told the 387s are identical to the 377s (in particular the 377/6s and 377/7s versions) from a Guards perspective so no additional training is required. Because of this they have always signed the 387s ever since they were introduced. Presumably this is to enable the Guards to work 387s should Southern ever decide to use them on Watford Junction services. But it is an odd one as the Guards at Selhurst have always signed 387s and still do but have never worked them.
SOUTHEASTERN:
Many depots are missing from this list. Only four out of seven are on the list so three are missing. Southeastern have Guard depots at the following seven locations:
Ashford
Dover
Faversham
Gillingham
Hastings
Ramsgate
Tonbridge
I have put a simple list format below showing all of the routes and all of the classes that each of the seven depots currently sign:
Ashford Depot:
Dover Depot:
Faversham Depot:
Gillingham Depot:
Hastings Depot:
Ramsgate Depot:
Tonbridge Depot:
I hope that this information provided helps with updating the list.
CALEDONIAN SLEEPER:
Caledonian Sleeper Guards (or "Train Managers" as they are officially called) sign as follows:
Dalmuir Depot (8 Guards based here):
Edinburgh North Depot (11 Guards based here):
Edinburgh South Depot (9 Guards based here):
London Euston Depot (8 Guards based here):
Caledonian Sleeper Guards at all depots solely sign MK5 carriages only.
TRANSLINK NORTHERN IRELAND RAILWAYS:
Translink Northern Ireland Railways Guards sign the following routes and classes as stated below (the number in brackets is how many Guards are based at that depot).
Bangor Depot - Conductor (x13):
Belfast Lanyon Place Depot - Conductor (x52):
Belfast Lanyon Place Depot - Train Manager (x11):
Coleraine Depot - Conductor (x16):
Derry Londonderry Depot - Conductor (x11):
Larne Harbour Depot - Conductor (x11):
Portadown Depot - Conductor (x15):
So all of the Conductors based at Bangor and Larne Harbour and Portadown sign all domestic routes and both DMU types. Then all of the Conductors based at Derry Londonderry and Coleraine sign all domestic routes except Portadown to Newry and both DMU types.
But at Belfast Lanyon Place it gets more confusing as they have both Conductors and Train Managers there.
Conductors at Belfast Lanyon Place sign every domestic route and to Dublin as well and sign both DMU classes (but not De Dietrich sets). Conductors are mainly booked to only work domestic services but they can work Enterprise services (as long as it is not a De Dietrich set) when necessary and to keep up route knowledge.
Train Managers at Belfast Lanyon Place sign Belfast to Dublin only and sign the 3000 DMU (but not 4000 DMU) and the De Dietrich sets. They are only booked to work to work Enterprise services but can occasionally work local services from Belfast to Portadown and Newry (as long as it is not a 4000 unit) if necessary.
So all Conductors and Train Managers at Belfast Lanyon Place sign to Dublin but no other depots do.
SOUTHERN:
Southern Rail Guards at Eastbourne no longer sign Lewes to Hampden Park or Lewes to Seaford or Lewes to Brighton any more. They solely sign the Eastbourne to Ashford route only. They recently lost the other route knowledge after the 313 all went.
Also the Guards at Selhurst sign the 387s too. From what i have been told the 387s are identical to the 377s (in particular the 377/6s and 377/7s versions) from a Guards perspective so no additional training is required. Because of this they have always signed the 387s ever since they were introduced. Presumably this is to enable the Guards to work 387s should Southern ever decide to use them on Watford Junction services. But it is an odd one as the Guards at Selhurst have always signed 387s and still do but have never worked them.
SOUTHEASTERN:
Many depots are missing from this list. Only four out of seven are on the list so three are missing. Southeastern have Guard depots at the following seven locations:
Ashford
Dover
Faversham
Gillingham
Hastings
Ramsgate
Tonbridge
I have put a simple list format below showing all of the routes and all of the classes that each of the seven depots currently sign:
Ashford Depot:
Dover Depot:
Faversham Depot:
Gillingham Depot:
Hastings Depot:
Ramsgate Depot:
Tonbridge Depot:
I hope that this information provided helps with updating the list.
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Update for TFW Chester
Chester: Traction: 150, 153, 158,175, 197, 230.
Chester to Holyhead/Llandudno
Chester to Manchester Airport via WBQ only
Chester to Liverpool Lime Street
Chester to Crewe including Shrewsbury triangle
Shrewsbury to Birmingham International (via Stour only)
Wrexham Central to Bidston
(Diversion routes via Aston/Bescot or Stafford for Birmingham, along with Manchester via Northwich no longer signed)
Chester: Traction: 150, 153, 158,175, 197, 230.
Chester to Holyhead/Llandudno
Chester to Manchester Airport via WBQ only
Chester to Liverpool Lime Street
Chester to Crewe including Shrewsbury triangle
Shrewsbury to Birmingham International (via Stour only)
Wrexham Central to Bidston
(Diversion routes via Aston/Bescot or Stafford for Birmingham, along with Manchester via Northwich no longer signed)
Northern guards at Man Vic are currently learning between Parkside Junction and Springs Branch to enable them to travel up to Wigan from the Chat Moss line. They are likely to have booked work from the December timetable change. This is probably link specific.
InkyScrolls
Member
Northern Leeds conductors will be losing Skipton - Carlisle from December.
May i please ask is this thread still being updated? Just wondering as my previous additions in post #202 regarding Caledonian Sleeper and Translink and Southern and Southeastern a few months ago and a few other peoples additions have not been added yet?
If you want to add the information for Irish Rail it is as follows:
Drogheda depot (Freight Guards):
Dundalk depot (Passenger Guards):
Dublin Connolly depot (Passenger Guards):
Portlaoise depot (Freight Guards):
I think it might be worth adding Irish Rail as most of their Guards work cross border services in to the UK every day so i think they ought to be added too.
Another interesting thing to point out is that Irish Rail is one of only two TOCs left to officially use the term Guard still. SWR is the only other one.
Guards in the ROI get no commission for ticket sales. Where as almost all Guards in GB and all Guards in NI do receive commission.
I think that Irish Rail might also be the only company to still require Guards on many of their freight trains and engineering trains. I do not think we have freight train or engineering train Guards in the UK any more.
If you want to add the information for Irish Rail it is as follows:
Drogheda depot (Freight Guards):
Dundalk depot (Passenger Guards):
Dublin Connolly depot (Passenger Guards):
Portlaoise depot (Freight Guards):
I think it might be worth adding Irish Rail as most of their Guards work cross border services in to the UK every day so i think they ought to be added too.
Another interesting thing to point out is that Irish Rail is one of only two TOCs left to officially use the term Guard still. SWR is the only other one.
Guards in the ROI get no commission for ticket sales. Where as almost all Guards in GB and all Guards in NI do receive commission.
I think that Irish Rail might also be the only company to still require Guards on many of their freight trains and engineering trains. I do not think we have freight train or engineering train Guards in the UK any more.
craigybagel
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Is it still the case that guards at IR tend to be multiskilled and have other duties as well? I assume that's the case for the Dundalk pair at the very least.
Yes most of the freight and engineering Guards based at Drogheda and Portlaoise depots are indeed still multi skilled and have other duties too. However the passenger Guards based at Dundalk and Dublin Connolly depots are solely Guards and do not have any other work.
Dundalk depot only has one Guard. His duty is to work that once a day in each direction stopping service to and from Newry. The duty involves boarding the morning ECS from Dundalk to Newry and then working the passenger service from Newry to Dundalk and then he goes home for almost twelve hours and comes back in the evening and works the passenger service from Dundalk to Newry and then the ECS service back from Newry to Dundalk to finish his day. So it is a very simple part time job of just one short return trip in the morning and one short return trip in the evening on five days a week. Whenever he is off work they just get one of the five Dublin Connolly based Enterprise Guards to cover the shift.
Dundalk depot is a very similar job to the C2C Guards (Train Captains) who were required onboard all twelve coach C2C trains until early 2019. They also just worked one morning peak train from Essex to London and then went home for about eight hours and came back and worked one evening peak train from London to Essex. But these trains are DOO now so this role no longer exists.