Disabled Tanyalee Davis - more rail travel woes.

[davart]

You're all disgusting. It's quite clear a large proportion of rail staff see disabled people as a tiresome burden who are only interested in publicity. Shame on you.

That clearly isn't the case. Most people who have posted have actually being fairly unbiased and have argued their points well.

People will always be offended. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Of course, there will be those who have their prejudices, rightly or wrongly!

The world isn't perfect. I'd bend over backwards to help someone in need whenever possible.

Not a lot more can be said. If you think what I've said is disgusting then so be it. It's a fair statement.

 

[aylesbury]

Seeking publicity or not this person is raising the profile as to the difficulties surrounding being disabled and traveling on public transport in the UK . Airline travel can be a problem due to services airside being provided by companies with no connection to the airline and lack of staff plus fast turn rounds of planes. Rail is hampered by unstaffed stations and minimum staffing in staffed stations. I think that everyone should step back and think carefully about disability and how it affects peoples lives.

 

[OneOffDave]

It's true, most disabled people would rather be in the press than be able to travel somewhere without incident [/sarcasm]

The reasons she and other high profile disabled people are repeatedly in the paper over these kind of failings is because they happen that often. Before the staff at my local station got to know me and started checking with me directly about when I was travelling, I was having problems on around 10% of my journeys. the only difference is that I don't know as many journalists and don't have their contacts in my phone. Even with that , I still managed to get some media coverage.
People who aren't wheelchair users really don't have a clue how often this sort of thing happens and continue to deny the lived experience of disabled people

 

[OneOffDave]

Agree with @jon0844

Wouldn't this be the third time that something has happened?

It's unfortunate, but repeatedly making the news will lead to a 'cry wolf' type of situation.

Worse things happen in the world. Suck it up and appreciate that it isn't a perfect world.

Everyone has their problems. There's a right way and a wrong way to achieve a resolution. Be discreet would be the mature way of dealing with things.

It's been argued already. I'd suggest locking the thread.

Yeah, nothing should be reported in the news unless it's the most dreadful thing in the world. Unless you are mortally wounded, don't complain about anything ever again, suck it up and move on.

So you're alleging that these things haven't happened or are you totally failing to understand the meaning of the idiom 'to cry wolf'?

So when complaining quietly cap in hand fails to achieve change, what should disabled people do? Would you be happier if it was like the 1950s and we were all kept in homes?

 

[Via Bank]

Or maybe the fact she’s had three similarly appalling experiences three times in quick succession means our society has unacceptably poor infrastructure and an attitude to Disabled people that makes it impossible for wheelchair users to go about their business without unnecessary drama.

 

[LowLevel]

As as guard the amount of times I have to intervene with what should be someone else's job at busy stations suggests an endemic system failure. Thus I have no problem with the lady concerned and others using their profile to make an issue of it.

 

[aye2beeviasea]

Not just unacceptably poor infrastructure. With the right will and good faith there's usually a way to find a solution.

It's poor infrastructure combined with employees who think doing the job they're paid to do is too much trouble, and that passengers should just suck up whatever they're given, and who really can't stand it when their complacency is challenged or has a light shone onto it.

 

[DarloRich]

I think some posters really need to take a deep breath. The conspiracy ramblings are becoming excessive!

 

[Bantamzen]

Just before this thread explodes again, can I just point out that a) This third incident is nothing to do with the railways & b) The loss of the tray may not even have taken place in the UK.

Beyond that, and risking the wrath of some members, I have no problems with people campaigning for and wanting equal (or as close to as reasonably possible) access & treatment when using our transport infrastructure. However as someone has previously said, running to the press every time something goes wrong will ultimately have a negative effect not only to the public's attitude in general, but also to this lady who is rapidly becoming someone I'm sure transport staff, heck even retail staff will dread as they will have to treat her with kid gloves or risk finding themselves on YouTube. if the BBC or any media reported on every time an airline or baggage handling company lost something important to a passenger the webpages would be many gigabytes in size, and printed newspapers would be hundreds of pages deep.

 

[Esker-pades]

You're all disgusting. It's quite clear a large proportion of rail staff see disabled people as a tiresome burden who are only interested in publicity. Shame on you.

It isn't though.

As a lot of this thread shows it is lack of staff, the system in which they operate in and over-working existing staff that means disabled people don't get the assistance that they require. Not everyone thinking that they are some sort of burden.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It isn't though.

As a lot of this thread shows it is lack of staff, the system in which they operate in and over-working existing staff that means disabled people don't get the assistance that they require. Not everyone thinking that they are some sort of burden.

The latest one only really shows that...
1. Ryanair are cheap rubbish (and is there really anyone who doesn't know that, even if they accept it because they benefit from the "cheap" bit)?
2. Airport baggage handling is poor, particularly when anything other than a standard trolley suitcase is involved (and so it is sensible mitigation by anyone taking anything that has something isn't very firmly fixed on to remove that and put it in a bag and check it separately[1]), or at least firmly fix it to the main item using duct tape or a cable lock.

[1] An aside: I was once taking a heavy Dutch bike back from the Netherlands to the UK. On arriving at check-in I found it was too heavy for KLM's requirements without paying extra. To the bemusement of the member of staff present, I took it away to a corner within sight of the check-in desk and removed some parts from it and placed them in a separate bag, and returned to the desk and checked the bike and the bag separately using my free 2nd bag and increased luggage allowance as KLM Gold back then. No fee due As a bonus, they failed to load it so instead of me having to faff about with it on the train they couriered it to me the next day.

 

[Esker-pades]

The latest one only really shows that...
1. Ryanair are cheap rubbish (and is there really anyone who doesn't know that, even if they accept it because they benefit from the "cheap" bit)?
2. Airport baggage handling is poor, particularly when anything other than a standard trolley suitcase is involved (and so it is sensible mitigation by anyone taking anything that has something isn't very firmly fixed on to remove that and put it in a bag and check it separately[1]).

[1] An aside: I was once taking a heavy Dutch bike back from the Netherlands to the UK. On arriving at check-in I found it was too heavy for KLM's requirements without paying extra. To the bemusement of the member of staff present, I took it away to a corner within sight of the check-in desk and removed some parts from it and placed them in a separate bag, and returned to the desk and checked the bike and the bag separately using my free 2nd bag and increased luggage allowance as KLM Gold back then. No fee due As a bonus, they failed to load it so instead of me having to faff about with it on the train they couriered it to me the next day.

I'll agree with that. I was referring to the railway side of things and my experiences with that. I'm happy to say I've never flown Ryanair.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'll agree with that. I was referring to the railway side of things and my experiences with that. I'm happy to say I've never flown Ryanair.

I can't say I heartily recommend it, though there have for me been the odd cases when they were the only viable and therefore quite expensive option (which like paying over £100 for a Travelodge I resent).

 

[whhistle]

You're all disgusting. It's quite clear a large proportion of rail staff see disabled people as a tiresome burden who are only interested in publicity. Shame on you.

Contriversal but sometimes people with a disability are a burden.
I've seen some who are fully capable of taking a tiny wheeled case and asking someone to take it for them... simply because they're too lazy.
They managed to bring it all the way to the station. The extra few metres is hardly going to change anything.

 

[al78]

Yeah, nothing should be reported in the news unless it's the most dreadful thing in the world. Unless you are mortally wounded, don't complain about anything ever again, suck it up and move on.

Yes, welcome to the fallacy of relative privation. The favourite fallacy of those who know they are doing or saying something wrong, and seek out distractions to try and avoid being called out.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as

 

[WelshBluebird]

Contriversal but sometimes people with a disability are a burden.
I've seen some who are fully capable of taking a tiny wheeled case and asking someone to take it for them... simply because they're too lazy.
They managed to bring it all the way to the station. The extra few metres is hardly going to change anything.

OK I'll bite.
How do you know they are just lazy?
Did you see their entire journey to the station? (How do you know they didn't get a lift for example).
Or maybe they did get to the station themselves, but they had to struggle to do so.
Or maybe they have a condition where they have "good times" and "bad times" so they thought they were able to make the journey without help but took a turn on the way and needed assistance by the time they got to the station.
Or maybe they can do small things for themselves but doing so takes its toll on them and so they are essentially "done" for the day.
This post and the attitude within it is exactly the reason why so many incidents described in this thread happen.

Beyond that, and risking the wrath of some members, I have no problems with people campaigning for and wanting equal (or as close to as reasonably possible) access & treatment when using our transport infrastructure. However as someone has previously said, running to the press every time something goes wrong will ultimately have a negative effect not only to the public's attitude in general

The only reason she is "running to the press" is because things like this keep on happening.
It is simply not acceptable.
So what do you suggest she does instead of trying to raise attention to how poorly disabled people and their equipment are often treated when travelling?

Oh and as reporting every time normal luggage goes missing - well apart from the fact they often do (seriously, search google for "missing luggage news"), the equipment disabled people carry with them is not just "normal luggage". For a able bodied person, their luggage going missing may mean having to spend a little bit of money on some clothes or belongings. For a disabled person it may mean not being able to do anything at all or being stranded.

 

[aylesbury]

As as guard the amount of times I have to intervene with what should be someone else's job at busy stations suggests an endemic system failure. Thus I have no problem with the lady concerned and others using their profile to make an issue of it.

Well done persons such as yourself are a credit to the railway .

 

[Master29]

You're all disgusting. It's quite clear a large proportion of rail staff see disabled people as a tiresome burden who are only interested in publicity. Shame on you.

But this isn`t any disabled person is it. It`s someone in the know so to speak. I am not rail staff and have a disability so I can see both sides. Had this been any ordinary joe with a disability then this would have been unlikely to get any publicity. Don`t feel sorry for her. She doesn`t need your sympathy just like anyone with any type of disability but does need our respect. She won`t come to any harm out of this and it will probably do her career a world of good, which incidentally may not have happened if she didn`t have a disability. It`s not about being disgusting or callous. A little bit of wisdom goes a long way.

 

[pt_mad]

Someone was right in saying it's not a perfect world. For about 2 million years things have been inaccessible to people with some disabilities. Now, in 2018, we demand that everything must be totally accessible to everyone. That's fine and a great aspiration to have, but systems take time and so do infrastructure improvements. I still know two restaurants and a nightclub near me that are on a first floor, with no lift or Ramp access. Stairs only. Someone could complain about those places every week to the press. But these things take time and the whole world is still adapting as fast as it can. It's only the last 15 years or so where adaptions have been essential in law as far as I know. Yet the railway has been around 150 years as have many other establishments. We had wheelchair users in the 1970s. Yet things wernt made properly accessible then. Why not? It needed action to have been started then to make sure everything was seamless by 2018. Yet back then it was shrugged off in a lot of cases when it should have been kicked started as soon as the war was over and things were being rebuilt.
My local pub still doesn't have a disabled loo or a ramp to the restaurant part, but it's not in the news. And someone in a wheelchair could only eat in the bar because of a couple of steps.
By 2050 I'm sure all trains will have dead level access and so will most stations if not nearly all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

By 2050 I'm sure all trains will have dead level access and so will most stations if not nearly all.

It'll be a lot slower because a massive trick was missed in ordering stacks of Aventras and Class 800s with high floors. We could have got it right this time; all the manufacturers have low floor products for mainland European use.

 

[pt_mad]

It'll be a lot slower because a massive trick was missed in ordering stacks of Aventras and Class 800s with high floors. We could have got it right this time; all the manufacturers have low floor products for mainland European use.

A totally spot on point and perhaphs the media should be focusing more on that at a higher political level, rather than individual cases of missed assistance when assistance wouldn't be needed in half of cases if access were level throughout.

 

[davart]

A totally spot on point and perhaphs the media should be focusing more on that at a higher political level, rather than individual cases of missed assistance when assistance wouldn't be needed in half of cases if access were level throughout.

And this is the root of the problem.

Way back, I said that people should be self sufficient. This is essentially it. I don't expect someone with walking difficulties to run upstairs, but those who are able to do a little bit by themselves should do so.

This might mean collapsing a wheelchair and taking a few steps here and there. The same applies for pushchairs and heavy suitcases.

Assistance should be requested when it is absolutely the only way.

Going back to working in the ambulance service, we've carried people that actually can walk short distances but chose not to. I've seen notes from nurses and Doctors stating a patient should be walking but again refuse to.

As I've said previously, making the distinction is extremely difficult. It lies with the traveller themselves to make the call and also to appreciate the strain that the infrastructure is under.

I actually don't think that this problem will ever solved. Mistakes will always happen somewhere and certain individuals like to have a moan at the first opportunity.

There's always someone worse off...

 

[6Gman]

Not just unacceptably poor infrastructure. With the right will and good faith there's usually a way to find a solution.

It's poor infrastructure combined with employees who think doing the job they're paid to do is too much trouble, and that passengers should just suck up whatever they're given, and who really can't stand it when their complacency is challenged or has a light shone onto it.

Twice recently there have been blind passengers travelling in the same carriage that I was using. In both cases the staff support at the beginning and end of the journey, and en route, was exemplary and the passengers spoke warmly of how good the service was.

The only poor element was the passenger at Crewe who insisted on pushing in front of blind passenger, guide dog and staff member as they tried to board.

 

[Calderfornian]

Contriversal but sometimes people with a disability are a burden.

You need to seriously consider what you have said there. That’s abhorrent.

 

[Esker-pades]

Not just unacceptably poor infrastructure. With the right will and good faith there's usually a way to find a solution.

It's poor infrastructure combined with employees who think doing the job they're paid to do is too much trouble, and that passengers should just suck up whatever they're given, and who really can't stand it when their complacency is challenged or has a light shone onto it.

The statement about employees is incorrect. Most try to do the best they can in the system in which they operate. As a lot of posts before this state, on the railway, the lack of station staff and flimsy way that assistance is set up means that it is very easy for staff to miss booked assistance. These reasons being are usually to do with an urgent incident somewhere else; more than 1 person requiring assistance from the same train, but only 1 member of staff to cover everything; or many other perfectly reasonable excuses that mean it is the fault of the system, not the individual staff members, certainly in the majority of cases.

 

[Bantamzen]

And this is the root of the problem.

Way back, I said that people should be self sufficient. This is essentially it. I don't expect someone with walking difficulties to run upstairs, but those who are able to do a little bit by themselves should do so.

This might mean collapsing a wheelchair and taking a few steps here and there. The same applies for pushchairs and heavy suitcases.

Assistance should be requested when it is absolutely the only way.

Going back to working in the ambulance service, we've carried people that actually can walk short distances but chose not to. I've seen notes from nurses and Doctors stating a patient should be walking but again refuse to.

As I've said previously, making the distinction is extremely difficult. It lies with the traveller themselves to make the call and also to appreciate the strain that the infrastructure is under.

I actually don't think that this problem will ever solved. Mistakes will always happen somewhere and certain individuals like to have a moan at the first opportunity.

There's always someone worse off...

I agree with you. Where assistance is required, or where accessibility measures need implementing I am totally in support of them. But there are sadly occasions where people weaponise their disabilities to gain an advantage, or as is starting to look like in this case to gain some extra free publicity. Because let's face it, how many disabled people in ordinary jobs and ordinary lives get the attention this lady does?

 

[jon0844]

Just before this thread explodes again, can I just point out that a) This third incident is nothing to do with the railways & b) The loss of the tray may not even have taken place in the UK.

Beyond that, and risking the wrath of some members, I have no problems with people campaigning for and wanting equal (or as close to as reasonably possible) access & treatment when using our transport infrastructure. However as someone has previously said, running to the press every time something goes wrong will ultimately have a negative effect not only to the public's attitude in general, but also to this lady who is rapidly becoming someone I'm sure transport staff, heck even retail staff will dread as they will have to treat her with kid gloves or risk finding themselves on YouTube. if the BBC or any media reported on every time an airline or baggage handling company lost something important to a passenger the webpages would be many gigabytes in size, and printed newspapers would be hundreds of pages deep.

My comment was about the Ryanair incident. The point was that mistakes can be made. People can and will f*** up. It's how it is dealt after with that matters, because people - disabled and not - will suffer problems throughout their life. And it will never become perfect, even though we should strive to get as close to perfection as possible.

I am surprised the BBC didn't wait to see what Ryanair had to say before running a front page story. It didn't mean the incident wasn't very real and someone wasn't massive inconvenienced.

 

[6Gman]

I agree with you. Where assistance is required, or where accessibility measures need implementing I am totally in support of them. But there are sadly occasions where people weaponise their disabilities to gain an advantage, or as is starting to look like in this case to gain some extra free publicity. Because let's face it, how many disabled people in ordinary jobs and ordinary lives get the attention this lady does?

I think that's an issue for the media, rather than the people concerned.

 

[EM2]

Where assistance is required, or where accessibility measures need implementing I am totally in support of them. But there are sadly occasions where people weaponise their disabilities to gain an advantage, or as is starting to look like in this case to gain some extra free publicity. Because let's face it, how many disabled people in ordinary jobs and ordinary lives get the attention this lady does?

But this is the whole point. The measures have been implemented and are still failing. Not just for Tanyalee Davis, but for Tanni Grey-Thompson, Frank Gardner, Ade Adepitan, Anne Wafula-Strike and many others. Because these well-known people are raising the issues, things will improve for those 'in ordinary jobs and ordinary lives'.

 

[Bantamzen]

My comment was about the Ryanair incident. The point was that mistakes can be made. People can and will f*** up. It's how it is dealt after with that matters, because people - disabled and not - will suffer problems throughout their life. And it will never become perfect, even though we should strive to get as close to perfection as possible.

I am surprised the BBC didn't wait to see what Ryanair had to say before running a front page story. It didn't mean the incident wasn't very real and someone wasn't massive inconvenienced.

I'm not, sometimes the BBC like to latch onto bad news stories.

But this is the whole point. The measures have been implemented and are still failing. Not just for Tanyalee Davis, but for Tanni Grey-Thompson, Frank Gardner, Ade Adepitan, Anne Wafula-Strike and many others. Because these well-known people are raising the issues, things will improve for those 'in ordinary jobs and ordinary lives'.

There's nothing wrong with raising the issues, but do they need to run to the media every time something goes wrong? In the case of the Ryanair flight we don't even know if the problems occurred in this country let alone if they were the fault of the airline.

Sorry but I am coming to the conclusion that she has now found herself a go to whenever something doesn't suit, and at the same time get some extra publicity. And the more she does it, the more people will draw the same conclusion as me.