Disused lines at Duddeston.

[Mugby]

Does anyone know what the two disued lines on the left between Duddeston and Aston were used for?
Were they goods lines or slow lines, or were they for access to Duddeston Carriage Sidings? Also, when were they last used?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I may be totally wrong with the location that I have in mind, but noting your comment about being in-between Duddeston and Aston railway stations, there was the Windsor Road Wharf goods station, which I recall as being closed about 1980.

 

[Boothby97]

Does anyone know what the two disued lines on the left between Duddeston and Aston were used for?
Were they goods lines or slow lines, or were they for access to Duddeston Carriage Sidings? Also, when were they last used?

Do you mean on the left as you leave Aston for Duddleston? And is the line electrified? If yes to both then it's the line down to Birmingham International
There's nothing else on my track atlas and I don't remember any other lines in that area when I went down there last week

But if its a disused section of track that runs alongside the line that is for the most part unelectrified with a disused platform at Duddleston then this is an OOU line to some sidings
Thanks, Sam

 

[The Planner]

OOU track to Duddeston carriage sidings and the old cement depot (now demolished). Still earmarked for a new LM depot but has gone off the boil due to funding.

 

[Andyjs247]

The lines you mention on the west side between Aston and Duddeston were slow lines IIRC. I can't remember exactly when they were taken OOU but it was probably late 80s. They were cleared for passenger use - sometimes by DMUs for the Cross city line, EMUs for Walsall both of which I've been on when routed that way. Occasionally you'd see electric loco hauled ECS routed that way.

Trains stopping at Duddeston had to use a different island - the station was better served then though unstaffed and no passenger information displays to indicate which platform. Sometimes it meant a mad scramble to get to the right platform if a stopper was using the slow lines. The station was never that well used but there was more to see in the 70s and 80s and only a short walk to Saltley. It was mainly train crew and enthusiasts even then.

 

[Boothby97]

The lines you mention on the west side between Aston and Duddeston were slow lines IIRC. I can't remember exactly when they were taken OOU but it was probably late 80s. They were cleared for passenger use - sometimes by DMUs for the Cross city line, EMUs for Walsall both of which I've been on when routed that way. Occasionally you'd see electric loco hauled ECS routed that way.

Trains stopping at Duddeston had to use a different island - the station was better served then though unstaffed and no passenger information displays to indicate which platform. Sometimes it meant a mad scramble to get to the right platform if a stopper was using the slow lines. The station was never that well used but there was more to see in the 70s and 80s and only a short walk to Saltley. It was mainly train crew and enthusiasts even then.

So were the slows originally electrified as they no longer are?
Thanks, Sam

 

[Andyjs247]

So were the slows originally electrified as they no longer are?
Thanks, Sam

Yes they were. I can't remember when or why they were dewired, though probably it was about 1995. Anything that did go via the slow lines seemed to make a terrible noise - I guess the track wasn't that great. Cl304 dinosaur units used to bounce along there!

 

[NSEFAN]

Weren't the class 304s notorious bouncers anyway?

 

[onein37]

Yes,they were originally electrified. Electric locos stabled in sidings off these lines the other side of the bridge. The slow lines gave access to Duddeston c&w, the cement sidings and Curzon St parcels. Duddeston carriage sidings were the other side of the station.

 

[David Goddard]

Previous thread here:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=49079

And some photos of the station area here:
http://www.railaroundbirmingham.co.uk/Stations/duddeston.php

 

[paulb1973]

Previous thread here:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=49079

And some photos of the station area here:
http://www.railaroundbirmingham.co.uk/Stations/duddeston.php

The Carriage shed was electrified too (no trace of it today) looking at those pictures, wired then, both sides of the platforms. Duddeston looks down-at-heal now although the slow lines and redundant track to the west appears to be mostly in-situ if hidden away.

Slightly further towards Proof House Junction was a short electrified siding for the Royal Mail depot - that existed in its wired-up form until c.1990.

 

[the sniper]

Still earmarked for a new LM depot but has gone off the boil due to funding.

Surely it'll have to be considered necessary with Bromsgrove and the Chase Line being wired up? Soho appears to be full and surely there's a limit (that is being reached?) on the number of units that can be dumped in WVH, BHM, BHI and Coventry's sidings?!

 

[Kettledrum]

Surely it'll have to be considered necessary with Bromsgrove and the Chase Line being wired up? Soho appears to be full and surely there's a limit (that is being reached?) on the number of units that can be dumped in WVH, BHM, BHI and Coventry's sidings?!

Remmeber this is London Midland we're talking about - the company that had to cancel hundreds of trains because it didn 't have enough fore-sight to recruit enough drivers.

 

[The Planner]

Bromsgrove makes no difference as it is an extension of the cross city. They will find room for them somewhere. Passive provision for Duddeston is in the New St re-sig so it hasn't died a death yet.

 

[the sniper]

Bromsgrove makes no difference as it is an extension of the cross city.

No extra units are required/to be acquired for it? I'm sure you're right though, they'll find plenty more places to stick them before having to provide any funding towards building a new facility at Duddeston.

Randomly came across this image of two Class 8X electric locos and two '47s' in the short sidings north of Duddeston. The sidings don't appear to be wired though:

Picture comes from Pudding on the Birmingham Forum, found via Google.

 

[sprinterguy]

No extra units are required/to be acquired for it? I'm sure you're right though, they'll find plenty more places to stick them before having to provide any funding towards building a new facility at Duddeston.

Three of the new class 350/3s will be used on services around the West Midlands to provide enough rolling stock to operate the Bromsgrove services. I don't know whether they are intended to be used on the Cross City line directly or not (Surely it would make more sense to use them on the Wolverhampton - Walsall services that 350s are already fully cleared for and signed by Drivers and Conductors?), but at any rate they won't be routinely maintained at Soho depot, but based at Northampton along with the other 350s.

 

[Boothby97]

Three of the new class 350/3s will be used on services around the West Midlands to provide enough rolling stock to operate the Bromsgrove services. I don't know whether they are intended to be used on the Cross City line directly or not (Surely it would make more sense to use them on the Wolverhampton - Walsall services that 350s are already fully cleared for and signed by Drivers and Conductors?), but at any rate they won't be routinely maintained at Soho depot, but based at Northampton along with the other 350s.

I thought three of them were for "services around Birmingham" so that could be any route, unless I'm wrong?
When do the 350/3s and 350/4s arrive?
Thanks, Sam

 

[sprinterguy]

I thought three of them were for "services around Birmingham" so that could be any route, unless I'm wrong?

Could well be, but whichever West Midlands route they are deployed on (I can't see them being used indiscriminately across all routes - They will have set diagrams) the effect will be to provide sufficient rolling stock for the Bromsgrove services.

When do the 350/3s and 350/4s arrive?
Thanks, Sam

The 350/3s are expected to be delivered over summer 2014, for full entry into service by the time of the December 2014 timetable change. I think that the TPE class 350/4s are being delivered first, from early 2014 onwards.

 

[work-traveller]

The Carriage shed was electrified too (no trace of it today) looking at those pictures, wired then, both sides of the platforms. Duddeston looks down-at-heal now although the slow lines and redundant track to the west appears to be mostly in-situ if hidden away.

Slightly further towards Proof House Junction was a short electrified siding for the Royal Mail depot - that existed in its wired-up form until c.1990.

I remember those sidings being pretty full of freight units in the 80's. I also remember the cross city line using the (now) redundant island platform. Also between the former Royal Mail depot and Duddeston there was the Castle Cement batching plant with a number of unelectrified sidings - now a crap looking hall of residence for Birmingham City uni. If you look on Google Maps (http://goo.gl/maps/YkeBq) you can still see the turn-out along with the beginning of the widened viaduct.

 

[paulb1973]

I remember those sidings being pretty full of freight units in the 80's. I also remember the cross city line using the (now) redundant island platform. Also between the former Royal Mail depot and Duddeston there was the Castle Cement batching plant with a number of unelectrified sidings - now a crap looking hall of residence for Birmingham City uni. If you look on Google Maps (http://goo.gl/maps/YkeBq) you can still see the turn-out along with the beginning of the widened viaduct.

I recall the Castle Cement sidings. Following that link to Google Maps (and move a little to the north) the 25kV overhead masts get wider & wider, an indication of additional wired track that isn't all there now. I presume some OHLE had to be removed after the abandonment and demolition of the Carriage depot.

 

[150219]

Vauxhall Goods Lines and Sidings were officially taken out of use at 0645hrs on Sunday 12 March 2000.

If memory serves me correctly, there were still still some semaphore ground signals from Vauxhall S.F. adjacent to the former Down Goods or Down Through Siding up until a few years ago.

 

[Mugby]

Thanks to all for the interesting information, certainly some facts here which I wasn't aware of when I asked the question.

It seems that if passenger trains once used either of the two island platforms at Duddeston, then they could travel on any of the four lines to the point where they become two, near the present day bus garage. Therefore, were the ones which are now disused officially the former slow lines?

I was also under the misapprehension that the surviving shed with the five bricked up entrances was a carriage shed when in fact is was a former engine shed. The actual carriage sheds have now obviously been completely obliterated.

One further question though, is Vauxhall SF box regularly manned and what does it actually control?

 

[dave_wm]

As far as I know, the only signal box in the Duddeston area still manned is the Aston Signalling Centre (confusingly located south of Duddeston station), which controls the Cross City line between Aston and Lichfield Trent Valley.

 

[the sniper]

It seems that if passenger trains once used either of the two island platforms at Duddeston, then they could travel on any of the four lines to the point where they become two, near the present day bus garage. Therefore, were the ones which are now disused officially the former slow lines?

I believe so, yes.

I was also under the misapprehension that the surviving shed with the five bricked up entrances was a carriage shed when in fact is was a former engine shed. The actual carriage sheds have now obviously been completely obliterated.

The surviving building was actually a wagon repair shed prior to it's disuse, as can be seen here and here.

According to the excellent 'Warwickshire Railways' website, Duddeston/Vauxhall yard hasn't been a loco depot since 1882, when Aston shed opened. Aston shed was on the site of the Bus depot you mention near Aston station. A plan of the site can be seen here (which also confirms for you that the closed lines were the slow lines) and seen in many views on this page: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/aston_shed.htm

Every time I go past that bus depot I imagine what used to be there...

 

[150219]

Vauxhall S.F. became Aston S.C. when the frame was removed and replaced by a panel. Vauxhall was the original name for Duddeston station.

 

[AlexS]

I may be wrong here, but I think the frame is still present at Aston/Vauxhall, just completely (as of a few years ago) signed out of use (and therefore effectively spare).

 

[curly42]

Here's another picture of the area - taken in 1967 - that shows the layout.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/curly42/8537673448/in/photostream

 

[paulb1973]

Here's another picture of the area - taken in 1967 - that shows the layout.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/curly42/8537673448/in/photostream

Its likely that the OHLE pictured here - remains pretty-much in-situ today, more that the track layout has changed or certain lines have become disused. Do those 'extra bits' of overhead mast (hanging to the left of the stanchions in the middle of the picture which cover the electric loco) remain today?