Do users need all this chat about Dore upgrade?

[tbtc]

Indeed, but why spend money on freight loops when you could put it towards something that can benefit existing passengers and open up new markets.

Freight loops obviously benefit passengers

 

[yorksrob]

Freight loops obviously benefit passengers

They do, but not as much as providing more direct journeys and new travel opportunities as well

 

[Kettledrum]

Noting what you say about longer distance commuting above, where you make mention of the East Midlands, a colleague of one of my sons who lives in Nottingham commutes to the city area of Manchester on a daily basis on EMT and the 0640 service he takes from Nottingham stops at Alfreton, Chesterfield, Dronfield, Sheffield, Dore & Totley, Chinley, Hazel Grove, Stockport and Manchester Picccadilly (arriving there at 0836).

That's a tough commute every day - with an average speed of approx. 45 mph. Will the improvements proposed help with the line speed or journey times or simply add paths, capacity and resilience.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Gives the NIMBYs who bought houses close to the line a chance to complain about the extra noise these extra trains will make.

Think you will find thats up the road in Totley, where world war 3 happened when a new bus turning circle was built :roll:

As an ex resident of the area I still feel that it would be much better to have all 4 platforms again and have the Leeds - Barnsley - Sheffield Midland - Chesterfield - Nottingham services stop there.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As an ex resident of the area I still feel that it would be much better to have all 4 platforms again and have the Leeds - Barnsley - Sheffield Midland - Chesterfield - Nottingham services stop there.

Would you have any thoughts about also reopening any of the following closed stations between Sheffield and Chesterfield ?....
Heeley
Millhouses
Beauchief
Unstone
Sheepbridge

 

[34D]

Noting what you say about longer distance commuting above, where you make mention of the East Midlands, a colleague of one of my sons who lives in Nottingham commutes to the city area of Manchester on a daily basis on EMT and the 0640 service he takes from Nottingham stops at Alfreton, Chesterfield, Dronfield, Sheffield, Dore & Totley, Chinley, Hazel Grove, Stockport and Manchester Picccadilly (arriving there at 0836).

There are a number of commuting patterns I read on here where I think silently to myself "get a flat" but in this case I'm actually gonna say it!! Why would anyone choose to spend 20 hours a week and £126.90 per week on a train?

 

[Bevan Price]

Is the existing TransPeak bus service from Matlock to Buxton not of a sufficiant frequency to serve the needs of the travelling public ?

The main problem is that it uses the A6, which can be a traffic nightmare at various locations on busy days (and almost every day between Hazel Grove, Stockport & Manchester)

 

[edwin_m]

The main problem is that it uses the A6, which can be a traffic nightmare at various locations on busy days (and almost every day between Hazel Grove, Stockport & Manchester)

With a sensible integrated transport policy the Transpeak would run only between Matlock and Buxton railway stations, connecting with trains either end and running more punctually by avoiding the most congested parts of the A6.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There are a number of commuting patterns I read on here where I think silently to myself "get a flat" but in this case I'm actually gonna say it!! Why would anyone choose to spend 20 hours a week and £126.90 per week on a train?

If you knew of the extremely high salary that he was on and the fact that a flat to rent or buy in central Manchester is neither a cheap option nor one that his wife would agree to (they have a five bedroom detached property in the better part of Nottingham), then you will understand that all he is doing is what countless others do when commuting into London from settlements far away on a daily basis.

 

[34D]

If you knew of the extremely high salary that he was on and the fact that a flat to rent or buy in central Manchester is neither a cheap option nor one that his wife would agree to (they have a five bedroom detached property in the better part of Nottingham), then you will understand that all he is doing is what countless others do when commuting into London from settlements far away on a daily basis.

Then all the more reason to get a flat (or hotel room) in Manchester for some nights a week.

Or move to a five-bedroom detached property in Manchester.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Then all the more reason to get a flat (or hotel room) in Manchester for some nights a week.

Or move to a five-bedroom detached property in Manchester.

If you look at what I said in my posting, you will have noted the phrase..."nor one that his wife would agree to"

Unless you are married, you cannot possibly understand the implications of this...:roll:

 

[Kettledrum]

There are a number of commuting patterns I read on here where I think silently to myself "get a flat" but in this case I'm actually gonna say it!! Why would anyone choose to spend 20 hours a week and £126.90 per week on a train?

Lots of people do, and for lots of reasons.

In some cases the husband might commute 2 hours in one direction, and the wife, 2 hours in the other. Job security and a sluggish housing market these days makes it difficult to move house, children's education is so important, you might not want to disrupt it by moving house.

A huge benefit of the rail network is it enables people to commute to where the jobs are.

For those who have to travel between the East Midlands and Manchester, it's a lengthy commute, and it would be great if it could be speeded up.

For those living between Chesterfield and Sheffield, there are a number of closed stations which could be re-opened to improve commuting into Sheffield.

For those living in the Peak District, it's tough because there are no plans or business case to re-open Matlock to Buxton.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

For those living between Chesterfield and Sheffield, there are a number of closed stations which could be re-opened to improve commuting into Sheffield

Would any of these be those I showed in my posting # 35 ?

 

[Kettledrum]

With a sensible integrated transport policy the Transpeak would run only between Matlock and Buxton railway stations, connecting with trains either end and running more punctually by avoiding the most congested parts of the A6.

The A6 congestion must be really bad, if this is going to make a through journey quicker. Commuters and passengers don't like changing because of the time penalty it adds.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would any of these be those I showed in my posting # 35 ?

There are political difficulties in getting South Yorkshire PTE to treat station re-opening between Chesterfield and Sheffield as a priority. There's no money or votes from electors coming from Derbyshire County or Derbyshire electors to contribute. That's why the Sheffield Supertram stops where it does and doesn't continue to Killamarsh.

There are too many other priorities that the SYPTE can spend money on that will benefit more of the South Yorkshire residents.

As the SYPTE gets its funding (and votes) from Doncaster, Barnsley and Rotherham as well as Sheffield, any improvements in the Chesterfield direction will be peripheral. I can't see that there will be any funding from Derbyshire County Council for such schemes either. The Derbyshire County budget is so tight, and their rail priorities are focussing on Ilkeston station at the moment.

 

[yorksrob]

I hadn't realised that there were so many settlements betweeen Sheffield and Chesterfield.

These represent yet another group of potential rail users who could benefit from paths freed up by switching Manchester - East Midlands trains to the Matlock route.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Did I read this as an option somewhere, if more capacity was added to the Hope Valley:
a) Speed up the Nottingham/Liverpool service by missing out Sheffield, using the Dore southern curve (saving 20 mins* on the journey time).
and
b) Use the extra capacity on the Hope Valley for an extra express to maintain the 2 per hour Sheffield-Manchester fast service.

*Realtimetrains has an early morning ECS taking 15 mins from Chesterfield to Grindleford missing out Sheffield, while normal services via Sheffield are booked in 35 mins.

 

[HowardGWR]

Lots of people do, and for lots of reasons.

In some cases the husband might commute 2 hours in one direction, and the wife, 2 hours in the other. Job security and a sluggish housing market these days makes it difficult to move house, children's education is so important, you might not want to disrupt it by moving house.

A huge benefit of the rail network is it enables people to commute to where the jobs are.

For those who have to travel between the East Midlands and Manchester, it's a lengthy commute, and it would be great if it could be speeded up.

For those living between Chesterfield and Sheffield, there are a number of closed stations which could be re-opened to improve commuting into Sheffield.

For those living in the Peak District, it's tough because there are no plans or business case to re-open Matlock to Buxton.

I have great sympathy with this and with the situation of Paul's acquaintance.

I used to do a long commute to a client in the Netherlands and there was no reasonable train connection (unusual in NL but true at that time). The daily spinning of life's roulette wheel on the NL motorways in fog and rain caused me to travel down on Sunday evening and come home once per week mid week, thus travelling outside of the peak and managing to spend more time at home. Paul's friend can sleep or doze on the train mornings or work on the way home.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Think you will find thats up the road in Totley, where world war 3 happened when a new bus turning circle was built :roll:

As an ex resident of the area I still feel that it would be much better to have all 4 platforms again and have the Leeds - Barnsley - Sheffield Midland - Chesterfield - Nottingham services stop there.

Firstly, public consultation is a requirement of planning process. If you think it's a waste of time, vote for a government that will change it.

(Intriguingly, it seems much adverse comment from these events has been levelled at Grindleford Loop, not Dore...)

Secondly, The designs for Dore's second platform include consideration of re-instating the third and fourth ones later, because in the current climate they cannot be ruled out.

 

[edwin_m]

Did I read this as an option somewhere, if more capacity was added to the Hope Valley:
a) Speed up the Nottingham/Liverpool service by missing out Sheffield, using the Dore southern curve (saving 20 mins* on the journey time).
and
b) Use the extra capacity on the Hope Valley for an extra express to maintain the 2 per hour Sheffield-Manchester fast service.

*Realtimetrains has an early morning ECS taking 15 mins from Chesterfield to Grindleford missing out Sheffield, while normal services via Sheffield are booked in 35 mins.

The saving from missing out Sheffield is indeed around 20min - EMT divert via the south curve sometimes when they are running late.

Possibly the Nottingham-Liverpool could run via Derby, which would be slightly slower but missing Sheffield would still make it faster than now.

There is a Sheffield-Barnsley-Leeds 30min apart from the Nottingham-Leeds, that could perhaps also be extended to Nottingham to fill the Nottingham-Sheffield gap.

 

[HowardGWR]

Firstly, public consultation is a requirement of planning process. If you think it's a waste of time, vote for a government that will change it.

(Intriguingly, it seems much adverse comment from these events has been levelled at Grindleford Loop, not Dore...)

Secondly, The designs for Dore's second platform include consideration of re-instating the third and fourth ones later, because in the current climate they cannot be ruled out.

I didn't think anyone said there should not be consultation. The question was whether it was required in this case, i.e was a p.a. required?

Is the Dore station building still an Indian restaurant?.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Would you have any thoughts about also reopening any of the following closed stations between Sheffield and Chesterfield ?....
Heeley
Millhouses
Beauchief
Unstone
Sheepbridge

3 out of the 5 stations were planned to be reopened in some form as part of the tramline to Dore in 2006, which for some reason was not given the go ahead by the then Labour government.

 

[talltim]

As so little remains of the stations, it might be worth thinking where would be the best locations for any new ones.
Something in the Sheepbridge area would be useful for football traffic to Chesterfield's new stadium.

 

[tbtc]

There's already six passenger trains an hour on the Chesterfield to Sheffield line, most of which are pretty long distance, plus two or three an hour on the Hope Valley line (again, mainly long distance), so I'm not sure what spare capacity there is for (re)opening local stations.

 

[YorkshireBear]

There's already six passenger trains an hour on the Chesterfield to Sheffield line, most of which are pretty long distance, plus two or three an hour on the Hope Valley line (again, mainly long distance), so I'm not sure what spare capacity there is for (re)opening local stations.

Any local stations between Dore and Sheffield will have to wait for 4 tracking and electrification.

 

[Kettledrum]

Any local stations between Dore and Sheffield will have to wait for 4 tracking and electrification.

What's stopping this section being 4-tracked?

Is it simply the money to build the missing tracks,

or is additional land needed?

or is it that even with the money, the timetable wouldn't work?

 

[YorkshireBear]

What's stopping this section being 4-tracked?

Is it simply the money to build the missing tracks,

or is additional land needed?

or is it that even with the money, the timetable wouldn't work?

£££££££

 

[RichmondCommu]

If we're considering re-opening stations between Dore and Sheffield we should also be turning our attention further south to Clay Cross.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Any local stations between Dore and Sheffield will have to wait for 4 tracking and electrification.

Is 4 tracking on the cards?

 

[Kettledrum]

£££££££

Yes - I sort of got that, but ££££££s for the physical construction of the tracks is less than ££££££££s if you have to purchase additional land to build the tracks on.

 

[YorkshireBear]

If we're considering re-opening stations between Dore and Sheffield we should also be turning our attention further south to Clay Cross.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Is 4 tracking on the cards?

I believe as part of the HS2 package with EMU service Dore to Meadowhall. And reopening a few intermediate stations on the slow lines.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes - I sort of got that, but ££££££s for the physical construction of the tracks is less than ££££££££s if you have to purchase additional land to build the tracks on.

Oh sorry okay, the land is there we own it, if you ever travels south out of Sheffield you will see it quite clearly on the west of the alignment.

 

[IKBrunel]

From Dore to Sheffield it looks like there ie wide enough NR property most of the way to fit 4 tracks in, might even use existing bridge decks in Heeley area.

The big challenge would be the narrow section between Tesco on west of line and Sainsburys on east of line in Millhouses area. Even if NR CPOd a few metres from the retailers & put concrete retaining walls in, it still looks tight to me.
I haven't done the measurements, but my hunch is that it would require demolishing anciliary constructions along the edge of one of the stores or running 2 of the tracks on a viaduct above the other for a section. (by anciliary I think from memory ramps/hvac/loading bay). Retailers might welcome an excuse to refurb/expand (in another direction) at that point in life of the store.

Either way 4 track through millhouses looks costly. I suspect the best bcr might be to 4 track most of the way between Dore & Sheffield, but combine the slows onto a bidirectional single track for a short section. Would still be a significant relief of the current bottleneck.