Does East Anglia have too many Mk3's ?

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mralexn

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So today, i had the "joy" of bashing an East Anglia train from London to Norwich,
I travelled in First Class, this was the 1130 Departure,
Walking through the train i noticed there was only about 4 people all of the first class coaches, and standard was only about a quarter full.
Do these sets get very busy durin peak times? or is it nearly always this quiet!

Anyway, let me know your thoughts :)


My question is, if it is always this quiet, why do they not shorten the sets? or give some Mk3s to other Tocs that really need them.
 
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MidnightFlyer

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When I was down in East Anglia a couple of summers ago, as well as last summer, the NRW-LST services seemed fairly busy, they weren't as busy off-peak (but still at good levels), but I think removing coaches would be rather drastic.
 
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transportphoto

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Many of the evening peak trains out of Liverpool Street are standing room only, including the Mk3 sets :smile:
 

mralexn

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so its only really "middle of the day" kinda time they are not busy,
I wish they would spend some money on their rolling stock though, i know this has been said countless times before, but it is looking very very run down and tired.
 

jonb

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Try the 17:00, 17:30, 17:50 departures from Liverpool Street during the week, often stood in the vestibule unless you arrive early!
 

tunster

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The LST-NOR trains get busy after 7pm as they stop additionally at Chelmsford. Also the case when there are problems on the line and the Norwich service gets priority exit out of Liverpool St.
 

NLC1072

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The GEML, unfortunatly is very much a commuter based line, and there isn't much demand in the off peak weekday for services north of Colchester from my experience, but in peak times you are lucky to get a seat on the MK3 stock, and the buffet staff even know their "regular" standees who always stand next to the buffet as it has more space!.
 

jopsuk

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This is why 5-car intercity units similar to 444s (but AC) would be a good idea- enough to run the peak service as all 10-car, but shortened to 5 car off peak (weekdays).
 

Robinson

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This is why 5-car intercity units similar to 444s (but AC) would be a good idea- enough to run the peak service as all 10-car, but shortened to 5 car off peak (weekdays).
I seem to remember I suggested the same thing for the Manchester-Scotland route. The problem seemed to be that equipment used in the 444s is no longer on the production line, or something like that...
 

dosxuk

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I seem to remember I suggested the same thing for the Manchester-Scotland route. The problem seemed to be that equipment used in the 444s is no longer on the production line, or something like that...
I think that when most people suggest AC 444's they actually just mean an AC EMU with doors at the ends of the carriage rather than 1/3 2/3 (like a 350), as opposed to an actual 444.
 

Chris125

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Precisely - combine the door layour of the 444's with the 380/Desiro City body and lower weight, plus the 110mph capability of the 350's, and you have an ideal replacement not just for the Mk3 sets on the GE but other long distance regional services.

Chris
 

andykn

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The 7.55 to Norwich on Mon & Wed mornings usually has about 10 people in the first class K carriage, but on the 17.30 back to London on a Tue I could have coach K to myself.

I'd rather keep the stock we have than pay any more.
 

Yew

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Precisely - combine the door layour of the 444's with the 380/Desiro City body and lower weight, plus the 110mph capability of the 350's, and you have an ideal replacement not just for the Mk3 sets on the GE but other long distance regional services.

Chris
So a 110mph 158 with a pantograph? to be fair a diesel version could be useful for medium distance routes in the north (liverpool - norwich?)
 

dk1

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Norwich trains can get extremelly busy. Off peak 1st class gets busier nowadays with AP tickets which can be cheaper than the standard walk on fare. Anything departing Liverpool St 15.00-20.00 can be full & standing especially on Fridays when the 19.00 (first cheap train) can have over 200 standing. The 19.30 down lost its Chelmsford stop last Decemner for this very reason. Diss & Stowmarket are very well used stations & there is busy commuter/local traffic into Ipswich & Norwich. The quietest trains i have worked lately have still loaded to around 150.

London day out traffic is also very strong from Norfolk/Suffolk. I actually dont know anybody family or friends who chooses anything other than rail for this. National Express run just 9 coaches daily & rarely seem well loaded.
 

Tomonthetrain

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Precisely - combine the door layour of the 444's with the 380/Desiro City body and lower weight, plus the 110mph capability of the 350's, and you have an ideal replacement not just for the Mk3 sets on the GE but other long distance regional services.

Chris
Why not. Just go the whole hog and purchase more Pendelinos!
 

ainsworth74

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Exactly! In my view it’s ludicrous that new intercity stock should be limited to 110mph. We should be looking to increase line speeds and not simply stick with what we have.
Perhaps but on this route the journey time to Norwich is already fairly reasonable but more importantly 125mph would eat up paths for the vital commuter and freight services.
 

dk1

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So today, i had the "joy" of bashing an East Anglia train from London to Norwich,
I travelled in First Class, this was the 1130 Departure,
Walking through the train i noticed there was only about 4 people all of the first class coaches, and standard was only about a quarter full.
Do these sets get very busy durin peak times? or is it nearly always this quiet!

Anyway, let me know your thoughts :)


My question is, if it is always this quiet, why do they not shorten the sets? or give some Mk3s to other Tocs that really need them.
I would imagine the loadings on the 09.00 up that forms this service, would have been very healthy indeed.
 

NLC1072

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This is why 5-car intercity units similar to 444s (but AC) would be a good idea- enough to run the peak service as all 10-car, but shortened to 5 car off peak (weekdays).
They did run 317's for two particular peak time departures and commuters tried to avoid them like the plague!... sometimes it was two 360's that stood in, now they are bumpy on the GEML! Anybody else seem to feel that the 360's give the worst ride quality on the GEML?
 

ainsworth74

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Hearsay- pretty sure that version 3846292 of the IEP plan doesn't actually replace them at all.
It doesn't. IEP is currently intended to replace a number of HSTs on the GWML, all of ECs HSTs and also take over running of London to Cambridge services and that's just about it. The plan for IEP to replace IC225s has been given the boot (thankfully).

They did run 317's for two particular peak time departures and commuters tried to avoid them like the plague!... sometimes it was two 360's that stood in, now they are bumpy on the GEML! Anybody else seem to feel that the 360's give the worst ride quality on the GEML?
317s and 360s don't actually have inter-city style layouts however. I would anticipate that a 444 like replacement would have specified a proper interior (end doors, 2+2 standard and 2+1 first seating layouts, some sort of buffet) for the journey's being undertaken not a commuter layout.
 

F Great Eastern

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They did run 317's for two particular peak time departures and commuters tried to avoid them like the plague!... sometimes it was two 360's that stood in, now they are bumpy on the GEML! Anybody else seem to feel that the 360's give the worst ride quality on the GEML?
I've never had a problem myself, they've always given me pretty much the best ride quality, at least between Ipswich and London and on the Clacton branch, not sure about how bad they are north of that as I've never been on them any further.

The worst vehicles are without a doubt those 321's that came in from Silverlink or wherever it was they are very bumpy and very tired inside.
 

Chris125

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Why not. Just go the whole hog and purchase more Pendelinos!
While im in favour of more (preferably non-tilting) Pendolino's, i was talking about a design for regional for services with 3-6 carriages and corridor connections for working in multiple - a 158 EMU, basically.

With 110mph now looking possible in the 350's without compromising seating in the leading vehicle, they would be ideal for the Great Eastern and allow easier pathing between 125mph services on the ECML, WCML etc.

The 350 upgrade might even pave the way for all future unit designs (at least from Siemens) to be built for 110 in the same way that most recent unit designs have allowed, at least in theory, 100mph.

Chris
 

SprinterMan

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I've never had a problem myself, they've always given me pretty much the best ride quality, at least between Ipswich and London and on the Clacton branch, not sure about how bad they are north of that as I've never been on them any further.

The worst vehicles are without a doubt those 321's that came in from Silverlink or wherever it was they are very bumpy and very tired inside.
IMO, a 317 has a far worse ride than a 360 or 321.
 
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