Does it matter who I buy my season ticket from?

[stut]

It's that time of year again... A slightly terrifying proportion (albeit less than if I had to run a car) of my salary disappears into the coffers of a railway company (FCC for now).

In return, I get a couple of free tickets - recently downgraded from 'any time' to 'off-peak only', and I now need to accompany whoever I give them to. And I have to pay extra for recorded delivery (as opposed to buying it in the station), making the benefit somewhat lessened (and meaning I have to schlep to the sorting office to pick it up...)

I also get Nectar points, but they're about as valuable as keeping a jar of all the pennies you find on the pavement.

Are there any tricks I'm missing here? Can I order it from some other company under better terms? I've always assumed that season ticket perks only apply to season tickets actually valid on the railway you buy them from...

 

[John @ home]

Please tell us which Season Ticket you intend to buy.

 

[stut]

Oh, sorry - annual Biggleswade to London Terminals (not Travelcard).

 

[theageofthetra]

If you buy it at Marylebone you get unlimited weekend travel anywhere with Chiltern.

 

[yorkie]

If you buy it at Marylebone you get unlimited weekend travel anywhere with Chiltern.

If that were a Travelcard, yes.... But it's not, so no.

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/tickets-and-fares/season-tickets/new-customers

Free weekend travel on all routes
When you buy a monthly or longer season ticket or travelcard season ticket, valid from a Chiltern Railways station and worth £150 or more a month or £1,500 or more a year, you get FREE travel at weekends and on Bank Holidays across our entire network (except for the Bicester Village Shuttle Bus). You must buy your ticket from Chiltern Railways to receive this benefit. If your Season Ticket is on an Oyster card you must also have your paper record card to travel free at weekends and Bank Holidays. This offer does not apply on Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you buy it at Marylebone you get unlimited weekend travel anywhere with Chiltern.

Not unless it is valid from a Chiltern Railways station.

If that were a Travelcard, yes.... But it's not, so no.

I checked that with Chiltern customer services when choosing where to buy my outboundary annual Travelcard back in May. They didn't agree that "London Zones 1-6" counted towards that condition, even though there are several Chiltern Railways stations within the boundary. So I got the ticket from London Midland at Hemel, who give you bugger all.

 

[Haywain]

Not unless it is valid from a Chiltern Railways station.

I checked that with Chiltern customer services when choosing where to buy my outboundary annual Travelcard back in May. They didn't agree that "London Zones 1-6" counted towards that condition, even though there are several Chiltern Railways stations within the boundary. So I got the ticket from London Midland at Hemel, who give you bugger all.

In which case you shold have told them that the ticket was for travel to/from West Ruislip - a Chiltern station in zone 6.

 

[Tetchytyke]

In which case you shold have told them that the ticket was for travel to/from West Ruislip - a Chiltern station in zone 6.

I did!

Moot point now, for this year at least, as I bought the ticket from London Midland rather than Chiltern.

 

[yorkie]

I see Chiltern have sneakily changed the wording today:-

Free weekend travel on all routes
When you buy a monthly or longer season ticket or Travelcard season ticket, originating from a Chiltern Railways station, valid on our services, and worth £150 or more a month (or £1,500 or more a year), you get FREE travel at weekends and on Bank Holidays across our entire network (except for the Bicester Village Shuttle Bus). You must buy your ticket from Chiltern Railways to receive this benefit. If your Season Ticket is on an Oyster card you must also have your paper record card to travel free at weekends and Bank Holidays. This offer does not apply on Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

Arctic Troll - as the old rules were in place when you tried to buy your ticket, I suggest you make a complaint to appropriate bodies.

However I still think that the new wording means that if a passenger is wanting to travel from, say, West Ruislip to Biggleswade, it can be argued that you are "originating from a Chiltern Railways station". I know they will deny this, as they will say that the origin always has to be the station outside the London area, with the Travelcard as the destination (and with a Season it makes no difference if your usual destination is specified as the origin) but I don't think a customer should reasonably expected to know that.

Hopefully someone can complain to Passenger Focus, Trading Standards etc. Anyone up for that? Or, as usual, are we all just going to let a rogue TOC get away with lying to us?

 

[island]

Well my annual 1-3 should be over £1500 next time around. Can I qualify for this offer?

 

[GoByThameslink]

A practical point is ticket re-prints when the magnetic strip wears out / gets corrupted and it will no longer open barriers. If you buy the ticket from a TOC who has a ticket office convenient to you, then getting re-prints should be easy and pain free. Certainly I have never had a problem, and I am pretty sure I have had it re-printed at Offices other than the one I bought it from (I travel on the FCC Thameslink route).

There used to be a way to get another TOC to issue a replacement, but I can't find that guidance any more (it used to be on Southeastern's NBTS pages), and the National Rail Conditions of Carriage do not allow for this any more:

If a Season Ticket is damaged, or can no longer be read easily, or no longer works in automatic ticket gates, it will be replaced by the Ticket Seller that sold the original ticket, provided that it is still valid. You will not have to pay an administrative charge. Different arrangements normally apply for the replacement of damaged or defective Smartcards, and these will be made clear to you when you obtain your Smartcard. (My bolding).

 

[yorkie]

Well my annual 1-3 should be over £1500 next time around. Can I qualify for this offer?

Sadly not, as a Zone 1-3 wouldn't be valid (by its own) out of Marylebone, the first stop being in Zone 4.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Arctic Troll - as the old rules were in place when you tried to buy your ticket, I suggest you make a complaint to appropriate bodies.

I shall consider it. But what would I actually be after as an outcome? I don't have a Chiltern Railways season ticket valid to a Chiltern Railways station bought at a Chiltern Railways station. Because of what they told me I chose instead to buy the ticket from London Midland at Hemel Hempstead, for the reasons GoByThameslink listed.

I am surprised that they still mention needing your record card on Oyster. Interpreting the rules as they are now, there are no tickets sold on Oyster that would qualify for the offer.

 

[infobleep]

If you have to return the ticket to the seller, due to it being defective, how do you go about travelling in the mean time?

 

[maniacmartin]

If you have to return the ticket to the seller, due to it being defective, how do you go about travelling in the mean time?

Defective season tickets are replaced on the spot while you wait

 

[CyrusWuff]

I see Chiltern have sneakily changed the wording today:-

Hopefully someone can complain to Passenger Focus, Trading Standards etc. Anyone up for that? Or, as usual, are we all just going to let a rogue TOC get away with lying to us?

Yes...How dare Chiltern only want to give additional benefits to passengers who actually use their services! Anyone would think they're in the business of making money by selling tickets... :roll:

More seriously, I suspect the change in wording may be due to people buying tickets with no Chiltern validity whatsoever from Chiltern stations to try to take advantage of the offer.

 

[ASharpe]

Yes...How dare Chiltern only want to give additional benefits to passengers who actually use their services! Anyone would think they're in the business of making money by selling tickets... :roll:

East coast are quite happy to give additional benefits to people buying tickets for other operators on their website. They make money from it and are happy to reward customers for it.

I suppose it all comes down the cut a retailer takes from selling a season ticket. Anyone know?

 

[Qwerty133]

Yes...How dare Chiltern only want to give additional benefits to passengers who actually use their services! Anyone would think they're in the business of making money by selling tickets... :roll:

More seriously, I suspect the change in wording may be due to people buying tickets with no Chiltern validity whatsoever from Chiltern stations to try to take advantage of the offer.

Just a bit of a co-incidence it happened on exactly the same day as they were tweeted about it isn't it, and Chiltern would get the same amount of money whether the passenger uses their services or not with a travel card, and they do get extra money for selling the tickets.

 

[maniacmartin]

The cut given to the retailer for seasons is (as a percentage) vastly lower than for normal tickets

 

[CyrusWuff]

I suppose it all comes down the cut a retailer takes from selling a season ticket. Anyone know?

The retailer gets 2% commission for a season ticket, spread over the period of validity of same. The breakdown can be found in Schedule 28 of the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement.

The reference to "Settlement Periods" in said schedule is to the railway financial year, with period 1504 ending tomorrow.

 

[bb21]

I do find it a bit cheeky moaning about not getting a benefit not intended to be available.

 

[yorkie]

Yes...How dare Chiltern only want to give additional benefits to passengers who actually use their services! Anyone would think they're in the business of making money by selling tickets... :roll:

Except they now refuse to give this to benefit to Travelcard holders who use their services and also use another operator beyond the Zone 6 boundary!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I do find it a bit cheeky moaning about not getting a benefit not intended to be available.

Who is moaning about not getting a benefit?
How is one meant to determine what is intended?

If you're referring to Arctic Troll, he was entitled to the benefit (based on the wording at that time), he didn't come on here moaning about it at the time, but I wish he had as we could have taken Chiltern to task on it.

If they don't want to give benefits, they should not advertise them!

Passengers are not being cheeky by asking to use an offer that is advertised as being available. Chiltern are being cheeky in this case by changing the offer without notice.

 

[bb21]

I am referring to any potential complaints to Chiltern regarding the wording of their offer. What is there to be gained? I am not convinced that this is the sort of case Passenger Focus would back, nor have any interest in. I could be wrong but I seriously doubt it.

What is intended in this case is fairly obvious to second guess. Why would they offer additional benefits to people who are not going to be using their trains at least on a semi-regular basis and giving them some monetary benefits? Yes, we would probably be right in that Chiltern have no leg to stand on if everything is interpreted literally, but what is taking this further really going to achieve? Chances are that all this would end with Chiltern either withdrawing the whole thing completely, or (more likely) a complete rewording of the terms (yet again) - an example of winning the battle but losing the war.

This is very much unlike fighting against Routeing Guide changes or TOCs sneakily changing restrictions in order to get around fares regulation.

As for Arctic Troll, had he bought from Chiltern he may have a case now, but given that he did not, all talk about it is pointless. All I expect him to receive in response to a complaint is a stock response along the lines of a half-hearted apology and ifs and buts.

 

[infobleep]

Defective season tickets are replaced on the spot while you wait

I have been told by staff working for both London Midland and Southern that I must go back to the company's sold me the season ticket, South West Trains. We're they misinformed?

 

[maniacmartin]

I have been told by staff working for both London Midland and Southern that I must go back to the company's sold me the season ticket, South West Trains. We're they misinformed?

That has not been my experience at other TOCs. (I went back to the issuing TOC)